Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-JML] Cold weather clothing

Expand Messages
  • kujika@aol.com
    have a look at this http://www.saberdesigns.cc/textiles.htm
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
    • Kevin
      In Missoula. I am a student at UM. Kuro ... anyway. ... time ... earlier
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        In Missoula. I am a student at UM.
        Kuro


        --- In sca-jml@y..., "big_ska_daddy" <joe_sarah1@m...> wrote:
        > Where about's in Montana are you? I am also located in Montana but
        > not active in the sca at this time. Just thought it would be great
        > to network with another in this area. Damn that cold weather
        anyway.
        >
        > I too am interested in any examples of historically accurate cold
        > weather clothing if it exists. Would be nice to stay warm this
        time
        > of year while in "character".
        >
        > Joe
        >
        > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Kevin " <shadow4549@y...> wrote:
        > > Konnichi-wa,
        > > Due to the fact that Montana (Northern Artemesia) is cold
        earlier
        > > (we're already getting snow mied with rain in the vallies) and
        > later
        > > than a lot of other places I was wondering if were any places
        > where
        > > I can find out what period cold weather clothing was and how to
        > make
        > > it. Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.
        > >
        > > Minamoto Genkuro Tanekage
      • Ii Saburou
        ... My guess is because it depends, as with all modern martial arts, on why you are studying. The need for learning how to hunt and fight with a bow has
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:

          > I know this will rankle many "Kyudo Purists" and people stuck on
          > modern tradition, but I am wondering why there is so much
          > obsession of rules, as opposed to practical experience, and the
          > actual functionality of the bow, beyond the zen aspect of it.

          My guess is because it depends, as with all modern martial arts, on why
          you are studying. The need for learning how to hunt and fight with a bow
          has disappeared. Form, discipline, and the spiritual aspects have
          remained.

          As I've learned, though, the target aspects aren't entirely gone. Your
          shots should hit specific points on the targets, according to my teacher.

          > My question to the group is "have any members experimented
          > with potentially real uses of the yumi, as opposed to six months
          > of training with a rubberband..." (rubberbands, while usefull in
          > modern times, were not period..I cannot see a period Samurai
          > training in war torn times that long before learning to loose an
          > arrow at an enemy)

          It was my belief that using rubberbands was mainly due to factors such as
          cost of yumi to train with; plus, it is something that can be used in most
          modern situations. I have watched the kyudo class I am now joining, and
          the teacher seems to be of the opinion that you should use the bow fairly
          quickly--I think he is only using the gomu-yumi to make sure that people
          have enough knowledge they aren't going to screw up the bow, themselves,
          or the arrows (all of which can be rather costly to fix, from the prices
          I've seen). Not sure, but I'll ask him about this when I get a chance.

          -Ii
        • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
          Ii-dono, I thank you for your input. I have gotten feedback from others as well privately, and I think you all have valuable opinions. I agree that the real
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 3, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Ii-dono,
            I thank you for your input. I have gotten feedback from others as
            well privately, and I think you all have valuable opinions. I agree
            that the real need for hitting soldiers with Ya is non-existant,
            especially considdering the bland (but still as fun as fun can be)
            combat archery rules the SCA currently uses. I just get frustrated
            when I hear almost religious overtones from people who
            worship the modern "arts" without realizing (or at least voicing)
            the origins that the arts were based on. I am sure real samurai
            understood the need for training, as do we modern
            recreationists...I have no desire to break my bows (wonderfull
            Yumi <the bowmaker> creations) and think that safety is
            paramount, both with regards to the shooter, and those around
            the shooter. I just think that there is more room for a person to
            learn how to shoot by listening to the bow...
            If we "listen" as we shoot...we will learn a grea deal.

            Date

            --(...and you are right, my friend...these toys can get real
            expensive... )
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... It s better to watch as others shoot. One of the reasons I stress people should learn kyudo before buying a yumi is that Japanese bows do not work the
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 3, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:

              > Ii-dono,
              > I thank you for your input. I have gotten feedback from others as
              > well privately, and I think you all have valuable opinions. I agree
              > that the real need for hitting soldiers with Ya is non-existant,
              > especially considdering the bland (but still as fun as fun can be)
              > combat archery rules the SCA currently uses. I just get frustrated
              > when I hear almost religious overtones from people who
              > worship the modern "arts" without realizing (or at least voicing)
              > the origins that the arts were based on. I am sure real samurai
              > understood the need for training, as do we modern
              > recreationists...I have no desire to break my bows (wonderfull
              > Yumi <the bowmaker> creations) and think that safety is
              > paramount, both with regards to the shooter, and those around
              > the shooter. I just think that there is more room for a person to
              > learn how to shoot by listening to the bow...
              > If we "listen" as we shoot...we will learn a grea deal.

