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Arita

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  • Erin Kelly
    This is interesting, but I did a quick web search and all I could find for arita pottery was arita-imari ware from 17th-18th century. Can someone send
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 22, 2002
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      This is interesting, but I did a quick web search and all I could find
      for "arita" pottery was "arita-imari" ware from 17th-18th century. Can
      someone send links for pictures of period stuff?

      ERIN

      > Message: 1
      > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:12:45 -0400
      > From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: Gifts
      >
      > IIRC it is Arita that is the period one. My memory tells me (and I
      > will look it up...) that Imari is later, perhaps 18th century???
      >
      > Kiri
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: lord_aharon_of_talkon
      > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 3:18 PM
      > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Gifts
      >
      >
      > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Mokurai" <mokurai@n...> wrote:
      > > I like this idea a lot and as far as I know, clothing is
      > certainly
      > a Period
      > > gift for anyone. Personally, I also think feast gear is a good,
      > practical
      > > gift if you have access to Japanese wares. Stick to the red and
      > black
      > > laquerware stuff as it is most Period-ish.
      >
      > FYI, feastgear in period was mainly blue on white porcelain plates.
      >
      > I can't remember if it is Arita or Imari that is the more
      > period...but I have documentation at home showing these guys.
      > Technically, you should be able to find very close stuff in your
      > local asian market (that is if you have one).
      >
      > Supposedly, and this is from another quilting book I have, that
      > little drawstring bags were presented to Lords from the workers.
      > They would be filled with little objects like rice and cakes. My
      > documentation is VERY shaky on this one...I got this info from a
      > book
      > called Omiage, which is a modern quilting book that makes cute
      > little
      > drawing string bags.
      >
      > Hopefully that helps sort of.
      >
      > --Artemisia di Serena
      >
      >

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    • Mokurai
      I m also confused by this. I m not an art expert or ceramics person, but like I said, I thought that laquerware or plain wood was more common. Which is it? And
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 22, 2002
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        I'm also confused by this. I'm not an art expert or ceramics person, but
        like I said, I thought that laquerware or plain wood was more common. Which
        is it? And what is the socio-economic factor? Was ceramics cheaper or more
        expensive? I had thought this technology (blue on white porcelain) came from
        China. When?

        Domo.

        - mokurai



        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Erin Kelly [mailto:tupan4@...]
        > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:40 AM
        > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [SCA-JML] Arita
        >
        >
        > This is interesting, but I did a quick web search and all I could find
        > for "arita" pottery was "arita-imari" ware from 17th-18th century. Can
        > someone send links for pictures of period stuff?
        >
        > ERIN
        >
        > > Message: 1
        > > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:12:45 -0400
        > > From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@...>
        > > Subject: Re: Re: Gifts
        > >
        > > IIRC it is Arita that is the period one. My memory tells me (and I
        > > will look it up...) that Imari is later, perhaps 18th century???
        > >
        > > Kiri
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: lord_aharon_of_talkon
        > > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 3:18 PM
        > > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Gifts
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Mokurai" <mokurai@n...> wrote:
        > > > I like this idea a lot and as far as I know, clothing is
        > > certainly
        > > a Period
        > > > gift for anyone. Personally, I also think feast gear is a good,
        > > practical
        > > > gift if you have access to Japanese wares. Stick to the red and
        > > black
        > > > laquerware stuff as it is most Period-ish.
        > >
        > > FYI, feastgear in period was mainly blue on white porcelain plates.
        > >
        > > I can't remember if it is Arita or Imari that is the more
        > > period...but I have documentation at home showing these guys.
        > > Technically, you should be able to find very close stuff in your
        > > local asian market (that is if you have one).
        > >
        > > Supposedly, and this is from another quilting book I have, that
        > > little drawstring bags were presented to Lords from the workers.
        > > They would be filled with little objects like rice and cakes. My
        > > documentation is VERY shaky on this one...I got this info from a
        > > book
        > > called Omiage, which is a modern quilting book that makes cute
        > > little
        > > drawing string bags.
        > >
        > > Hopefully that helps sort of.
        > >
        > > --Artemisia di Serena
        > >
        > >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
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        > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
        > http://health.yahoo.com
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
      • lost90804
        ... Edo jidai, 1603+. Jim Eckman
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 22, 2002
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          --- In sca-jml@y..., "Mokurai" <mokurai@n...> wrote:
          > I had thought this technology (blue on white porcelain) came from
          > China. When?

          Edo jidai, 1603+.

