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Unusual question for Japanese Language buffs

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  • rujoking99@mac.com
    I was looking at the kanji for Kinoshita, or Ki - Shita. Tree, the Underneath of. Then I thought of Shitaki mushrooms. Shita - Ki... Underneath Tree. Are
    Message 1 of 11 , May 6, 2002
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      I was looking at the kanji for Kinoshita, or Ki - Shita. Tree, the
      Underneath of. Then I thought of Shitaki mushrooms. Shita - Ki...
      Underneath Tree. Are these both correct etymologies?

      I also like how the kanji for "mori" meaning forest, uses three "ki" or
      tree kanji.

      Anyway, back to more important things....
      Kinoshita Yoshimori, "The Underneath of the Tree, Good Fortune Forest"
    • Nate Ledbetter
      ... No. It s Shiitake , not Shitaki . The take is the same kanji for kinoko , mushroom. Shii is a kanji that at the moment I can t find a meaning for
      Message 2 of 11 , May 7, 2002
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        --- rujoking99@... wrote:
        > I was looking at the kanji for Kinoshita, or Ki -
        > Shita. Tree, the
        > Underneath of. Then I thought of Shitaki mushrooms.
        > Shita - Ki...
        > Underneath Tree. Are these both correct
        > etymologies?
        >

        No. It's "Shiitake", not "Shitaki". The "take" is the
        same kanji for "kinoko", mushroom. "Shii" is a kanji
        that at the moment I can't find a meaning for other
        than "chinquapan", which I have no idea what that
        means.

        > I also like how the kanji for "mori" meaning forest,
        > uses three "ki" or
        > tree kanji.

        What do you mean? It's a triangle of trees--one "ki"
        on top of two "ki"...2 "ki" is "hayashi", or woods. 3
        "ki" must then be a forest, right?

        Shonaigawa


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      • Nate Ledbetter
        ... Not to burst your bubble more, but I believe you may want to check with Effingham-dono or Ii-dono on your nanori...I don t think the mori in nanori is
        Message 3 of 11 , May 7, 2002
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          > Anyway, back to more important things....
          > Kinoshita Yoshimori, "The Underneath of the Tree,
          > Good Fortune Forest"
          >

          Not to burst your bubble more, but I believe you may
          want to check with Effingham-dono or Ii-dono on your
          nanori...I don't think the "mori" in nanori is the
          same "mori" used for "forest"...not sure what it is,
          but I know at least Sakuma Nobumori used a much
          different kanji.

          Effingham-dono?



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        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... You left out the no ( s ): Ki-no-shita, Tree s Under , or indeed, Under(neath of) the tree ... Um, no. Two mistakes. It s shiitake, not shitaki.
          Message 4 of 11 , May 7, 2002
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            rujoking99@... wrote:

            > I was looking at the kanji for Kinoshita, or Ki - Shita. Tree, the
            > Underneath of.

            You left out the "no" (" 's "): Ki-no-shita, "Tree's Under", or indeed,
            "Under(neath of) the tree"

            > Then I thought of Shitaki mushrooms. Shita - Ki...
            > Underneath Tree.

            Um, no. Two mistakes. It's shiitake, not shitaki. The kanji used are "shii"
            (oak) and "take" (mushroom).

            > Are these both correct etymologies?
            >

            You're batting .500. <G>

            >
            > I also like how the kanji for "mori" meaning forest, uses three "ki" or
            > tree kanji.
            >

            I saw a book once that recommended six "ki" (two columns, three "ki" lined
            vertically) to be read for "janguru" (jungle)...

            >
            > Anyway, back to more important things....
            > Kinoshita Yoshimori, "The Underneath of the Tree, Good Fortune Forest"

            Sorry, wrong mori. In given names, the "mori" is "to build up, luxuriate
            in".


            Effingham
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... Bingo! (not to be confused with the province of the same name in the San yodo... ) Effingham
            Message 5 of 11 , May 7, 2002
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              Nate Ledbetter wrote:

              > > Anyway, back to more important things....
              > > Kinoshita Yoshimori, "The Underneath of the Tree,
              > > Good Fortune Forest"
              > >
              >
              > Not to burst your bubble more, but I believe you may
              > want to check with Effingham-dono or Ii-dono on your
              > nanori...I don't think the "mori" in nanori is the
              > same "mori" used for "forest"...not sure what it is,
              > but I know at least Sakuma Nobumori used a much
              > different kanji.
              >
              > Effingham-dono?
              >

              Bingo! (not to be confused with the province of the same name in the
              San'yodo... <G>)


              Effingham
            • Nate Ledbetter
              ... Ah...I hear Bingo is quite nice this time of year...LOL Shonaigawa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your
              Message 6 of 11 , May 7, 2002
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                --- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
                >
                > Bingo! (not to be confused with the province of the
                > same name in the
                > San'yodo... <G>)
                >
                >
                > Effingham
                >

                Ah...I hear Bingo is quite nice this time of
                year...LOL

                Shonaigawa


                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                http://health.yahoo.com
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... Yeah, the summers are warm and you don t need your beach blanket. Effingham
                Message 7 of 11 , May 7, 2002
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                  Nate Ledbetter wrote:

                  > --- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Bingo! (not to be confused with the province of the
                  > > same name in the
                  > > San'yodo... <G>)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Effingham
                  > >
                  >
                  > Ah...I hear Bingo is quite nice this time of
                  > year...LOL

                  Yeah, the summers are warm and you don't need your beach blanket.


