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Re: [SCA-JML] just joined the list -- Hello!

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  • Ælfhelm se reade
    ... Thank you very much. I ve already begun reading thru the vast amount of data avaliable from here, and from sengokudaimyo.com (a wonderful site!) ...
    Message 1 of 5 , May 7, 2002
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      logan@... wrote:

      >Yokosou! Ware ha Ii to mosu mono.*
      >
      >We will be as much help as we can in anything you would like. Try the
      >'Files' section of the Yahoo!groups page and see if you find anything you
      >like in there. The hitatare over kosode and hakama are a good start, and
      >fairly easy. If you want sources of affordable silk or even hemp, we can
      >help you there as well.
      >
      Thank you very much. I've already begun reading thru the vast amount of
      data avaliable from here, and from sengokudaimyo.com (a wonderful site!)

      >
      >As for your name, I would ask where it came from, first. I cannot recall
      >'Minakawa' as a name, but there are many I haven't seen--where did you
      >come up with it? Jirou is a very nice yobina/zokumyo. Tomosuke is
      >another I haven't heard, exactly, and my first reaction is to be wary of
      >any '-suke' as this used to be a title and although it was used later on,
      >I would generally discourage its use unless it is coming from a different
      >origin.
      >
      "Minakawa" -- an Academy of St Gabriel <http://www.s-gabriel.org>
      (http://www.s-gabriel.org) report (#338) suggested it as non-historical,
      but plausible; the report said it meant "common meadow." Also from St.
      Gabriel, (reports #2019 & 478), I found the name Jirou, meaning "2nd
      Son." I chose "Tomosuke" from yet another web site,
      http://home.austin.rr.com/scajapan/LANGUAGE.HTM , based purely on how it
      sounded to me -- vaguely close to my mundane personal name of "Thomas."
      I was pleased to find the name elements of Tomosuke were also in a chart
      at www.sengokukaimyo.com/Miscellany/Names.html. (Tomo="court/morning"
      and Suke="assist")

      All that being said, and despite a bit of on-line research, I must
      admit to a heapin' helpin' of ignorance, and I would be happy for any
      assistance... for example, from what I read yesterday, should I change
      it to Minakawa no Jirou Tomosuke? or may I leave the "no" out?

      >
      >www.sengokudaimyo.com is the place to go with help on names, clothes, and
      >just about everything else!
      >
      Yes, indeedy. An absolutely wonderful site. My laser printer at work
      was working overtime yesterday.

      >
      >Hope I can help you out.
      >
      >-Ii
      >
      >
      >*Welcome! I am the one called Ii.
      >

      --
      Yours in Service,

      Lord Ælfhelm se reade
      House of the White Shark
      http://www.geocities.com/lordaelfhelm

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------

      When in doubt, listen to the man with the bloodier weapon..
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... Waes thu hael, Aelfhelm. ... The surname exists, but it s pronounced Minagawa, with the voiceless consonant ( g ) rather than the voiced ( k ). There s a
      Message 2 of 5 , May 7, 2002
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        lordaelfhelm wrote:

        > Greetings unto the list!
        >
        > I am Aelfhelm se reade, from Ansteorra.

        Waes thu hael, Aelfhelm.

        >
        > I've just started research into a Japanese alternate persona.
        > Assuming things I learn make this a bad name choice, I'm working him
        > up as "Minakawa Jirou Tomosuke."

        The surname exists, but it's pronounced "Minagawa," with the voiceless
        consonant ("g") rather than the voiced ("k"). There's a famous Japanese
        skier (ah, the Winter Olympics! <G>) named Minagawa Kentaro.

        The name "Tomosuke" strikes me as problematic. Usually "-suke" (more
        commonly "-nosuke") is attached to a title or something which became a name
        (think "Earl" or "Rex" as English examples), and I don't think that "Tomo-"
        would qualify. I generally recommend people avoid "-nosuke" names just to be
        on the safe side, as even in a Japanese text only the context will tell you
        whether Toda Sasuke is Toda Sasuke or "Toda, Assistant of the Left
        (something, usually 'guards')."

        > I have no appropriate garb for him
        > (yet), and as I was searching the Web for patterns & suggestions, I
        > came upon this list.

        By now you've been directed. I'm just catching up.... <G>

        Effingham
      • Anthony J. Bryant
        ... Thanks! ... I read the report. It should be -gawa as I mentioned (like it s Tokugawa and not Tokukawa). For the record, it s common river. ... By
        Message 3 of 5 , May 7, 2002
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          Ælfhelm se reade wrote:

          >
          > >We will be as much help as we can in anything you would like. Try the
          > >'Files' section of the Yahoo!groups page and see if you find anything you
          > >like in there. The hitatare over kosode and hakama are a good start, and
          > >fairly easy. If you want sources of affordable silk or even hemp, we can
          > >help you there as well.
          > >
          > Thank you very much. I've already begun reading thru the vast amount of
          > data avaliable from here, and from sengokudaimyo.com (a wonderful site!)
          >

          Thanks! <G>

          >
          > >As for your name, I would ask where it came from, first. I cannot recall
          > >'Minakawa' as a name, but there are many I haven't seen--where did you
          > >come up with it? Jirou is a very nice yobina/zokumyo. Tomosuke is
          > >another I haven't heard, exactly, and my first reaction is to be wary of
          > >any '-suke' as this used to be a title and although it was used later on,
          > >I would generally discourage its use unless it is coming from a different
          > >origin.
          > >
          > "Minakawa" -- an Academy of St Gabriel <http://www.s-gabriel.org>
          > (http://www.s-gabriel.org) report (#338) suggested it as non-historical,
          > but plausible; the report said it meant "common meadow."

          I read the report. It should be "-gawa" as I mentioned (like it's Tokugawa
          and not Tokukawa). For the record, it's "common river."

          > Also from St.
          > Gabriel, (reports #2019 & 478), I found the name Jirou, meaning "2nd
          > Son." I chose "Tomosuke" from yet another web site,
          > http://home.austin.rr.com/scajapan/LANGUAGE.HTM , based purely on how it
          > sounded to me -- vaguely close to my mundane personal name of "Thomas."
          > I was pleased to find the name elements of Tomosuke were also in a chart
          > at www.sengokukaimyo.com/Miscellany/Names.html. (Tomo="court/morning"
          > and Suke="assist")
          >

          By the way, I'm officially full of hot air. I did some checking, and Tomosuke
          *is* a viable name. It's attested at least as early as the period of the fall
          of the shogunate (the Bakumatsu period) -- call it the mid 19th century, and
          appears as the name of a character in a TV drama called "Kirisute Gomen"
          ("the right to cut down") which was set in the late 17th/early 18th
          centuries. It was in the Edo period, of course, when the "-(no)suke" and
          "-emon" names really took off, though, so I really don't know much more. I
          haven't found any period examples, so I'm still ambivalent about the name.

          >
          > All that being said, and despite a bit of on-line research, I must
          > admit to a heapin' helpin' of ignorance, and I would be happy for any
          > assistance... for example, from what I read yesterday, should I change
          > it to Minakawa no Jirou Tomosuke? or may I leave the "no" out?
          >

          If you're doing post 1400, I'd suggest leaving "no" out. You need no no, you
          know? Yes, we have no no's today...

          >
          > >
          > >www.sengokudaimyo.com is the place to go with help on names, clothes, and
          > >just about everything else!
          > >
          > Yes, indeedy. An absolutely wonderful site. My laser printer at work
          > was working overtime yesterday.

          Thanks again. <GG>

          Effingham
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