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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: waraji

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  • Ron Martino
    ... Ii-sama, he said he s using a Mac. -- It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression that will determine our fate. There must be no limit on
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 9, 2002
      Ii Saburou wrote:
      >
      > .DOC is the MS Word extension. If you have MS Word it should be able to
      > open it. (Made with MS Word 2000--I can try to save it under an older
      > version if you would like)
      >
      > -Ii

      Ii-sama, he said he's using a Mac.

      --

      It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression that will
      determine our fate. There must be no limit on the range of temperate
      discussion, no limits on thought. No subject must be taboo. No censor
      must preside at our assemblies.
      William O. Douglas

      yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com
    • Bill Fornshell
      OK, I know them just as straw sandals. My Japanese is about 0 . Is this the type that come out between your toes and to the back toward your ankle or the
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 9, 2002
        OK, I know them just as straw sandals. My Japanese is
        about "0". Is this the type that come out between
        your toes and to the back toward your ankle or the
        kind that tie up around your leg? There is a site that
        shows them or maybe sells them. It shouldn't be to
        hard to make something that looks like them. I had
        though about using the sole of a "today sandal" but
        need to look at a closeup of the rope stuff they use
        to tie it around the leg and them decide how to make
        that part. Or am I thinking about something different
        than you are. I looked at one of Anthony Bryants
        sites just now and what he called Waraji looked like
        the first type I talked about. I get a Japanese Tea
        Ceremony magazine each month called Nagomi and the
        last issue (August) was all about sandals. New ones
        and some older type. It has some good pictures of the
        straw type. I have a few pictures of sandals but they
        are small. I can put them in the photos section.

        And I would like a pdf copy of the Waraji.Doc if
        anyone has it. You can just email it to me if it
        isn't to much trouble. Thanks. Bill
        bfornshell@...

        --- Ii Saburou <logan@...> wrote:
        > Oh. 'Waraji'='straw sandal'.
        >
        > -Ii
        >




        =====
        Bill Fornshell
        Founder and President
        Cold Mountain Chanoyu
        (Tea School for the New Millennium)
        School of One
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColdMtnChado

        __________________________________________________
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      • Ii Saburou
        ... Shouldn t be a problem--MS Word is pretty portable these days and MOST of the word processor programs I ve dealt with have been at least able to read that
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
          On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Ron Martino wrote:

          > Ii Saburou wrote:
          > >
          > > .DOC is the MS Word extension. If you have MS Word it should be able to
          > > open it. (Made with MS Word 2000--I can try to save it under an older
          > > version if you would like)
          > >
          > > -Ii
          >
          > Ii-sama, he said he's using a Mac.

          Shouldn't be a problem--MS Word is pretty portable these days and MOST of
          the word processor programs I've dealt with have been at least able to
          read that format.

          -Ii
        • Ii Saburou
          ... I learned how to make the flip-flop variety--just a single loop like zori or geta--and then adapted the pattern for the more secure variety that go
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
            On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Bill Fornshell wrote:

            > OK, I know them just as straw sandals. My Japanese is
            > about "0". Is this the type that come out between
            > your toes and to the back toward your ankle or the
            > kind that tie up around your leg? There is a site that
            > shows them or maybe sells them. It shouldn't be to
            > hard to make something that looks like them. I had
            > though about using the sole of a "today sandal" but
            > need to look at a closeup of the rope stuff they use
            > to tie it around the leg and them decide how to make
            > that part. Or am I thinking about something different

            I learned how to make the 'flip-flop' variety--just a single loop like
            zori or geta--and then adapted the pattern for the more secure variety
            that go around the ankle (for which there are different methods of tying,
            I've found). I've been meaning to try a pair that come out the back as
            the blown out ones Kuji-dono gave me do.

