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Archery

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  • Park McKellop
    function SetDomain(d) { document.domain = d; }The lastest Primitive Archer, Winter 2002 ed. has a couple articles on Japanese archery. One talks about the
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 14, 2002
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      function SetDomain(d) { document.domain = d; }The lastest Primitive Archer, Winter 2002 ed. has a couple articles on Japanese archery. One talks about the differences between modern kyudo, and "period" styles and equipment, and the other has pics of some bows being made by the Yumi folks.

      Alcyoneus



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    • Alcyoneus
      Are there any particular types of Japanese shoots that would be very adaptable to SCA competition? I d like to have something better than the standard target
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 2, 2004
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        Are there any particular types of Japanese shoots that would be very
        adaptable to SCA competition? I'd like to have something better than the
        standard target shoot for March of the Rising Sun.

        I thought about shooting dogs, but they are too expensive from the pound
        for the number we'd need. I thought about borrowing some, and using
        blunts, but no one would loan me their pets. ;-)

        Seriously, any ideas?

        Alcyoneus

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      • scadragon@juno.com
        Just use peasants. The survivors can gather your arrows for you := Tochiro ... ________________________________________________________________ The best thing
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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          Just use peasants.
          The survivors can gather your arrows for you :=>

          Tochiro





          > I thought about shooting dogs, but they are too expensive from the
          > pound
          > for the number we'd need. I thought about borrowing some, and using
          >
          > blunts, but no one would loan me their pets. ;-)
          >


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        • John Mooers
          Live targets are problematic. As an alternative to feeding, cleaning, vetrinary expenses, and avoiding PETA, I suggest this: smurfs. . . . That s right,
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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            Live targets are problematic. As an alternative to feeding, cleaning, vetrinary expenses, and avoiding PETA, I suggest this: smurfs.
            .
            .
            .
            That's right, smurfs. At Pennsic 17 I watched archers and a cannon crew compete for the honor of spitting, slicing, and exploding a little blue meanie. While this may get some people's rocks off, as an alternative to real dogs I believe using stuffed animals and cheep RC cars would meet our needs nicely. All those goofy Valentine's Day doggies could serve a useful purpose when strapped to the roof of an RC car. Drape the car with smoe kydex or other "armor" and then fabric to reduce the mundane look and arrow impact and then turn it loose for the archers to shoot at.
            No strings to worry about.
            No eithical problems for the autocrat or marshal to fend off.
            No "predictable" target patterns. Archers could take turns "driving" and shooting.
            Blunts not required, but could be used if the stuffed creature were only velcroed on to the large tire equiped RC vehicle.

            Just a thought.

            Date no Genshiro Toshinobu
            Yama Kaminari Ryu
            Warranted Smurf Hunter

            Alcyoneus <squire009@...> wrote:
            Are there any particular types of Japanese shoots that would be very
            adaptable to SCA competition? I'd like to have something better than the
            standard target shoot for March of the Rising Sun.

            I thought about shooting dogs, but they are too expensive from the pound
            for the number we'd need. I thought about borrowing some, and using
            blunts, but no one would loan me their pets. ;-)

            Seriously, any ideas?

            Alcyoneus

            ----------


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            Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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          • otagiri_tatsuzo
            ... than the ... Fans seem to be an appropriate target as well as being an excuse to retell the tale of Nasu no Yoichi. You might want to shoot some blunts at
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Alcyoneus <squire009@b...> wrote:
              > Are there any particular types of Japanese shoots that would be very
              > adaptable to SCA competition? I'd like to have something better
              than the
              > standard target shoot for March of the Rising Sun.
              >


              Fans seem to be an appropriate target as well as being an excuse to
              retell the tale of Nasu no Yoichi.

              You might want to shoot some blunts at someone as well. Yadomejutsu,
              the art of arrow blocking, is not that hard when the archer is
              shooting bird blunts from a 35# bow. Arm the target with a fencers
              mask, hockey gloves, and a bokken.