          Jim Eckman
        • lord_aharon_of_talkon
          You know, I haven t found many sites that show period JAPANESE blue on white. Chinese, yes, but Japanese, no. I know they did in late period, but earlier,
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 22, 2002
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            You know, I haven't found many sites that show "period" JAPANESE blue
            on white. Chinese, yes, but Japanese, no. I know they did in late
            period, but earlier, I would have to research.

            I uploaded an article I wrote to the files section about the major
            ceramics throughout asia. It covers a very different things, but it
            mainly deals with asia's influence on Europe. I think what I may do
            is take this article and expand on it.

            I have to look through some more books, but basically what the
            Japanese knew about ceramics, they learned from China and Korea.
            ESPECIALLY from Korea and those poor souls that were dragged over as
            war captives. The koreans taught the japanese how to use the clay,
            build better kilns and they introduce celadons.

            Bizenware is one of the earliest period ceramics in Japan that is
            more japanese than China or Korean types, but it is definetely NO
            porcelain. Bizenware is very textured, like volcanic, and VERY
            rustic.

            The problem with Japanese Ceramics is that you need to basically not
            bother using the internet to reseach it. I've found so many
            contradictions (one even had korea who invented raku which every
            other website and book I owe said the opposite) on the web that I try
            to read what is there with a grain of salt. I can suggest some great
            books I own that you can get from the library on period ceramics.

            Wow...I'm rambled enough on this subject. Let me know if you want me
            to give you book titles and research this more.

            --Raku (Artemisia di Serena/Mercy)

            --- In sca-jml@y..., "lost90804" <FUGU@p...> wrote:
            > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Mokurai" <mokurai@n...> wrote:
            > > I had thought this technology (blue on white porcelain) came from
            > > China. When?
            >
            > Edo jidai, 1603+.
            >
            > Jim Eckman
          • lost90804
            ... True, a few of the Japanese museums may have some but they might not be captioned in either Japanese or English. A trip to a good or great library is
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 22, 2002
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              --- In sca-jml@y..., "lord_aharon_of_talkon" <mneumark@h...> wrote:
              > You know, I haven't found many sites that show "period" JAPANESE blue
              > on white. Chinese, yes, but Japanese, no. I know they did in late
              > period, but earlier, I would have to research.

              True, a few of the Japanese museums may have some but they might not
              be captioned in either Japanese or English. A trip to a good or great
              library is probably in order unless you don't mind dropping a few
              hundred dollars on some fantastic but expensive picture books. The
              best website I've found so far is the Robert Yellin site that I posted
              earlier. It has a fair number of links to Japanese museums and current
              artists as well as a good overview history.

              > I uploaded an article I wrote to the files section about the major
              > ceramics throughout asia. It covers a very different things, but it
              > mainly deals with asia's influence on Europe. I think what I may do
              > is take this article and expand on it.

              Cool!

              > The problem with Japanese Ceramics is that you need to basically not
              > bother using the internet to reseach it.

              Depends on how deep you want to go, I love Asian ceramics so I've
              pored over those lovely books carried by universities and the like but
              for someone who's less interested in a great deal of trivia, it may be
              possible to get a good general idea on the web.

              > Wow...I'm rambled enough on this subject. Let me know if you want me
              > to give you book titles and research this more.

              Please do, interlibrary loans work wonders.

              Jim Eckman
            • Elaine Koogler
              I m doing some research on this as I can. I just started a new job and they ve already got me rewriting a course that I m going to be teaching the week before
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 25, 2002
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                I'm doing some research on this as I can. I just started a new job and they've already got me rewriting a course that I'm going to be teaching the week before Pennsic!! So I'm kind of under the gun with that. But I am checking into it. It appears I may have been mistaken about the Arita...but then I did say I wasn't sure. I do know that pottery existed very early in Japan, but it wasn't the fine porcelain. That they learned how to make from Chinese and Korean potters. I don't have dates yet, but, as I said, I'll get them out as soon as possible.

                The website referred to be another person (name escapes me at the moment...I've been fighting with Oracle all day) looked pretty good, so you might want to check that out.

                Kiri
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Mokurai
                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:46 PM
                Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Arita


                I'm also confused by this. I'm not an art expert or ceramics person, but
                like I said, I thought that laquerware or plain wood was more common. Which
                is it? And what is the socio-economic factor? Was ceramics cheaper or more
                expensive? I had thought this technology (blue on white porcelain) came from
                China. When?

                Domo.

