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Re: [SCA-JML] just joined the list -- Hello!

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  • Ii Saburou
    ... Yokosou! Ware ha Ii to mosu mono.* We will be as much help as we can in anything you would like. Try the Files section of the Yahoo!groups page and see
    Message 1 of 5 , May 6 8:33 PM
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      On Mon, 6 May 2002, lordaelfhelm wrote:

      > Greetings unto the list!
      >
      > I am Aelfhelm se reade, from Ansteorra. (I don't really have a 'home
      > group' at the moment; I'm semi-near the baronies of Elfsea and
      > Steppes, and the cantons of Glaslyn and Lindenwood.) Anyway...
      >
      > I've just started research into a Japanese alternate persona.
      > Assuming things I learn make this a bad name choice, I'm working him
      > up as "Minakawa Jirou Tomosuke." I have no appropriate garb for him
      > (yet), and as I was searching the Web for patterns & suggestions, I
      > came upon this list.

      Yokosou! Ware ha Ii to mosu mono.*

      We will be as much help as we can in anything you would like. Try the
      'Files' section of the Yahoo!groups page and see if you find anything you
      like in there. The hitatare over kosode and hakama are a good start, and
      fairly easy. If you want sources of affordable silk or even hemp, we can
      help you there as well.

      As for your name, I would ask where it came from, first. I cannot recall
      'Minakawa' as a name, but there are many I haven't seen--where did you
      come up with it? Jirou is a very nice yobina/zokumyo. Tomosuke is
      another I haven't heard, exactly, and my first reaction is to be wary of
      any '-suke' as this used to be a title and although it was used later on,
      I would generally discourage its use unless it is coming from a different
      origin.

      www.sengokudaimyo.com is the place to go with help on names, clothes, and
      just about everything else!

      Hope I can help you out.

      -Ii


      *Welcome! I am the one called Ii.
    • Ælfhelm se reade
      ... Thank you very much. I ve already begun reading thru the vast amount of data avaliable from here, and from sengokudaimyo.com (a wonderful site!) ...
      Message 2 of 5 , May 7 9:06 AM
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        logan@... wrote:

        >Yokosou! Ware ha Ii to mosu mono.*
        >
        >We will be as much help as we can in anything you would like. Try the
        >'Files' section of the Yahoo!groups page and see if you find anything you
        >like in there. The hitatare over kosode and hakama are a good start, and
        >fairly easy. If you want sources of affordable silk or even hemp, we can
        >help you there as well.
        >
        Thank you very much. I've already begun reading thru the vast amount of
        data avaliable from here, and from sengokudaimyo.com (a wonderful site!)

        >
        >As for your name, I would ask where it came from, first. I cannot recall
        >'Minakawa' as a name, but there are many I haven't seen--where did you
        >come up with it? Jirou is a very nice yobina/zokumyo. Tomosuke is
        >another I haven't heard, exactly, and my first reaction is to be wary of
        >any '-suke' as this used to be a title and although it was used later on,
        >I would generally discourage its use unless it is coming from a different
        >origin.
        >
        "Minakawa" -- an Academy of St Gabriel <http://www.s-gabriel.org>
        (http://www.s-gabriel.org) report (#338) suggested it as non-historical,
        but plausible; the report said it meant "common meadow." Also from St.
        Gabriel, (reports #2019 & 478), I found the name Jirou, meaning "2nd
        Son." I chose "Tomosuke" from yet another web site,
        http://home.austin.rr.com/scajapan/LANGUAGE.HTM , based purely on how it
        sounded to me -- vaguely close to my mundane personal name of "Thomas."
        I was pleased to find the name elements of Tomosuke were also in a chart
        at www.sengokukaimyo.com/Miscellany/Names.html. (Tomo="court/morning"
        and Suke="assist")

        All that being said, and despite a bit of on-line research, I must
        admit to a heapin' helpin' of ignorance, and I would be happy for any
        assistance... for example, from what I read yesterday, should I change
        it to Minakawa no Jirou Tomosuke? or may I leave the "no" out?

        >
        >www.sengokudaimyo.com is the place to go with help on names, clothes, and
        >just about everything else!
        >
        Yes, indeedy. An absolutely wonderful site. My laser printer at work
        was working overtime yesterday.

        >
        >Hope I can help you out.
        >
        >-Ii
        >
        >
        >*Welcome! I am the one called Ii.
        >

        --
        Yours in Service,

        Lord Ælfhelm se reade
        House of the White Shark
        http://www.geocities.com/lordaelfhelm

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

        When in doubt, listen to the man with the bloodier weapon..
      • Anthony J. Bryant
        ... Waes thu hael, Aelfhelm. ... The surname exists, but it s pronounced Minagawa, with the voiceless consonant ( g ) rather than the voiced ( k ). There s a
        Message 3 of 5 , May 7 5:21 PM
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          lordaelfhelm wrote:

          > Greetings unto the list!
          >
          > I am Aelfhelm se reade, from Ansteorra.