              --otagiri
            • Zach Schneider
              You could also try baloons. On a windy day they make good moving targets. Yoshida ... _________________________________________________________________ Find
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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                You could also try baloons. On a windy day they make good moving targets.
                Yoshida


                >From: Alcyoneus <squire009@...>
                >Reply-To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                >To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [SCA-JML] Archery
                >Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 23:39:00 -0600
                >
                >Are there any particular types of Japanese shoots that would be very
                >adaptable to SCA competition? I'd like to have something better than the
                >standard target shoot for March of the Rising Sun.
                >
                >I thought about shooting dogs, but they are too expensive from the pound
                >for the number we'd need. I thought about borrowing some, and using
                >blunts, but no one would loan me their pets. ;-)
                >
                >Seriously, any ideas?
                >
                >Alcyoneus
                >
                > ----------
                >
                >
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                >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

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              • S. J. Hootman
                ... Those peasants would be safe in front of me. Lots of them left to gather arrows for me, unless they were standing to the left or right sides of the target.
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, scadragon@j... wrote:
                  > Just use peasants.
                  > The survivors can gather your arrows for you :=>
                  >
                  > Tochiro

                  Those peasants would be safe in front of me. Lots of them left to
                  gather arrows for me, unless they were standing to the left or right
                  sides of the target. Enough left to carry me to my oxcart. And help
                  me dress. And lots of other things servants are good for doing.

                  Hmm. . .

                  Now, where would I find these peasants of which you speak?

                  Fujiwara no Kitsume
                • Solveig
                  Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... Forget about PETA, they are the least of your worries. The ASPCA will probably have you arrested. Any number of
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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                    Noble Cousins!

                    Greetings from Solveig!

                    >Live targets are problematic. As an alternative to feeding,
                    >cleaning, vetrinary expenses, and avoiding PETA, I suggest this:
                    >smurfs.

                    Forget about PETA, they are the least of your worries. The ASPCA will
                    probably have you arrested. Any number of period activities such as
                    cock fights are illegal.
                    --

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar

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                    | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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                  • Alcyoneus
                    I d thought about the RC cars, but wasn t sure how practical that would be. I like the fan target idea (I like the cars too), we ve had rennaisance smurf
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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                      I'd thought about the RC cars, but wasn't sure how practical that would
                      be. I like the fan target idea (I like the cars too), we've had
                      rennaisance smurf targets in the past, but wanted to avoid more
                      smurfs&barnies. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, anyone? ;-)

                      Finding the peasants is problematic since we have a presumtion that we are
                      all 'minor nobility', but at least if you can find them, no one gets as
                      attached to them as they do pets (they are kind of like lawyers in that
                      regard ;-) ). The Southern Barbarians have created a real problem, even
                      among the peasants. What, with all those barbarian ideas about 'humanism'
                      and the 'worth of the individual' it's getting hard to have a good
                      road-side slaying anymore. Couple that with inflation, and life just isn't
                      as cheap as it used to be!!! :-( Uh, oh, I think I'm starting to channel
                      Achi no Bunka or something!

                      It really just hasn't been the same since Tomoe Gozen started that "I am
                      woman, see my sword!" business, Yamato has been going steadily downhill
                      since then. Remember when samurai were samurai, and Daimyo were
                      Daimyo? We could really use a Daimyo like Hideyoshi again. Ah, those were
                      Jidais!

                      :-)))))))

                      Alcyoneus/Kondei Ichimusai Niten

                      At 06:36 AM 2/3/2004 -0800, you wrote:

                      >Live targets are problematic. As an alternative to feeding, cleaning,
                      >vetrinary expenses, and avoiding PETA, I suggest this: smurfs.
                      >.
                      >.
                      >.
                      >That's right, smurfs. At Pennsic 17 I watched archers and a cannon crew
                      >compete for the honor of spitting, slicing, and exploding a little blue
                      >meanie. While this may get some people's rocks off, as an alternative to
                      >real dogs I believe using stuffed animals and cheep RC cars would meet our
                      >needs nicely. All those goofy Valentine's Day doggies could serve a
                      >useful purpose when strapped to the roof of an RC car. Drape the car with
                      >smoe kydex or other "armor" and then fabric to reduce the mundane look and
                      >arrow impact and then turn it loose for the archers to shoot at.
                      > No strings to worry about.
                      > No eithical problems for the autocrat or marshal to fend off.
                      > No "predictable" target patterns. Archers could take turns "driving"
                      > and shooting.
                      > Blunts not required, but could be used if the stuffed creature were
                      > only velcroed on to the large tire equiped RC vehicle.
                      >
                      >Just a thought.
                      >
                      >Date no Genshiro Toshinobu
                      >Yama Kaminari Ryu
                      >Warranted Smurf Hunter

                      ----------


                      ---
                      Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                      Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                      Version: 6.0.574 / Virus Database: 364 - Release Date: 1/29/2004


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ellen.m.davis@att.net
                      ... I ve always liked the idea of using stuffed Pokemon. Gotta shoot em all! -Aine
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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                        > I'd thought about the RC cars, but wasn't sure how practical that would
                        > be. I like the fan target idea (I like the cars too), we've had
                        > rennaisance smurf targets in the past, but wanted to avoid more
                        > smurfs&barnies. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, anyone? ;-)
                        >

                        I've always liked the idea of using stuffed Pokemon. Gotta shoot 'em all!