            The rope stuff is straw rope. Rice straw, to be specific, and you are
            looking at the leafy part rather than the stalk, in my experience. Raffia
            can work as a substitute, but real rice is nice. Depending on what coast
            you are on there appears to be places that sell the rice straw--if you
            cultivate rice you end up with a lot of it and they are actually having
            problems getting rid of the stuff since it is hardly used by anyone.

            Alternatively you can use other types of rope--I've had good experience
            with cotton cord and even nylon--to make the sandals as well.

            > than you are. I looked at one of Anthony Bryants
            > sites just now and what he called Waraji looked like
            > the first type I talked about. I get a Japanese Tea
            > Ceremony magazine each month called Nagomi and the
            > last issue (August) was all about sandals. New ones
            > and some older type. It has some good pictures of the
            > straw type. I have a few pictures of sandals but they
            > are small. I can put them in the photos section.
            >
            > And I would like a pdf copy of the Waraji.Doc if
            > anyone has it. You can just email it to me if it
            > isn't to much trouble. Thanks. Bill
            > bfornshell@...

            I do not have a pdf copy, unfortunately. I can get it to you in many
            formats, but not that.

            -Ii
          • Ron Martino
            ... True, up-to-date Macs /should/ be able to handle MS Word documents (emphasis on should ), but a dyed-in-the-silk Mac user isn t going to use a Microsoft
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
              > Shouldn't be a problem--MS Word is pretty portable these days and MOST of
              > the word processor programs I've dealt with have been at least able to
              > read that format.
              >
              > -Ii

              True, up-to-date Macs /should/ be able to handle MS Word documents
              (emphasis on 'should'), but a dyed-in-the-silk Mac user isn't going to
              use a Microsoft product if there's any way to avoid it. Computer bigotry
              runs deep...

              Yumitori
              --

              It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression that will
              determine our fate. There must be no limit on the range of temperate
              discussion, no limits on thought. No subject must be taboo. No censor
              must preside at our assemblies.
              William O. Douglas

              yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com
            • michael A
              here is a link of a sight in japanese witha good pic of them being made. i thought it might go well alongside the diagram you had for the cord going around the
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                here is a link of a sight in japanese witha good pic
                of them being made. i thought it might go well
                alongside the diagram you had for the cord going
                around the toes
                www.soratoumi.com/river/ ryuiki/fugo.htm



                =====
                kiyohara matsugu yoshiaki
                shire of vanished wood
                midlands
                midrealm

                __________________________________________________
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              • michael A
                see even children can make them http://www.miyazaki-c.ed.jp/gokase-h/topic/waraji/ ===== kiyohara matsugu yoshiaki shire of vanished wood midlands midrealm
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                  see even children can make them

                  http://www.miyazaki-c.ed.jp/gokase-h/topic/waraji/



                  =====
                  kiyohara matsugu yoshiaki
                  shire of vanished wood
                  midlands
                  midrealm

                  __________________________________________________
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                  http://faith.yahoo.com
                • Grim Shieldsson
                  ... Given the extensions it s a Word Turdlet. ... ===== Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows) Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf Barbarian Freehold Alliance The
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                    --- Bill Fornshell <bfornshell@...> wrote:
                    > Hi, What type of document is WARAJI.DOC ? I have a Mac G4

                    Given the extensions it's a Word Turdlet.

                    > and can't open your file. I downloaded Acrobat Reader thinking
                    > that would help, but it didn't. Thanks
                    >
                    > .--- In sca-jml@y..., Ii Saburou <logan@m...> wrote:
                    > > My own notes are up in the files section under WARAJI.DOC. I
                    > haven't
                    > > found too much about it online, unfortunately; I would love to
                    > see what
                    > > you find.
                    > >
                    > > -Ii
                    > >
                    > > On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, michael A wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > im putting together a last minute class for a demo
                    > > > this saturday. i make the style waraji kuji has
                    > > > taught, but id like to have on hand as much
                    > > > information and variations of construction as posible.
                    > > > i was wondering if the list could direct me to and
                    > > > sites, books, or other inforamation on different ways
                    > > > to make waraji.
                    > > > thanks
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > =====
                    > > > kiyohara matsugu yoshiaki
                    > > > shire of vanished wood
                    > > > midlands
                    > > > midrealm
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > > > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                    > > > http://faith.yahoo.com
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@y...
                    > > >
                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >


