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Ketteki-no-ho questions

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  • Ii Saburou
    Has anyone out there played with the Ketteki-no-Ho? I m considering doing one, but I have no direct pattern, only pictures and patterns from other sources, so
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 7, 2002
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      Has anyone out there played with the Ketteki-no-Ho? I'm considering doing
      one, but I have no direct pattern, only pictures and patterns from other
      sources, so I'm making some deductions.

      First of all, the sleeves seem to be in the manner of a hoeki-no-ho or
      noshi--I assume that they are attached more substantially than those of
      the kariginu, since it is a more formal garment. Likewise, it appears to
      be two widths of fabric wide, rather than just one.

      It appears to be bloused for the 'pigeon-breast' effect, but is the neck
      on the back of the garment such as on the noshi, or is it on the front,
      like a suikan? I assume the former, but am unsure.

      Finally, there is a kyo (train) on the ketteki-no-ho I've seen. It
      appears to be as long as the kyo on the shitagasane which makes me assume
      that it would be of an appropriate length relative to the rank of the
      wearer. Since I am an AoA, no other titles or 'Alphabet Soup', according
      to Effingham's chart I would be in the upper 8th rank. If I use that
      chart, then I looked at kyo lengths, I notice several things.

      First, there is no length for 8th rank until Late 13th Century, where
      there is a mark of 3.5 feet for Dep't. Chiefs and Controllers. This,
      first of all, makes me wonder if I should even try for the Ketteki-no-ho
      at the moment, or if there is a better piece of 'court garb' to use. Or
      are there different rules for the Ketteki-no-ho?

      Finally, on the issue of color, I see that 'Koki hanada' is the color for
      8th ranked personages, so I'm thinking of using a Jacquard acid dye #622
      'Sapphire Blue' to color organza silk for the ho.

      Any suggestions, comments, etc., will be helpful. I'll try to put the
      patterns up online when I figure them out( along with the Pennsic class
      stuff... I keep neglecting to do that. Honest, I'll try to get that done
      this weekend).

      -Ii
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... I ve got some diagrams worked out for the EK court at last year s Pennsic. The guards all wore kachie, which is essentially a ketteki no ho worn for a
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 8, 2002
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        Ii Saburou wrote:

        > Has anyone out there played with the Ketteki-no-Ho? I'm considering doing
        > one, but I have no direct pattern, only pictures and patterns from other
        > sources, so I'm making some deductions.
        >

        I've got some diagrams worked out for the EK court at last year's Pennsic.
        The guards all wore kachie, which is essentially a ketteki no ho worn for a
        specific function. I'll put them into the patterns section in the files at
        the SCA-JML homepage.

        >
        > First of all, the sleeves seem to be in the manner of a hoeki-no-ho or
        > noshi--I assume that they are attached more substantially than those of
        > the kariginu, since it is a more formal garment. Likewise, it appears to
        > be two widths of fabric wide, rather than just one.
        >

        Indeed. It's basically a hoeki-no-ho from the shoulders until you reach the
        waist, at which point the thing just continues open the full length of the
        fabric.

        >
        > It appears to be bloused for the 'pigeon-breast' effect, but is the neck
        > on the back of the garment such as on the noshi, or is it on the front,
        > like a suikan? I assume the former, but am unsure.
        >

        Back. Yup. <G>

        >
        > Finally, there is a kyo (train) on the ketteki-no-ho I've seen. It
        > appears to be as long as the kyo on the shitagasane which makes me assume
        > that it would be of an appropriate length relative to the rank of the
        > wearer. Since I am an AoA, no other titles or 'Alphabet Soup', according
        > to Effingham's chart I would be in the upper 8th rank. If I use that
        > chart, then I looked at kyo lengths, I notice several things.
        >
        > First, there is no length for 8th rank until Late 13th Century, where
        > there is a mark of 3.5 feet for Dep't. Chiefs and Controllers. This,
        > first of all, makes me wonder if I should even try for the Ketteki-no-ho
        > at the moment, or if there is a better piece of 'court garb' to use. Or
        > are there different rules for the Ketteki-no-ho?
        >

        I'll have to look into that and get back to you. Given that ketteki are
        usually tucked up to some extent inside the belt (at the back), I gather
        there's a set length for them, regardless of the rank of the wearer.