                        -Aine
                      • ekoogler1@comcast.net
                        Well, one year, we did use stuffed poodles a la Gary Larson. It was a real hoot! Kiri
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 3, 2004
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                          Well, one year, we did use stuffed poodles a la Gary Larson. It was a real hoot!

                          Kiri
                        • Michelle Touketto
                          Hi, hope you guys aren t sick of me and my questions, yet! Does anyone do archery? Anthony s been trying to find Japanese bow designs of the appropriate
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                            Hi, hope you guys aren't sick of me and my questions, yet!

                            Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow designs
                            of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
                            the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out with
                            using. So, are the longbows all they used? And anyone know a resource for
                            acquiring an appropriate beginner bow?

                            Along with that. Where do you guys get your swords? While he has a lot of
                            sword sites that he likes, I'm not sure how many of them are appropriate,
                            nor what the reasonable price range is, since they seem to range from
                            questionably cheap to laughably expensive!

                            Thanks (again),
                            Michelle Touketto

                            --
                            "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • richard johnson
                            i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is very, very limited. They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                              i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is very,
                              very limited.
                              They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than the
                              lower. This means that the upper long limb was thinner than the lower.
                              Archery in Japan was very much like the tea ceremony.. a simple matter take
                              to the extreme until it became art!

                              Swords are simplier.
                              Do you want a wall-hanger that looks good on your hip or a real sword that
                              works?
                              Bud-K mail-order or any swap meet will sell you a bunch of stainless steel
                              swords that look good but are useless. if you do this, i would suggest that
                              you take a file and remove the edge. Dull stainless swords are much safer.

                              If you want a GOOD sword, we all have our favorite companies.
                              Hanwei
                              Cheness
                              Oni Forge
                              Last Legend... etc.
                              The only real differnce between these good mid-range swords ($200-500) is
                              who likes which company. Those four are my favorite, other people here will
                              have a similar list that they like.
                              Masahiro and Musahsi sell cheaper swords that are not as good but still
                              nice blades.
                              Hanwei is noted for making Naginatas, arrowheads, yari, etc in addition to
                              swords. Paul Chen really took advantage of China's shift into capitalism.

                              Now as for hand-made swords... Honestly, the Japanese folded their swords
                              for one reason. They had really crappy steel and had to figure out a way to
                              make bad steel into good swords.
                              Modern machine-made swords are much better than anything the ancient Sword
                              masters could do.
                              So if you want a hand-made sword (I have one from the 19th century) I think
                              it is purely an asthetic thing. i would never play with my hand-made
                              sword! And of the dozen best swordmakers in the world today, probably half
                              are Americans.

                              Last Legend makes really good cutting swords that are computer designed to
                              cut tatasmi mats and pool noodles. I cut 2-liter bottles as it is cheaper.
                              And i have a Hanwei Practical Pro katana (designed by a California Kendo
                              school) that I really do not like at all. $400 + shipping <g>. Some guy
                              wanted to buy it for his 6 year old kid and i refused to sell it to him.

                              So decide on what you want... then look for a blade that meets that need.

                              Now i get to sit back and listen to the other people on this list teach us
                              both about Archery. yay!

                              On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...
                              > wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > Hi, hope you guys aren't sick of me and my questions, yet!
                              >
                              > Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow designs
                              > of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
                              > the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out
                              > with
                              > using. So, are the longbows all they used? And anyone know a resource for
                              > acquiring an appropriate beginner bow?
                              >
                              > Along with that. Where do you guys get your swords? While he has a lot of
                              > sword sites that he likes, I'm not sure how many of them are appropriate,
                              > nor what the reasonable price range is, since they seem to range from
                              > questionably cheap to laughably expensive!
                              >
                              > Thanks (again),
                              > Michelle Touketto
                              >
                              > --
                              > "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              --
                              Rick Johnson
                              http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                              "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security
                              will soon find that they have neither."


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • LJonthebay
                              ... He should search on kyudo and yumi. Yumi are the Japanese longbow. They are asymmetric, are shot somewhat differently than Western bows and are
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...> wrote:
                                > Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow designs
                                > of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
                                > the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out with
                                > using. So, are the longbows all they used?

