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Strugling with putting together acceptable Title

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  • Dave Jones
    Hail and well met I have been doing a little research and I have decided on a title but am at a quandry as to how it should be put together. Kagetaka is the
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 1, 2002
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      Hail and well met
      I have been doing a little research and I have decided on a title but
      am at a quandry as to how it should be put together.
      Kagetaka is the name I have chosen,I have found a Kagetake that was
      from the Asakura Clan that was Overan by Oda Nobunaga in 1573.I would
      hoping the Title would roughly translate to Kage(Shadow)- taka(hawk)
      or Hawk from the Shadows.My character would have been from the Nosaka
      Mountains in the Omi region.He probably would have been a Asakura
      Clan Vasal but as Oda has defeated them he is Either Ronin or a Oda
      Vasal.I have thought up some Names but I am not sure if these are
      correct or even offensive.
      Nosaka-no-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk from Nosaka?)
      Omi-no-Kagetaka (Shadow hawk from Omi Region)?
      Asakura-Nosaka-No-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk fom the Nosaka Mountains of
      the Asakura Clan)?
      Any help would be greatly appreciated.
      Domo
      Dave Jones
    • Barbara Nostrand
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Exactly what are you trying to do? Are you inventing a game or trying to write manga? I am a bit confused. Regardless,
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 1, 2002
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        Exactly what are you trying to do? Are you inventing a game or trying
        to write manga? I am a bit confused. Regardless, Kagetaka sounds like
        a real nanori. This is both good and bad. Good if you are trying to
        come up with a real nanori. Bad if you want Shadow Hawk to spring to
        mind in a Japanese context. Shadow in naming generally has a strong
        Buddhist context which is most likely at odds with what you are trying
        to do.

        As for other things. One place where clan affiliation shows up in
        Sengoku period names is in the yobina. The yobina is the middle name
        in three part names used by male Buke (warrior class) of the period.
        If you are interested in a Japanese name, then you should consider
        obtaining a copy of either "Name Construction in Medieval Japan" or
        "Japanese Names and How to Read Them" either by interlibrary loan or
        by purchasing copies. If those books are too formidable, there is
        an introduction to Japanese naming practices in "A Japanese Miscellany"
        in the "Complete Anachronist" series and there are also notes about
        Japanese names posted to the Academy of St. Gabriel web page. If you
        are interested in cultural aspects of naming, then "Japan's Name Culture"
        is a good place to start.
        --

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
        | the trash by my email filters. |
        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      • Ii Saburou
        ... Title is usually used for something like Lord , Minister of the Right , or Left Gate Guards Captain. What it looks like you are looking at is what
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 1, 2002
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          On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Dave Jones wrote:

          > Kagetaka is the name I have chosen,I have found a Kagetake that was
          > from the Asakura Clan that was Overan by Oda Nobunaga in 1573.I would
          > hoping the Title would roughly translate to Kage(Shadow)- taka(hawk)

          'Title' is usually used for something like 'Lord', 'Minister of the
          Right', or 'Left Gate Guards' Captain.' What it looks like you are
          looking at is what is called the 'nanori', the name by which your deeds
          would be known.

          > or Hawk from the Shadows.My character would have been from the Nosaka

          By character, you mean persona? Just some vocabulary differences to try
          and get us all speaking on the same level.

          > Mountains in the Omi region.He probably would have been a Asakura
          > Clan Vasal but as Oda has defeated them he is Either Ronin or a Oda
          > Vasal.I have thought up some Names but I am not sure if these are
          > correct or even offensive.

          I don't notice anything offensive right off the bat. I would really
          suggest looking at the books Solveig pointed out. I'm not sure if this is
          one of the sources that Solveig was pointing out but you might look here:
          http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/Miscellany/Miscellany.html

          Generally, 'Shadow Hawk' does not seem to be the type of name I would
          expect to see--it sounds about as fanciful as it does in English.
          However, there are other 'taka' kanji to choose from such as 'high' or
          'filial'. The only problem is that I am unsure of the implications of
          Kage+ any other choice, and what it could best be used with.