                  Effingham
                • rujoking99
                  Konbanwa... or is it Konnichiwa? What time is it anyway? ... indeed, ... Yeah, a while back I was thinking of the no, which implied that it wasn t from
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 8, 2002
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                    Konbanwa... or is it Konnichiwa? What time is it anyway?

                    > You left out the "no" (" 's "): Ki-no-shita, "Tree's Under", or
                    indeed,
                    > "Under(neath of) the tree"
                    Yeah, a while back I was thinking of the "no," which implied that it
                    wasn't "from under the trees" as I thought, but technically, "The
                    underneath (noun) of the tree." Interesting...

                    > > Then I thought of Shitaki mushrooms. Shita - Ki...
                    > > Underneath Tree.
                    > > Are these both correct etymologies?
                    >
                    > You're batting .500. <G>
                    Doh! Of course, the sounds "Shii - Take" and "Shita-ki" can be
                    made remarkably similar by non-native speakers, when the
                    difference is actually quite important. I'll try to go with the
                    spelling of a dictionary rather than that of a 2 minute search on
                    google for the wrong spelling.

                    > I saw a book once that recommended six "ki" (two columns,
                    three "ki" lined
                    > vertically) to be read for "janguru" (jungle)...
                    That is really cool... Are kanji made up today for things like
                    "computer" and "cell phone?" It reminds me of the fluidity of
                    German, where if you want to make a new word, you add old
                    ones together.

                    > Sorry, wrong mori. In given names, the "mori" is "to build up,
                    luxuriate
                    > in".

                    Is that "mo-ri" or "moh-ri?" I wish there were some way to put
                    lines over the vowells, but ahh well, such is the web. Well, an
                    average of .50, with a strike in overtime isn't that bad... <G> If
                    only my community college offered Japanese!

                    Kinoshita Yoshimori, currently luxuriating in good fortune

                    PS: What is the Japanese name for a Noh flute? And does
                    anyone know a source for cheap but servicable Shakuhachi?
                  • daviem01
                    ... I believe a Noh flute is called a fue (please excuse the horrendous spelling, my romaji is rusty!) I saw one in an antique shop in Kamakura (still
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 8, 2002
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                      --- In sca-jml@y..., "rujoking99" <rujoking99@m...> wrote:
                      >
                      > PS: What is the Japanese name for a Noh flute? And does
                      > anyone know a source for cheap but servicable Shakuhachi?

                      I believe a Noh flute is called a "fue" (please excuse the horrendous
                      spelling, my romaji is rusty!)
                      I saw one in an antique shop in Kamakura (still kicking myself for
                      not getting it) and that's what the proprietor called it...

                      Aine
                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... No, it was in a book on playing with kanji, making games and fake kanji. Adding words together is stringing kanji together. The idea of creating new
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 8, 2002
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                        rujoking99 wrote:

                        >
                        > > I saw a book once that recommended six "ki" (two columns,
                        > three "ki" lined
                        > > vertically) to be read for "janguru" (jungle)...
                        > That is really cool... Are kanji made up today for things like
                        > "computer" and "cell phone?" It reminds me of the fluidity of
                        > German, where if you want to make a new word, you add old
                        > ones together.
                        >

                        No, it was in a book on playing with kanji, making games and fake kanji.
                        Adding words together is stringing kanji together. The idea of "creating new
                        kanji" today is like creating a new letter for German, not putting words
                        together, and expecting everyone to know what it is.

                        >
                        > > Sorry, wrong mori. In given names, the "mori" is "to build up,
                        > luxuriate
                        > > in".
                        >
                        > Is that "mo-ri" or "moh-ri?" I wish there were some way to put
                        > lines over the vowells, but ahh well, such is the web. Well, an
                        > average of .50, with a strike in overtime isn't that bad... <G> If
                        > only my community college offered Japanese!
                        >

                        Mo-ri. On the website, if you don't see a circumflex (standing in for a
                        macron) it's a short vowel. Likewise here, if there's doubt, we'll either
                        put in the circuflex/macron or give an alternate spelling with a U (e.g.,
                        "the Mori family of Chugoku [Mouri] was not the same as the Mori family of
                        Kagoshima [Mori].").

                        >
                        > PS: What is the Japanese name for a Noh flute? And does
                        > anyone know a source for cheap but servicable Shakuhachi?
                      • Anthony J. Bryant
                        ... Fue means flute -- just flute. (Well, Japanese flute. Western style flutes are called furuuto. ) Think of it as the English word flute or
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 8, 2002
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                          daviem01 wrote:

                          > --- In sca-jml@y..., "rujoking99" <rujoking99@m...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > PS: What is the Japanese name for a Noh flute? And does
                          > > anyone know a source for cheap but servicable Shakuhachi?
                          >
                          > I believe a Noh flute is called a "fue" (please excuse the horrendous
                          > spelling, my romaji is rusty!)
                          > I saw one in an antique shop in Kamakura (still kicking myself for
                          > not getting it) and that's what the proprietor called it...

                          "Fue" means "flute" -- just "flute." (Well, Japanese flute. Western style
                          flutes are called "furuuto.")

                          Think of it as the English word "flute" or "recorder." There's a general
                          *type* of instrument that we all picture. Beyond that, there are terms that
                          specify what type (like "alto recorder" or "tenor recorder" for example).

                          Effingham
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