                                He should search on "kyudo" and "yumi." Yumi are the Japanese longbow. They are asymmetric, are shot somewhat differently than Western bows and are extremely expensive, even for beginner bows. Instruction in kyudo is likewise an issue, particularly if there are no practitioners in your area.

                                If he has not done archery previously, I would suggest he get in touch with your local archery marshal and get started with loaner gear to see if he likes shooting and acquires some basic skills before attempting to trade up.

                                I cannot answer regarding swords. That's what retainers are for. ;-D Is he planning on using it merely as a costume accessory or does he intend to eventually get into iaido or other martial arts with it?

                                Saionji no Hana
                                West Kingdom
                              • Audrey Bergeron-Morin
                                FYI, there was a Japanese bow (with very long upper limb) for sale last time we went to Arcs Élite... so it is possible to find some. Kyudo bows amre made
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                  FYI, there was a Japanese bow (with very long upper limb) for sale
                                  last time we went to Arcs Élite... so it is possible to find some.

                                  Kyudo bows amre made this way because they are meant to be used while kneeling.

                                  They also had much smaller bows to use while hunting, or at war, or
                                  horseback riding, that are less prestigious but probably much cheaper
                                  and easier to carry around; closer in shape and form to a Chinese or
                                  Mongolian bows.

                                  For images you can check here
                                  http://www.japaneseweapons.net/yumiya/yumi/english.htm

                                  On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:17 AM, richard johnson
                                  <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                                  > i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is very,
                                  > very limited.
                                  > They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than the
                                  > lower.  This means that the upper long limb was thinner than the lower.
                                  > Archery in Japan was very much like the tea ceremony.. a simple matter take
                                  > to the extreme until it became art!
                                  >
                                • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                                  I ve been using a yumi for about five years now. I don t know if it s the only bow used in Japan, but it s the only one I ve seen. It s not difficult, but it
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                    I've been using a yumi for about five years now. I don't know if it's the
                                    only bow used in Japan, but it's the only one I've seen. It's not difficult,
                                    but it does take more practice than normal bows, both due to its
                                    asymmetrical design and the quirky thumb grip it uses. There are plenty of
                                    tutorials online for how to do it. Don't scoff at the last step; oddly, it
                                    is the most important.

                                    I get my supplies at http://kyudo.com/asahiam.html

                                    It takes a while to get a bow, as they order them from Japan only a few
                                    times a year, but the product is well worth the wait. They have yumi in
                                    fiberglass, graphite, and of course, bamboo. I recommend one of the first
                                    two, as the bamboo takes a lot of extra care. They have all sorts of
                                    different poundage, from practice to practical. Also, get synthetic strings
                                    (and extra ones), as the hemp ones don't react to weather well. Make sure
                                    you get a tsurumaki, as well. Not only does it add a layer of realism to
                                    your garb, they're damned useful when your string breaks.

                                    If you're just looking for something to practice your form on, you want a
                                    gomuyumi, which is just a rubber band on a small pole. Depending on your
                                    endowment, you may also need a muneate, to keep your chest protected from
                                    string strike. Finally, because of the odd thumb grip, you'll need an
                                    archery glove with a thumb. I just use a regular archery glove in
                                    conjunction with an ippongake, as kyudo gloves are damned expensive.

                                    Live, Love, Learn!
                                    -Chiba
                                  • Chibasama Ryúichiro
                                    While they are very well used kneeling, the design of the yumi was for use on a horseback. Live, Love, Learn! -Chiba ... From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                      While they are very well used kneeling, the design of the yumi was for use
                                      on a horseback.

                                      Live, Love, Learn!
                                      -Chiba


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                      Audrey Bergeron-Morin
                                      Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:24 AM
                                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Archery

                                      FYI, there was a Japanese bow (with very long upper limb) for sale
                                      last time we went to Arcs Élite... so it is possible to find some.

                                      Kyudo bows amre made this way because they are meant to be used while
                                      kneeling.

                                      They also had much smaller bows to use while hunting, or at war, or
                                      horseback riding, that are less prestigious but probably much cheaper
                                      and easier to carry around; closer in shape and form to a Chinese or
                                      Mongolian bows.