                    =====
                    Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                    Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                    Barbarian Freehold Alliance
                    "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."
                    --Plutarch

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                    http://faith.yahoo.com
                  • Grim Shieldsson
                    ... THen it s probably the latest MS Word format, which of course isn t supported by your software. I hate it when people put things up in proprietary formats
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                      --- Bill Fornshell <bfornshell@...> wrote:
                      > I have a Mac and have something called Apple Works, WP
                      > etc that should let me open a Microsoft .DOC file. It
                      > doesn't. I just called my tech support and they can't

                      THen it's probably the latest MS Word format, which of course isn't
                      supported by your software.


                      I hate it when people put things up in proprietary formats thinking
                      everyone uses the same thing. We don't. I know the MS Word has a save
                      as HTML feature... it's for the web would be helpful.

                      > help me. I will call Apple tomorrow when they are
                      > opened and see how they think it works. I just didn't
                      > know what the word Waraji ment. Thanks. Bill
                      >
                      >
                      > Anthony Thompson <ajt526@...> wrote:
                      > > A .doc file is always (with a few minor exceptions)
                      > > a Microsoft Word
                      > > Document.
                      > >
                      > > Kagesue
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > =====
                      > Bill Fornshell
                      > Founder and President
                      > Cold Mountain Chanoyu
                      > (Tea School for the New Millennium)
                      > School of One
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColdMtnChado
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                      > http://faith.yahoo.com
                      >


                      =====
                      Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                      Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                      Barbarian Freehold Alliance
                      "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."
                      --Plutarch

                      __________________________________________________
                      Do you Yahoo!?
                      Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                      http://faith.yahoo.com
                    • Grim Shieldsson
                      ... How about as HTML? putting it on the web after all..... Granted MS Word to HTML generates sucky html.... but hey... it s better then Word format!!!! ...
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                        --- Ii Saburou <logan@...> wrote:
                        > .DOC is the MS Word extension. If you have MS Word it should be able
                        > to
                        > open it. (Made with MS Word 2000--I can try to save it under an older
                        >
                        > version if you would like)
                        >

                        How about as HTML? putting it on the web after all.....

                        Granted MS Word to HTML generates sucky html.... but hey... it's better
                        then Word format!!!!

                        > -Ii
                        >
                        > On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Bill Fornshell wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hi, What type of document is WARAJI.DOC ? I have a Mac G4
                        > > and can't open your file. I downloaded Acrobat Reader thinking
                        > > that would help, but it didn't. Thanks
                        > >
                        > > .--- In sca-jml@y..., Ii Saburou <logan@m...> wrote:
                        > > > My own notes are up in the files section under WARAJI.DOC. I
                        > > haven't
                        > > > found too much about it online, unfortunately; I would love to
                        > > see what
                        > > > you find.
                        > > >
                        > > > -Ii
                        > > >
                        > > > On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, michael A wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > im putting together a last minute class for a demo
                        > > > > this saturday. i make the style waraji kuji has
                        > > > > taught, but id like to have on hand as much
                        > > > > information and variations of construction as posible.
                        > > > > i was wondering if the list could direct me to and
                        > > > > sites, books, or other inforamation on different ways
                        > > > > to make waraji.
                        > > > > thanks
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > =====
                        > > > > kiyohara matsugu yoshiaki
                        > > > > shire of vanished wood
                        > > > > midlands
                        > > > > midrealm
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > > > > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                        > > > > http://faith.yahoo.com
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@y...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >


                        =====
                        Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                        Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                        Barbarian Freehold Alliance
                        "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."
                        --Plutarch

