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Request for help.....

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  • Elaine Koogler
    I have a question I hope some one of you might be able to answer. I have been trying for the past several years to register an heraldic title for myself as a
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 6, 2002
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      I have a question I hope some one of you might be able to answer.

      I have been trying for the past several years to register an heraldic title for myself as a past principal herald of Atlantia. I've tried numerous permutations of "dragon", including both Japanese and Chinese translations, adding adjectives and translating them (thought "Golden Dragon" was cool...sounds like a Chinese restaurant), but the MidRealm refuses to allow me to use any of them. Not even a dragon part ("Dragon Claw"...from my mon). So, in a fit if desperation, I decided to use the English translation of my nickname, "Kiri"..."Paulownia". We all loved it, especially the cant on my name. However, I'm now being told that it is not a period word...that it came into use in the 19th century and came from the name of a Russian Princess, somebody or other Pavlovna. Can anyone either give me documentation for the word in period...or the Chinese name for the tree...I'd really rather not try for "Kiri" herald, for obvious reasons.

      Any help you all can give would be appreciated!!

      Kiri


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... Well, unfortunately, it wasn t a Western tree, so it doesn t have a name that was recognizable in the West. It s like the Japanese ume -- we just didn t
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 6, 2002
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        Elaine Koogler wrote:

        > I have a question I hope some one of you might be able to answer.
        >
        > I have been trying for the past several years to register an heraldic title for myself as a past principal herald of Atlantia. I've tried numerous permutations of "dragon", including both Japanese and Chinese translations, adding adjectives and translating them (thought "Golden Dragon" was cool...sounds like a Chinese restaurant), but the MidRealm refuses to allow me to use any of them. Not even a dragon part ("Dragon Claw"...from my mon). So, in a fit if desperation, I decided to use the English translation of my nickname, "Kiri"..."Paulownia". We all loved it, especially the cant on my name. However, I'm now being told that it is not a period word...that it came into use in the 19th century and came from the name of a Russian Princess, somebody or other Pavlovna. Can anyone either give me documentation for the word in period...or the Chinese name for the tree...I'd really rather not try for "Kiri" herald, for obvious reasons.

        Well, unfortunately, it wasn't a Western tree, so it doesn't have a name that was recognizable in the West. It's like the Japanese ume -- we just didn't have it, so some call it plum and some call it apricot, and it's not either, it's an ume.

        In Chinese, it's "tóng" (that's tone 2). The on'yomi (Sino-Japanese reading) in Japanese is "tô."

        Speaking as a Midrealmer, I find the Midrealm refusal a bit petty. So no one, anywhere, can use "dragon" now? Sigh.

        How about "Tongbao"? It means "Paulownia jewel." ("Bao" is fourth tone, falling-rising.) Or "Tongpeng" -- "Paulownia Phoenix" -- since the paulownia is also "the phoenix tree."

        Effingham
      • James Eckman
        ... What a bear for all Ryu s, Ryuko s, Ryusetsu s, etc. (Dragon, Dragon child, oops, I forgot the Setsu character) I wouldn t be surprised if China has
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 7, 2002
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          > From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
          >
          > Speaking as a Midrealmer, I find the Midrealm refusal a bit petty. So no one, anywhere, can use "dragon" now? Sigh.

          What a bear for all Ryu's, Ryuko's, Ryusetsu's, etc. (Dragon, Dragon
          child, oops, I forgot the Setsu character) I wouldn't be surprised if
          China has similar names as well.

          Jim Eckman
        • Elaine Koogler
          I think that the problem was that I was attempting to use it as an heraldic title ( Golden Dragon Herald or the Chinese version of that)...and the Midrealm PH
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 7, 2002
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            I think that the problem was that I was attempting to use it as an heraldic title ("Golden Dragon Herald" or the Chinese version of that)...and the Midrealm PH title is "Dragon". I guess they worried that someone would think that I had an affiliation with the Midrealm.

            Kiri
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: James Eckman
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 9:51 AM
            Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Re: Request for help.....


            > From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
            >
            > Speaking as a Midrealmer, I find the Midrealm refusal a bit petty. So no one, anywhere, can use "dragon" now? Sigh.

            What a bear for all Ryu's, Ryuko's, Ryusetsu's, etc. (Dragon, Dragon
            child, oops, I forgot the Setsu character) I wouldn't be surprised if
            China has similar names as well.

            Jim Eckman

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