                                      For images you can check here
                                      http://www.japaneseweapons.net/yumiya/yumi/english.htm

                                      On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:17 AM, richard johnson
                                      <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
                                      > i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is
                                      very,
                                      > very limited.
                                      > They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than the
                                      > lower.  This means that the upper long limb was thinner than the lower.
                                      > Archery in Japan was very much like the tea ceremony.. a simple matter
                                      take
                                      > to the extreme until it became art!
                                      >


                                      ------------------------------------

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                                    • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                                      Art, yes, but with more spiritual undertones. Kyudo is, today, nearly exclusively a Zen practice 8) Live, Love, Learn! -Chiba ... From:
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                        Art, yes, but with more spiritual undertones. Kyudo is, today, nearly
                                        exclusively a Zen practice 8)

                                        Live, Love, Learn!
                                        -Chiba


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                        richard johnson
                                        Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:18 AM
                                        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Archery

                                        i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is very,
                                        very limited.
                                        They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than the
                                        lower. This means that the upper long limb was thinner than the lower.
                                        Archery in Japan was very much like the tea ceremony.. a simple matter take
                                        to the extreme until it became art!

                                        Swords are simplier.
                                        Do you want a wall-hanger that looks good on your hip or a real sword that
                                        works?
                                        Bud-K mail-order or any swap meet will sell you a bunch of stainless steel
                                        swords that look good but are useless. if you do this, i would suggest that
                                        you take a file and remove the edge. Dull stainless swords are much safer.

                                        If you want a GOOD sword, we all have our favorite companies.
                                        Hanwei
                                        Cheness
                                        Oni Forge
                                        Last Legend... etc.
                                        The only real differnce between these good mid-range swords ($200-500) is
                                        who likes which company. Those four are my favorite, other people here will
                                        have a similar list that they like.
                                        Masahiro and Musahsi sell cheaper swords that are not as good but still
                                        nice blades.
                                        Hanwei is noted for making Naginatas, arrowheads, yari, etc in addition to
                                        swords. Paul Chen really took advantage of China's shift into capitalism.

                                        Now as for hand-made swords... Honestly, the Japanese folded their swords
                                        for one reason. They had really crappy steel and had to figure out a way to
                                        make bad steel into good swords.
                                        Modern machine-made swords are much better than anything the ancient Sword
                                        masters could do.
                                        So if you want a hand-made sword (I have one from the 19th century) I think
                                        it is purely an asthetic thing. i would never play with my hand-made
                                        sword! And of the dozen best swordmakers in the world today, probably half
                                        are Americans.

                                        Last Legend makes really good cutting swords that are computer designed to
                                        cut tatasmi mats and pool noodles. I cut 2-liter bottles as it is cheaper.
                                        And i have a Hanwei Practical Pro katana (designed by a California Kendo
                                        school) that I really do not like at all. $400 + shipping <g>. Some guy
                                        wanted to buy it for his 6 year old kid and i refused to sell it to him.

                                        So decide on what you want... then look for a blade that meets that need.

                                        Now i get to sit back and listen to the other people on this list teach us
                                        both about Archery. yay!

                                        On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...
                                        > wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hi, hope you guys aren't sick of me and my questions, yet!
                                        >
                                        > Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow designs
                                        > of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
                                        > the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out
                                        > with
                                        > using. So, are the longbows all they used? And anyone know a resource for
                                        > acquiring an appropriate beginner bow?
                                        >
                                        > Along with that. Where do you guys get your swords? While he has a lot of
                                        > sword sites that he likes, I'm not sure how many of them are appropriate,
                                        > nor what the reasonable price range is, since they seem to range from
                                        > questionably cheap to laughably expensive!
                                        >
                                        > Thanks (again),
                                        > Michelle Touketto
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >



                                        --
                                        Rick Johnson
                                        http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                                        "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security
                                        will soon find that they have neither."


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                        ------------------------------------

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                                      • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                                        I disagree a bit. Euro archery and kyudo are different in almost every way (different stance, different eye , different grip, different string grip,
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                          I disagree a bit. Euro archery and kyudo are different in almost every way
                                          (different stance, different 'eye', different grip, different string grip,
                                          different release, different side of the bow, different rest, and the whole
                                          'bow spins in your hand' thing is just weird), the experience doesn't
                                          translate well, and forgetting euro-bow habits makes the process longer and
                                          more awkward. While yumi are rather expensive (400-800), there are plenty
                                          of cheap training options for kyudo that don't require teachers or bows (the
                                          aforementioned gomuyumi).

                                          Personally, I just got the bow, did lots of reading and video watching, and
                                          got to it. It's not so difficult that there's any reasonable chance you
                                          won't figure it out 8)

                                          Besides, it looks FANTASTIC when you do it right 8)

                                          Live, Love, Learn!
                                          -Chiba


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                          LJonthebay
                                          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:22 AM
                                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Archery

                                          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow
                                          designs
                                          > of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
                                          > the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out
                                          with
                                          > using. So, are the longbows all they used?