                        __________________________________________________
                        Do you Yahoo!?
                        Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                        http://faith.yahoo.com
                      • Grim Shieldsson
                        ... MOST is not all. HTML. It s the web. HTML. HTML is good. Yes this is a hot button. I hate when people put stuff up on the web and think Well, MOST
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                          --- Ii Saburou <logan@...> wrote:
                          > On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Ron Martino wrote:
                          >
                          > > Ii Saburou wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > .DOC is the MS Word extension. If you have MS Word it should be
                          > able to
                          > > > open it. (Made with MS Word 2000--I can try to save it under an
                          > older
                          > > > version if you would like)
                          > > >
                          > > > -Ii
                          > >
                          > > Ii-sama, he said he's using a Mac.
                          >
                          > Shouldn't be a problem--MS Word is pretty portable these days and
                          > MOST of
                          > the word processor programs I've dealt with have been at least able
                          > to
                          > read that format.

                          MOST is not all. HTML. It's the web. HTML. HTML is good.

                          Yes this is a hot button. I hate when people put stuff up on the web
                          and think "Well, MOST people can read it"

                          The standard is NOT MicroSoft.


                          =====
                          Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                          Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                          Barbarian Freehold Alliance
                          "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."
                          --Plutarch

                          __________________________________________________
                          Do you Yahoo!?
                          Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                          http://faith.yahoo.com
                        • Ii Saburou
                          ... Fine, then get Linux and get something that can handle MS Word docs without being Word ;) I do realize there are still compatibility issues out there.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                            On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Ron Martino wrote:

                            >
                            > > Shouldn't be a problem--MS Word is pretty portable these days and MOST of
                            > > the word processor programs I've dealt with have been at least able to
                            > > read that format.
                            > >
                            > > -Ii
                            >
                            > True, up-to-date Macs /should/ be able to handle MS Word documents
                            > (emphasis on 'should'), but a dyed-in-the-silk Mac user isn't going to
                            > use a Microsoft product if there's any way to avoid it. Computer bigotry
                            > runs deep...

                            Fine, then get Linux and get something that can handle MS Word docs
                            without being Word ;)

                            I do realize there are still compatibility issues out there. Thanks to
                            Erin-dono for posting a pdf version.

                            -Ii
                          • Jamie Norwood
                            ... Gomen, my friends, but I must reply to this. It may be a hot button for you, and I know it is one for me, so I hesitate to post, but I feel I must. I will
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                              On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 03:23:28PM -0700, Grim Shieldsson wrote:
                              > MOST is not all. HTML. It's the web. HTML. HTML is good.
                              >
                              > Yes this is a hot button. I hate when people put stuff up on the web
                              > and think "Well, MOST people can read it"
                              >
                              > The standard is NOT MicroSoft.

                              Gomen, my friends, but I must reply to this. It may be a hot button for you,
                              and I know it is one for me, so I hesitate to post, but I feel I must.

                              I will preface this by saying I have no great love for Microsoft. I feel
                              most of their products are shoddy, ill-tested, and marketed with such
                              underhanded practices as to be abhorrent. That said...

                              I believe you do a great disservice to the people who work hard to give
                              us these materials. They deserve better than to pour their effort into
                              helping us all in this, to be told basically 'Well, it's good, but since
                              you used Word, it's worthless'.

                              EVERY operating system has free applications that will read and write even
                              the most current of Microsoft documents. Is it .the. standard? No! But it
                              is certainly .a. standard, and one the fvast majority of the world chooses
                              to use.

                              The HTML Word produces is also, IMHO, .not. better than posting a .doc. It
                              is shoddy, non-compliant, bloated code that will be MUCH larger than the
                              actual doc file.

                              Someone has been nice enough to post a .pdf, and I bow my head to them in
                              respect. However, to ever imply that what someone did isn't good enough
                              because you don't like the format and can't be bothered to find a way to
                              read it is the height of arrogance and ingratitude.