                - mokurai



                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Erin Kelly [mailto:tupan4@...]
                > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:40 AM
                > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [SCA-JML] Arita
                >
                >
                > This is interesting, but I did a quick web search and all I could find
                > for "arita" pottery was "arita-imari" ware from 17th-18th century. Can
                > someone send links for pictures of period stuff?
                >
                > ERIN
                >
                > > Message: 1
                > > Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:12:45 -0400
                > > From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@...>
                > > Subject: Re: Re: Gifts
                > >
                > > IIRC it is Arita that is the period one. My memory tells me (and I
                > > will look it up...) that Imari is later, perhaps 18th century???
                > >
                > > Kiri
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: lord_aharon_of_talkon
                > > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 3:18 PM
                > > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Gifts
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Mokurai" <mokurai@n...> wrote:
                > > > I like this idea a lot and as far as I know, clothing is
                > > certainly
                > > a Period
                > > > gift for anyone. Personally, I also think feast gear is a good,
                > > practical
                > > > gift if you have access to Japanese wares. Stick to the red and
                > > black
                > > > laquerware stuff as it is most Period-ish.
                > >
                > > FYI, feastgear in period was mainly blue on white porcelain plates.
                > >
                > > I can't remember if it is Arita or Imari that is the more
                > > period...but I have documentation at home showing these guys.
                > > Technically, you should be able to find very close stuff in your
                > > local asian market (that is if you have one).
                > >
                > > Supposedly, and this is from another quilting book I have, that
                > > little drawstring bags were presented to Lords from the workers.
                > > They would be filled with little objects like rice and cakes. My
                > > documentation is VERY shaky on this one...I got this info from a
                > > book
                > > called Omiage, which is a modern quilting book that makes cute
                > > little
                > > drawing string bags.
                > >
                > > Hopefully that helps sort of.
                > >
                > > --Artemisia di Serena
                > >
                > >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
                > http://health.yahoo.com
                >
                >
                > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >


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              • lord_aharon_of_talkon
                ... and they ve already got me rewriting a course that I m going to be teaching the week before Pennsic!! So I m kind of under the gun with that. But I am
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 6 11:50 AM
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                  --- In sca-jml@y..., Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1@c...> wrote:
                  > I'm doing some research on this as I can. I just started a new job
                  and they've already got me rewriting a course that I'm going to be
                  teaching the week before Pennsic!! So I'm kind of under the gun with
                  that. But I am checking into it. It appears I may have been
                  mistaken about the Arita...but then I did say I wasn't sure. I do
                  know that pottery existed very early in Japan, but it wasn't the fine
                  porcelain. That they learned how to make from Chinese and Korean
                  potters. I don't have dates yet, but, as I said, I'll get them out
                  as soon as possible.
                  >
                  > The website referred to be another person (name escapes me at the
                  moment...I've been fighting with Oracle all day) looked pretty good,
                  so you might want to check that out.
                  >

                  Check out the files section, very bottom, ca project is the title.
                  It is a research paper I wrote on ceramics in asia. It BARELY
                  touches porcelain, but it goes into the main materials that were
                  used, which were stoneware and earthernware. And it was the koreans,
                  mainly, who taught the Japanese how to fire their kilns at higher
                  temps and introduced, amoung many other things, celadon glaze.

                  China did have some influence, but really not as much as korea, or at
                  least not as DIRECTLY as korea had.

                  I just got yet ANOTHER Japanese ceramic book, it's actually a history
                  of folk art, mostly wood, some fiber and ceramics, and it seems that
                  if Japan did use porcelain, it would be very late period since all
                  the examples I've come across so far have been 17th century. Again,
                  I am far from perfect or the end all knowledge, but from what it
                  looks like, China was the one that used porcelains and exported it
                  first, and much earlier in period.

                  So, while blue and white pottery is extremely "it" in Japan today, it
                  certainly wasn't as available during most of period. Shino, celedon,
                  temoku and oribe wares would be the main ones, with a whole lot of
                  ash glaze pieces mixed in. Bizenware, tamba also period, but tamba
                  as far as I know isn't still in production. Hmmm...something else to
                  research. :)

                  I will be expanding that asian ceramics article for Caid's pentathlon
                  I have decided. I'm a little miffled that there is so little focus
                  in Caid on asia and its arts. I mean, HELLO, we have Hawaii in our
                  Kingdom. ::shrugg::

                  If you all could please read the article and tell me what you would
                  like to know more ABOUT that would help. I WILL research porcelain
                  some more for sure...but anything else?

                  --Arte
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