                                          He should search on "kyudo" and "yumi." Yumi are the Japanese longbow. They
                                          are asymmetric, are shot somewhat differently than Western bows and are
                                          extremely expensive, even for beginner bows. Instruction in kyudo is
                                          likewise an issue, particularly if there are no practitioners in your area.

                                          If he has not done archery previously, I would suggest he get in touch with
                                          your local archery marshal and get started with loaner gear to see if he
                                          likes shooting and acquires some basic skills before attempting to trade up.


                                          I cannot answer regarding swords. That's what retainers are for. ;-D Is he
                                          planning on using it merely as a costume accessory or does he intend to
                                          eventually get into iaido or other martial arts with it?

                                          Saionji no Hana
                                          West Kingdom



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                                        • Steve Richardson
                                          A quick note on the swords mentioned in the first reply. Last Legend is out of business. However 3 katana from Last Legend have been sold on ebay in the past
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                            A quick note on the swords mentioned in the first reply. Last Legend is out of business. However 3 katana from Last Legend have been sold on ebay in the past 60 days usually at about half price of a new blade.
                                          • LJonthebay
                                            Ten demerits for improper use of the word somewhat. Saionji no Standing In The Corner
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                              Ten demerits for improper use of the word "somewhat."

                                              Saionji no Standing In The Corner
                                            • Michelle Touketto
                                              With time and resource constraints, I think he s going to be purchasing a sword before a bow. There is a kyudo dojo about an hour or a little less from where
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                                With time and resource constraints, I think he's going to be purchasing a
                                                sword before a bow. There is a kyudo dojo about an hour or a little less
                                                from where we live, so it's something to think about in the future. He is
                                                very interested in a number of Japanese marital arts, including iaido. But
                                                he also works full time, goes to school part time, he's step-father to my
                                                older two children (9 and 8), as well as one toddler we have together, and
                                                we're expecting our second little girl together at the end of May. I know
                                                my thought would be to get one that could be multi-functional, which means
                                                non-edged, I believe. I think he's currently looking at something called
                                                the raptor series, so that he can get an edged blade and a non-edged blade
                                                for around the price of the one really "cool" sword he also wants. Or not,
                                                now I'm hearing something about those not having a hamon line.

                                                I also managed to post pictures of the garb I made us, constructive
                                                criticism appreciated before I work on anything for Spring/Summer! Of note,
                                                I think I'm going to make my next set with an inch or so wider panels as the
                                                bottom didn't seem to wrap around as far as I wanted it to do.

                                                Thanks for being patient with all of my questions! Going to be acquiring
                                                books to study soon, just need tax money and/or financial aid extras to show
                                                up!

                                                Sincerely,
                                                Michelle/Gwenhwyvar
                                                Barony of Sternfeld
                                                Middle Kingdom

                                                On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:52 PM, LJonthebay <wodeford@...> wrote:

                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Ten demerits for improper use of the word "somewhat."
                                                >
                                                > Saionji no Standing In The Corner
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >



                                                --
                                                "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                                                You re lucky, I had to learn on my own 8) Live, Love, Learn! -Chiba ... From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michelle
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                                  You're lucky, I had to learn on my own 8)

                                                  Live, Love, Learn!
                                                  -Chiba


                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                                  Michelle Touketto
                                                  Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:37 PM
                                                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Archery

                                                  With time and resource constraints, I think he's going to be purchasing a
                                                  sword before a bow. There is a kyudo dojo about an hour or a little less
                                                  from where we live, so it's something to think about in the future. He is
                                                  very interested in a number of Japanese marital arts, including iaido. But
                                                  he also works full time, goes to school part time, he's step-father to my
                                                  older two children (9 and 8), as well as one toddler we have together, and
                                                  we're expecting our second little girl together at the end of May. I know
                                                  my thought would be to get one that could be multi-functional, which means
                                                  non-edged, I believe. I think he's currently looking at something called
                                                  the raptor series, so that he can get an edged blade and a non-edged blade
                                                  for around the price of the one really "cool" sword he also wants. Or not,
                                                  now I'm hearing something about those not having a hamon line.

                                                  I also managed to post pictures of the garb I made us, constructive
                                                  criticism appreciated before I work on anything for Spring/Summer! Of note,
                                                  I think I'm going to make my next set with an inch or so wider panels as the
                                                  bottom didn't seem to wrap around as far as I wanted it to do.