                              You don't like MS. That's nice. Neither do I. Yet be it on Windows, Linux,
                              FreeBSD, or even a Mac, I have never, ever had a problem getting a free,
                              non-MS application that would read it. Yes, it may take some effort, but
                              the people who bring us these helpful files deserve for us to be willing
                              to do the work to read them. If you don't like it, that's fine, but at
                              least have the respect to be quiet about it.

                              Just MHO,

                              Yamada no Mitsuyoshi

                              Jamie


                              > =====
                              > Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                            • Bill Fornshell
                              Hi, Since I started all this DOC file type??? discussion, let me say that I have HAD several PC s over the years and they do make up about 90 plus percent of
                              Message 14 of 24 , Oct 10, 2002
                                Hi, Since I started all this DOC file type???
                                discussion, let me say that I have HAD several PC's
                                over the years and they do make up about 90 plus
                                percent of the market. I want to thank all who have
                                taken some time to reply to this subject. I love the
                                Mac and have had one since 1990. They are great,
                                except for some internet related things. That problem
                                is being fixed slowly. Off the internet I don't think
                                you can beat them. For many years I used Word Perfect
                                both on the PC and then on the Mac. It would convert
                                most anything in the WP world PC to Mac to PC so I
                                could use it. Several years ago it seemed to go away.
                                When I got a new G4 a year ago I also bought Apple
                                Works, this was said to convert MS Word Doc's to Mac.
                                It has never done it for me. I became interested in
                                SCA about 2 months ago. I found that most of the tons
                                of DOC files out there were MS Word files. I
                                downloaded Acrobat Reader and thought that would work.
                                Seems there is something called a PDF file and the
                                Acrobat works find on that type. In looking at all the
                                material that has been put on SCA related sites it is
                                very clear that a lot of people have spent lots of
                                time making information available to all us new folks.
                                I want to thank all of you for that. One of the
                                thoughts I live by is "don't bit the hand that feeds
                                you".

                                When the word Waraji was used I looked to see what it
                                meant. I knew what the straw sandals were but didn't
                                know the Japanese word for them. I wanted to try and
                                make some. I have been able to open the file in PDF
                                format, have looked at the web site's that have been
                                posted and have copied all the pictures from those
                                sites. If the Japanese kids can do it, I sure must be
                                able to make my own. I will make my first pair
                                following this groups file Doc "how to" and see how I
                                do. I may have to make several to get it right.
                                Thanks . Bill



                                --- Jamie Norwood <mistwolf@...> wrote:
                                > On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 03:23:28PM -0700, Grim
                                > Shieldsson wrote:
                                > > MOST is not all. HTML. It's the web. HTML.
                                > HTML is good.
                                > >
                                > > Yes this is a hot button. I hate when people put
                                > stuff up on the web
                                > > and think "Well, MOST people can read it"
                                > >
                                > > The standard is NOT MicroSoft.
                                >
                                > Gomen, my friends, but I must reply to this. It may
                                > be a hot button for you,
                                > and I know it is one for me, so I hesitate to post,
                                > but I feel I must.
                                >
                                > I will preface this by saying I have no great love
                                > for Microsoft. I feel
                                > most of their products are shoddy, ill-tested, and
                                > marketed with such
                                > underhanded practices as to be abhorrent. That
                                > said...
                                >
                                > I believe you do a great disservice to the people
                                > who work hard to give
                                > us these materials. They deserve better than to pour
                                > their effort into
                                > helping us all in this, to be told basically 'Well,
                                > it's good, but since
                                > you used Word, it's worthless'.
                                >
                                > EVERY operating system has free applications that
                                > will read and write even
                                > the most current of Microsoft documents. Is it .the.
                                > standard? No! But it
                                > is certainly .a. standard, and one the fvast
                                > majority of the world chooses
                                > to use.
                                >
                                > The HTML Word produces is also, IMHO, .not. better
                                > than posting a .doc. It
                                > is shoddy, non-compliant, bloated code that will be
                                > MUCH larger than the
                                > actual doc file.
                                >
                                > Someone has been nice enough to post a .pdf, and I
                                > bow my head to them in
                                > respect. However, to ever imply that what someone
                                > did isn't good enough
                                > because you don't like the format and can't be
                                > bothered to find a way to
                                > read it is the height of arrogance and ingratitude.
                                >
                                > You don't like MS. That's nice. Neither do I. Yet be
                                > it on Windows, Linux,
                                > FreeBSD, or even a Mac, I have never, ever had a
                                > problem getting a free,
                                > non-MS application that would read it. Yes, it may
                                > take some effort, but
                                > the people who bring us these helpful files deserve
                                > for us to be willing
                                > to do the work to read them. If you don't like it,
                                > that's fine, but at
                                > least have the respect to be quiet about it.
                                >
                                > Just MHO,
                                >
                                > Yamada no Mitsuyoshi
                                >
                                > Jamie
                                >
                                >
                                > > =====
                                > > Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                                >