              It's better to "watch" as others shoot. One of the reasons I stress people
              should learn kyudo before buying a yumi is that Japanese bows do not work
              the same way western ones do. They aren't held the same way, arrows aren't
              nocked the same way, they aren't drawn the same way, and they don't release
              the same way.

              In historical Japan, people only ever *saw* and *used* yumi, so there was no
              problem with someone picking one up wrong and using it wrong. Here, we have
              years of Robin Hood movies and Westerns to unlearn. The moves are completely
              different. People in our culture are not naturally inclined to use one
              properly, and without some instruction, won't know how.

              Does it matter? Not necessarily. You can possibly pick up a yumi, load it
              over the left (Western style) and release with a three-fingered grip and hit
              the bullseye. But you can also possibly win an SCA fight by just picking up
              the rattan and clubbing your foe like a baby seal. You'll still succeed in
              doing what you want, but you'll have no finesse, no style, and no panache,
              and you'll be no closer to grokking what we're trying to recreate because
              there's more to Japanese archery than the bow.

              That's why I tell people to learn how to use a Japanese bow in a proper
              Japanese setting. Once you know what you're doing, or supposed to be doing,
              you can abbreviate as much as you want or eliminate as much as you want. But
              at least you'll be doing so from a position of knowing what you should be
              doing.

              Did Japanese archers in combat function differently than in practice back at
              home? Almost certainly. Always works that way in combat, regardless of the
              technology.

              Look at the Civil War or Rev War infantryman. There's a whole drill, with
              multiple steps, involved in loading and firing their weapon. This takes
              time. But on the field of battle, everything has to go quicker, and some
              steps get compressed or omitted -- but still they had the steps, and they
              knew what they were omitting and why (e.g., the most common -- sticking the
              ramrod into the ground instead of returning it to its place along the stock
              of the weapon) in the interests of expediency. But they *knew* what they
              were doing. They had trained, for long hours, to develop speed and skill
              with the proper forms, so that any simplification would be able to flow due
              to familiarity with their weapon and its use.

              In point of fact, when Japanese warriors were at home practicing, they did
              it *right*, they took the time to *learn* how to do it. Only when you know
              what you're doing do you start messing around doing things like speed or
              distance shooting.

              You seem to be suggesting one should start running before even learning to
              crawl. Am I misreading this?

              Effingham
            • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
              Master Effingham, ... even learning to ... I agree with what you say, especially the info we westerners need to unlearn , but I am certaintly not suggesting
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 3, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Master Effingham,
                >
                > You seem to be suggesting one should start running before
                even learning to
                > crawl. Am I misreading this?
                >
                > Effingham

                I agree with what you say, especially the info we westerners
                need to "unlearn", but I am certaintly not suggesting one goes
                headlong into firing without any training...I think there might have
                been a minor mis-read... :-)
                Date
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... Ah, good. ... Wouldn t be the first time. I m so buried in that damned otogizoshi that I m having trouble with modern English these days. Effingham
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 3, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie wrote:

                  > Master Effingham,
                  > >
                  > > You seem to be suggesting one should start running before
                  > even learning to
                  > > crawl. Am I misreading this?
                  > >
                  > > Effingham
                  >
                  > I agree with what you say, especially the info we westerners
                  > need to "unlearn", but I am certaintly not suggesting one goes
                  > headlong into firing without any training...

                  Ah, good. <G>

                  > I think there might have
                  > been a minor mis-read... :-)

                  Wouldn't be the first time. I'm so buried in that damned otogizoshi that I'm
                  having trouble with modern English these days. <G>

                  Effingham
                • Lloyd, Eddie
                  Wouldn t be the first time. I m so buried in that damned otogizoshi that I m having trouble with modern English these days. Effingham Modern English was a
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 3, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Wouldn't be the first time. I'm so buried in that damned otogizoshi that I'm
                    having trouble with modern English these days. <G>

                    Effingham


                    Modern English was a really good band, although I'm sick to death of hearing
                    "Melt with you" on the 80's station.


                    ;)

                    -Eddie







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Anthony J. Bryant
                    ... You re a very sick man. Effingham
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 3, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      "Lloyd, Eddie" wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Wouldn't be the first time. I'm so buried in that damned otogizoshi that I'm
                      > having trouble with modern English these days. <G>
                      >
                      > Effingham
                      >
                      >
                      > Modern English was a really good band, although I'm sick to death of hearing
                      > "Melt with you" on the 80's station.
                      >

                      You're a very sick man. <GGG>

                      Effingham
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.