          Waes thu hael, Aelfhelm.

          >
          > I've just started research into a Japanese alternate persona.
          > Assuming things I learn make this a bad name choice, I'm working him
          > up as "Minakawa Jirou Tomosuke."

          The surname exists, but it's pronounced "Minagawa," with the voiceless
          consonant ("g") rather than the voiced ("k"). There's a famous Japanese
          skier (ah, the Winter Olympics! <G>) named Minagawa Kentaro.

          The name "Tomosuke" strikes me as problematic. Usually "-suke" (more
          commonly "-nosuke") is attached to a title or something which became a name
          (think "Earl" or "Rex" as English examples), and I don't think that "Tomo-"
          would qualify. I generally recommend people avoid "-nosuke" names just to be
          on the safe side, as even in a Japanese text only the context will tell you
          whether Toda Sasuke is Toda Sasuke or "Toda, Assistant of the Left
          (something, usually 'guards')."

          > I have no appropriate garb for him
          > (yet), and as I was searching the Web for patterns & suggestions, I
          > came upon this list.

          By now you've been directed. I'm just catching up.... <G>

          Effingham
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... Thanks! ... I read the report. It should be -gawa as I mentioned (like it s Tokugawa and not Tokukawa). For the record, it s common river. ... By
          Message 4 of 5 , May 7 5:51 PM
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            Ælfhelm se reade wrote:

            >
            > >We will be as much help as we can in anything you would like. Try the
            > >'Files' section of the Yahoo!groups page and see if you find anything you
            > >like in there. The hitatare over kosode and hakama are a good start, and
            > >fairly easy. If you want sources of affordable silk or even hemp, we can
            > >help you there as well.
            > >
            > Thank you very much. I've already begun reading thru the vast amount of
            > data avaliable from here, and from sengokudaimyo.com (a wonderful site!)
            >

            Thanks! <G>

            >
            > >As for your name, I would ask where it came from, first. I cannot recall
            > >'Minakawa' as a name, but there are many I haven't seen--where did you
            > >come up with it? Jirou is a very nice yobina/zokumyo. Tomosuke is
            > >another I haven't heard, exactly, and my first reaction is to be wary of
            > >any '-suke' as this used to be a title and although it was used later on,
            > >I would generally discourage its use unless it is coming from a different
            > >origin.
            > >
            > "Minakawa" -- an Academy of St Gabriel <http://www.s-gabriel.org>
            > (http://www.s-gabriel.org) report (#338) suggested it as non-historical,
            > but plausible; the report said it meant "common meadow."

            I read the report. It should be "-gawa" as I mentioned (like it's Tokugawa
            and not Tokukawa). For the record, it's "common river."

            > Also from St.
            > Gabriel, (reports #2019 & 478), I found the name Jirou, meaning "2nd
            > Son." I chose "Tomosuke" from yet another web site,
            > http://home.austin.rr.com/scajapan/LANGUAGE.HTM , based purely on how it
            > sounded to me -- vaguely close to my mundane personal name of "Thomas."
            > I was pleased to find the name elements of Tomosuke were also in a chart
            > at www.sengokukaimyo.com/Miscellany/Names.html. (Tomo="court/morning"
            > and Suke="assist")
            >

            By the way, I'm officially full of hot air. I did some checking, and Tomosuke
            *is* a viable name. It's attested at least as early as the period of the fall
            of the shogunate (the Bakumatsu period) -- call it the mid 19th century, and
            appears as the name of a character in a TV drama called "Kirisute Gomen"
            ("the right to cut down") which was set in the late 17th/early 18th
            centuries. It was in the Edo period, of course, when the "-(no)suke" and
            "-emon" names really took off, though, so I really don't know much more. I
            haven't found any period examples, so I'm still ambivalent about the name.

            >
            > All that being said, and despite a bit of on-line research, I must
            > admit to a heapin' helpin' of ignorance, and I would be happy for any
            > assistance... for example, from what I read yesterday, should I change
            > it to Minakawa no Jirou Tomosuke? or may I leave the "no" out?
            >

            If you're doing post 1400, I'd suggest leaving "no" out. You need no no, you
            know? Yes, we have no no's today...

            >
            > >
            > >www.sengokudaimyo.com is the place to go with help on names, clothes, and
            > >just about everything else!
            > >
            > Yes, indeedy. An absolutely wonderful site. My laser printer at work
            > was working overtime yesterday.

            Thanks again. <GG>

            Effingham
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