                                =====
                                Bill Fornshell
                                Founder and President
                                Cold Mountain Chanoyu
                                (Tea School for the New Millennium)
                                School of One
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColdMtnChado

                                __________________________________________________
                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
                                http://faith.yahoo.com
                              • Anthony Thompson
                                YAY!! A rational human being. Kagesue ... From: Jamie Norwood To: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 6:52 PM
                                Message 15 of 24 , Oct 11, 2002
                                  YAY!! A rational human being.

                                  Kagesue

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Jamie Norwood" <mistwolf@...>
                                  To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 6:52 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: waraji


                                  > On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 03:23:28PM -0700, Grim Shieldsson wrote:
                                  > > MOST is not all. HTML. It's the web. HTML. HTML is good.
                                  > >
                                  > > Yes this is a hot button. I hate when people put stuff up on the web
                                  > > and think "Well, MOST people can read it"
                                  > >
                                  > > The standard is NOT MicroSoft.
                                  >
                                  > Gomen, my friends, but I must reply to this. It may be a hot button for
                                  you,
                                  > and I know it is one for me, so I hesitate to post, but I feel I must.
                                  >
                                  > I will preface this by saying I have no great love for Microsoft. I feel
                                  > most of their products are shoddy, ill-tested, and marketed with such
                                  > underhanded practices as to be abhorrent. That said...
                                  >
                                  > I believe you do a great disservice to the people who work hard to give
                                  > us these materials. They deserve better than to pour their effort into
                                  > helping us all in this, to be told basically 'Well, it's good, but since
                                  > you used Word, it's worthless'.
                                  >
                                  > EVERY operating system has free applications that will read and write even
                                  > the most current of Microsoft documents. Is it .the. standard? No! But it
                                  > is certainly .a. standard, and one the fvast majority of the world chooses
                                  > to use.
                                  >
                                  > The HTML Word produces is also, IMHO, .not. better than posting a .doc. It
                                  > is shoddy, non-compliant, bloated code that will be MUCH larger than the
                                  > actual doc file.
                                  >
                                  > Someone has been nice enough to post a .pdf, and I bow my head to them in
                                  > respect. However, to ever imply that what someone did isn't good enough
                                  > because you don't like the format and can't be bothered to find a way to
                                  > read it is the height of arrogance and ingratitude.
                                  >
                                  > You don't like MS. That's nice. Neither do I. Yet be it on Windows, Linux,
                                  > FreeBSD, or even a Mac, I have never, ever had a problem getting a free,
                                  > non-MS application that would read it. Yes, it may take some effort, but
                                  > the people who bring us these helpful files deserve for us to be willing
                                  > to do the work to read them. If you don't like it, that's fine, but at
                                  > least have the respect to be quiet about it.
                                  >
                                  > Just MHO,
                                  >
                                  > Yamada no Mitsuyoshi
                                  >
                                  > Jamie
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > =====
                                  > > Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                                  >
                                  >
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