        >
        > Finally, on the issue of color, I see that 'Koki hanada' is the color for
        > 8th ranked personages, so I'm thinking of using a Jacquard acid dye #622
        > 'Sapphire Blue' to color organza silk for the ho.
        >

        Sounds good to me. If you can get any photos of the guards from EK Court,
        you'll see what are essentially ketteki; they didn't get the guards unit
        crests printed on their grey kachie, so they technically are half-and-half
        ketteki and kachie.

        >
        > Any suggestions, comments, etc., will be helpful. I'll try to put the
        > patterns up online when I figure them out( along with the Pennsic class
        > stuff... I keep neglecting to do that. Honest, I'll try to get that done
        > this weekend).

        I can relate to this problem. <G>

        Effingham
      • Ii Saburou
        ... Except that, as a formal garment, why have different colors be different lengths because a set rank s color would only have one length that would be
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 9, 2002
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          On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:

          > > First, there is no length for 8th rank until Late 13th Century, where
          > > there is a mark of 3.5 feet for Dep't. Chiefs and Controllers. This,
          > > first of all, makes me wonder if I should even try for the Ketteki-no-ho
          > > at the moment, or if there is a better piece of 'court garb' to use. Or
          > > are there different rules for the Ketteki-no-ho?
          > >
          >
          > I'll have to look into that and get back to you. Given that ketteki are
          > usually tucked up to some extent inside the belt (at the back), I gather
          > there's a set length for them, regardless of the rank of the wearer.

          Except that, as a formal garment, why have different colors be different
          lengths because a set rank's color would only have one length that would
          be appropriate. But it would be much easier that way.

          > Sounds good to me. If you can get any photos of the guards from EK Court,
          > you'll see what are essentially ketteki; they didn't get the guards unit
          > crests printed on their grey kachie, so they technically are half-and-half
          > ketteki and kachie.

          I assume that's last year's EK court? Anyone out there have photos?

          > > Any suggestions, comments, etc., will be helpful. I'll try to put the
          > > patterns up online when I figure them out( along with the Pennsic class
          > > stuff... I keep neglecting to do that. Honest, I'll try to get that done
          > > this weekend).
          >
          > I can relate to this problem. <G>

          And I still didn't get it up... there are a few things I need to do to
          them, first.

          -Ii
        • M. C. Grasse
          Ohayo gozaimasu, Last year was my first and only Pennsic [so far]. I spent a few minutes watching that court [IMPRESSIVE] and I know I have video of it, but Im
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 9, 2002
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            Ohayo gozaimasu,

            Last year was my first and only Pennsic [so far]. I spent a few minutes
            watching that court [IMPRESSIVE] and I know I have video of it, but Im not
            sure I have a way to digitize it or pull off individual pictures. If no one
            else has any I may see if the old Snappy program will work with the upgraded
            computer and then pick out the important bits with photoshop.

            Gwen Cat
            [still looking for a Japanese name to go with the Japanese persona]
            returning to quiet lurkdom

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ii Saburou [mailto:logan@...]
            Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 3:44 AM
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Ketteki-no-ho questions


            On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:

            <snip>

            I assume that's last year's EK court? Anyone out there have photos?


            <SNIP more>
          • Ii Saburou
            ... I would love to get a copy of that (and I m sure others would as well). If you can t digitize, can we send you a tape to get a hard copy, so to speak? If
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 9, 2002
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              On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, M. C. Grasse wrote:

              > Ohayo gozaimasu,
              >
              > Last year was my first and only Pennsic [so far]. I spent a few minutes
              > watching that court [IMPRESSIVE] and I know I have video of it, but Im not
              > sure I have a way to digitize it or pull off individual pictures. If no one
              > else has any I may see if the old Snappy program will work with the upgraded
              > computer and then pick out the important bits with photoshop.
              >
              > Gwen Cat
              > [still looking for a Japanese name to go with the Japanese persona]
              > returning to quiet lurkdom

              I would love to get a copy of that (and I'm sure others would as well).
              If you can't digitize, can we send you a tape to get a hard copy, so to
              speak? If so, contact me offlist.

              -Ii
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