                                                  Thanks for being patient with all of my questions! Going to be acquiring
                                                  books to study soon, just need tax money and/or financial aid extras to show
                                                  up!

                                                  Sincerely,
                                                  Michelle/Gwenhwyvar
                                                  Barony of Sternfeld
                                                  Middle Kingdom

                                                  On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:52 PM, LJonthebay <wodeford@...> wrote:

                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Ten demerits for improper use of the word "somewhat."
                                                  >
                                                  > Saionji no Standing In The Corner
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  --
                                                  "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                  ------------------------------------

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                                                • Eilionora
                                                  Lady Gwenhwyvar, I m usually just a lurker on this list, but I wanted to speak up here. I am a current practitioner of modern kyudo (been at it for ~2.5 years
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                                    Lady Gwenhwyvar,

                                                    I'm usually just a lurker on this list, but I wanted to speak up here. I am a current practitioner of modern kyudo (been at it for ~2.5 years now), and I wanted to share a few thoughts:

                                                    1) I think your decision to wait on the archery stuff is a good one. Not because I want to discourage Anthony from learning the art (quite the opposite, because I know we love to see new faces in our dojo!), but it's a very very different form of archery and NOT easy to learn quickly at all (sorry for the caps, but I had to stress that). I would suggest (if possible) having him visit the dojo near you--let's see... Middle Kingdom... that would be the Indiana Kyudo Renmei, I believe--and try it out a few times before beginning to purchase equipment and such. It's not an instant-gratification activity, that's for sure, and requires lots of patience.

                                                    2) I--sadly--can't say I've done much research as to how archery styles looked "in period" (there are some pictures of equipment, but the paintings of practitioners leave something to be desired), but we do know that some form of it was used throughout our period of interest. That said--and here I'm going to sort of contradict what I said in #1, ha--I'd caution against using the art in its current form in SCA battles. It's evolved to the point at which it's absolutely useless for battle... it's a lot of ceremony and one shot can take a whole minute to complete. Not so good if you're trying to take out the other guy in a hurry! I had intended to do more research on this myself at some point, but I haven't gotten around to it yet, unfortunately. Maybe someone else on this list has some resources that mention archery practices in period?

                                                    3) Speaking from experience, knowing how to shoot a "regular", non-Japanese bow can actually hinder learning kyudo. So it's better if Anthony has little or no experience shooting Western-style bows, because that way he won't have to un-learn what he has learned (like I did... and like I am still doing!).

                                                    If you have any more questions, or would like help getting in touch with your somewhat-local kyudojo (my dojo is also an hour away from me, too, so you're not alone!), please let me know offline. And that goes for anyone else curious about kyudo! I'd be happy to share what I can if anyone else is looking to get involved.

                                                    Cheers,
                                                    Eilionora (Elizabeth)



                                                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > With time and resource constraints, I think he's going to be purchasing a
                                                    > sword before a bow. There is a kyudo dojo about an hour or a little less
                                                    > from where we live, so it's something to think about in the future. He is
                                                    > very interested in a number of Japanese marital arts, including iaido. But
                                                    > he also works full time, goes to school part time, he's step-father to my
                                                    > older two children (9 and 8), as well as one toddler we have together, and
                                                    > we're expecting our second little girl together at the end of May. I know
                                                    > my thought would be to get one that could be multi-functional, which means
                                                    > non-edged, I believe. I think he's currently looking at something called
                                                    > the raptor series, so that he can get an edged blade and a non-edged blade
                                                    > for around the price of the one really "cool" sword he also wants. Or not,
                                                    > now I'm hearing something about those not having a hamon line.
                                                    >
                                                    > I also managed to post pictures of the garb I made us, constructive
                                                    > criticism appreciated before I work on anything for Spring/Summer! Of note,
                                                    > I think I'm going to make my next set with an inch or so wider panels as the
                                                    > bottom didn't seem to wrap around as far as I wanted it to do.
                                                    >
                                                    > Thanks for being patient with all of my questions! Going to be acquiring
                                                    > books to study soon, just need tax money and/or financial aid extras to show
                                                    > up!
                                                    >
                                                    > Sincerely,
                                                    > Michelle/Gwenhwyvar
                                                    > Barony of Sternfeld
                                                    > Middle Kingdom
                                                    >
                                                  • Michelle Touketto
                                                    MODERATOR NOTE: This message was originally top posted over two preceding messages. They have been removed as they do not require repetition. Thank you.
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                                                      MODERATOR NOTE: This message was originally "top posted" over two preceding messages. They have been removed as they do not require repetition. Thank you. Saionji no Hana, Pacific Time Zone
                                                      POSTER'S ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS:

                                                      As a note, my email address is one of long standing and not a reference to an SCA title. I signed up for the group with the wrong account. Usually, I remember to use the other one to avoid seeming like I'm presuming on a title.