          > Nosaka-no-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk from Nosaka?)
          > Omi-no-Kagetaka (Shadow hawk from Omi Region)?
          > Asakura-Nosaka-No-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk fom the Nosaka Mountains of
          > the Asakura Clan)?

          Are you thinking of having all of these, or are you looking to pick one?
          It would be quite possible to have several different 'names', especially
          when the name is more of a descriptor than a fixed 'name' like we think of
          it (for instance, if we here 'Susan Little' today we don't go looking for
          a smaller person. Likewise, if we hear 'Johnson' we don't go looking for
          someone whose father is named 'John').

          -Ii
        • Dave Jones
          ... was ... would ... (hawk) ... deeds ... Nosaka ... to try ... Oda ... really ... this is ... would ... or ... of ... of ... one? ... especially ... think of
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 3, 2002
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            --- In sca-jml@y..., Ii Saburou <logan@m...> wrote:
            > On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Dave Jones wrote:
            >
            > > Kagetaka is the name I have chosen,I have found a Kagetake that
            was
            > > from the Asakura Clan that was Overan by Oda Nobunaga in 1573.I
            would
            > > hoping the Title would roughly translate to Kage(Shadow)- taka
            (hawk)
            >
            > 'Title' is usually used for something like 'Lord', 'Minister of the
            > Right', or 'Left Gate Guards' Captain.' What it looks like you are
            > looking at is what is called the 'nanori', the name by which your
            deeds
            > would be known.
            >
            > > or Hawk from the Shadows.My character would have been from the
            Nosaka
            >
            > By character, you mean persona? Just some vocabulary differences
            to try
            > and get us all speaking on the same level.
            >
            > > Mountains in the Omi region.He probably would have been a Asakura
            > > Clan Vasal but as Oda has defeated them he is Either Ronin or a
            Oda
            > > Vasal.I have thought up some Names but I am not sure if these are
            > > correct or even offensive.
            >
            > I don't notice anything offensive right off the bat. I would
            really
            > suggest looking at the books Solveig pointed out. I'm not sure if
            this is
            > one of the sources that Solveig was pointing out but you might look
            here:
            > http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/Miscellany/Miscellany.html
            >
            > Generally, 'Shadow Hawk' does not seem to be the type of name I
            would
            > expect to see--it sounds about as fanciful as it does in English.
            > However, there are other 'taka' kanji to choose from such as 'high'
            or
            > 'filial'. The only problem is that I am unsure of the implications
            of
            > Kage+ any other choice, and what it could best be used with.
            >
            > > Nosaka-no-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk from Nosaka?)
            > > Omi-no-Kagetaka (Shadow hawk from Omi Region)?
            > > Asakura-Nosaka-No-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk fom the Nosaka Mountains
            of
            > > the Asakura Clan)?
            >
            > Are you thinking of having all of these, or are you looking to pick
            one?
            > It would be quite possible to have several different 'names',
            especially
            > when the name is more of a descriptor than a fixed 'name' like we
            think of
            > it (for instance, if we here 'Susan Little' today we don't go
            looking for
            > a smaller person. Likewise, if we hear 'Johnson' we don't go
            looking for
            > someone whose father is named 'John').
            >
            > -Ii


            Wow thanks for the help looks like I still have much to learn about
            putting together a personna.I am glad I have found all you helpful
            people.
          • makiwara_no_yetsuko
            ... May I suggest you have a look at the writings of Cariadoc of the Bow? While his chosen area of interest is Middle Eastern, he brings up a lot of excellent
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 3, 2002
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              --- In sca-jml@y..., "Dave Jones" <irish_65@y...> wrote:
              > Wow thanks for the help looks like I still have much to learn about
              > putting together a personna.I am glad I have found all you helpful
              > people.

              May I suggest you have a look at the writings of Cariadoc of the Bow?
              While his chosen area of interest is Middle Eastern, he brings up a
              lot of excellent ideas which may be of help:
              http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Articles_about_P
              ersona.pdf

              Makiwara
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