                                                      Thank you for the information, and yes, you are correct about the name of the dojo. Lol, as much as he loves the concepts behind many Japanese activities, he is not a generally patient person! And I noted from a few sites that kyudo seems to be very focused on Zen teachings, and that there was one site that mentioned another archery form called kyujutsu or kyujitsu.

                                                      Anyone know anything about that form, and it's potential use in the SCA?

                                                      Gwenhwyvar
                                                      Barony of Sternfeld
                                                      Middle Kingdom
                                                    • Erin Kelly
                                                      If you are in range of Pennsic, there s a vendor there called Yumi who specializes in Japanese archery. Also, many of my colleagues in Clan YamaKaminari have
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Feb 1, 2011
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                                                        If you are in range of Pennsic, there's a vendor there called Yumi who
                                                        specializes in Japanese archery. Also, many of my colleagues in Clan
                                                        YamaKaminari have experience with Japanese archery, both in target
                                                        shooting and in SCA combat - stop by our camp if you make it to
                                                        Pennsic and we can find someone to talk with you about it.

                                                        ERIN
                                                      • David Holt
                                                        I ve done ZNKR Kyudo (at the Indiana Kyudo Renmei), Heki Ryu Bishu Chikurin-ha Kyudo, and modern western-style sport archery. I still practice them all, but am
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Feb 1, 2011
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                                                          I've done ZNKR Kyudo (at the Indiana Kyudo Renmei), Heki Ryu Bishu Chikurin-ha Kyudo, and modern western-style sport archery. I still practice them all, but am not currently taking instruction in any. I did enjoy my training in Indiana, but it was a long drive from Chicago. For someone with not much patience, it might be a good way to learn and practice patience.

                                                          Kyujutsu is theoretically more combat oriented than Kyudo, but it's not a hard and fast rule. With no enemies to shoot at for the past 400 years, all the -jutsu arts have become very similar to the -do arts. I have been working on removing the ritual from the Kyudo I know to see how it might work as a martial art.

                                                          I disagree that western and Japanese archery are so different. So many of the basics are the same (relax your shoulders and hands, use your back instead of your arms, be consistent in your movements, don't hurry your movements, etc.). The differences are in the details (use your fingers or your thumb, arrow on the left or on the right, pull to the midbody or full arm length, pull from the front or from above, etc.). If I shoot both western and Japanese on the same day, it takes me a moment to get used to each one, but then I can easily switch back and forth. I particularly don't like the modern Kyudo glove, though. I wear a thick leather gardening glove now. I wouldn't have to remove it if I had to switch to my sword and if I decided to remove it, it would take 2 seconds instead of 2 minutes. I hear the Yabusame gloves are much softer, thinner, and more flexible, so I might see if I can find one of those the next time I'm in Japan.

                                                          But I can't speak to how any of it works for historical accuracy or SCA purposes.
                                                        • chagin1
                                                          ... This I doubt. Archeological evidence shows asymmetrical bows buried in graves before the horse was introduced into Japan. The design predates the horse.
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Feb 6, 2011
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                                                            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Chibasama Ryúichiro <chiba@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > While they are very well used kneeling, the design of the yumi was for use
                                                            > on a horseback.
                                                            >
                                                            > Live, Love, Learn!
                                                            > -Chiba

                                                            This I doubt. Archeological evidence shows asymmetrical bows buried in graves before the horse was introduced into Japan. The design predates the horse.

                                                            Takanofuji Jutte
                                                          • JL Badgley
                                                            ... Can you come up with dates and cites? I d be interested in what you have, because that isn t a claim I recall seeing before. From what I can see, the
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Feb 6, 2011
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                                                              On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:40 AM, chagin1 <chagin1@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > This I doubt.  Archeological evidence shows asymmetrical bows buried in graves before the horse was introduced into Japan.  The design predates the horse.
                                                              >
                                                              Can you come up with dates and cites? I'd be interested in what you
                                                              have, because that isn't a claim I recall seeing before.

                                                              From what I can see, the assymetric bow occurs across central Eurasia,
                                                              in one form or another--I'm not sure what the oldest dates of bows and
                                                              horses are, though. I've also seen some theories that it has more to
                                                              do with power generation than it has to do with horseback riding.


                                                              -Ii
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