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Re: [SCA-JML] I think I'm ready...

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  • Ange and Joanna
    As I understand it, you are in fact supposed to walk on the fabric, with the extra trailing out behind you (at War, I kept having people considerately pointing
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 16, 2002
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      As I understand it, you are in fact supposed to walk on the fabric, with the extra trailing out behind you (at War, I kept having people considerately pointing out that I was "losing" my pants....: )  This pretty much solves the bunching problem.  As to them dropping lower on your waist, I found that I was essentially adopting a kick-step pattern.  I would move the fabric ahead of me with a barely noticeable kick, then step forward.  Needless to say, you don't go anywhere quickly!  I am unsure as to the footwear, I am still new to this, and so since footwear weren't visible, I simply wore socks.
       
      Hope this helps at least a little,
      Tsukiyo
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Emily Glick <jedillore1@...>
      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:11 PM
      Subject: [SCA-JML] I think I'm ready...

      I've been busy.

      I met Kuji and his family over new years and had a very nice time.  They
      invited me to join them for Twelfth Night which is next weekend.

      So I just finished my very first set of garb.

      Huzzah.

      I'm pretty happy with it.  I made what seems to be typical winter day wear
      for a Heian lady.  I did a white kosode and red nagabakama and for over I
      made a hitoe and an uchiki in green and chestnut respectively.  I got the
      colors from one of Solveig's color charts.  I matched them as closely as
      possible.

      I have some questions still though and you are a knowledgeable bunch so
      maybe you can help me out so I don't make an idiot of myself.  :)

      Well its just the pants really.

      Those nagabakama are some "phat" pants.  Laid out on the floor they look
      like pants for a giant.  I can walk in them pretty well as long as I don't
      go too fast but 2 things happen - the first is they get kind of bunched
      around the ankles so that I have to kick my feet free and the second is that
      they get pulled down lower and lower around my waist as I go.  Any
      suggestions on how to keep this from happening or is that normal?  I get the
      impression that women of the Heian era didn't do much hiking.  Also, what
      kind of footwear should I wear?  I was going to wear tabi - is there
      something better?

      Hope all of you had a pleasant holiday.
      -akime-




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    • andreahg2000
      - the first is they get kind of bunched ... second is that ... Well, I have sloved this in two ways. First, I wear my nagabakama at a high waist. We don t
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 16, 2002
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        - the first is they get kind of bunched
        > around the ankles so that I have to kick my feet free and the
        second is that
        > they get pulled down lower and lower around my waist as I go. Any
        > suggestions on how to keep this from happening or is that normal?

        Well, I have sloved this in two ways. First, I wear my nagabakama at
        a high waist. We don't have any pictures that show where the
        waistband lies and there is proof that the Nara fashion was to wear
        the skirts and pants high waisted. Because of my shape, this helps
        them stay up. The other way to avoid slippage is to take tiny little
        shuffling steps. Yeah, it takes a while to gt anywhere and it doesn't
        work on carpet.


        I get the
        > impression that women of the Heian era didn't do much hiking.
        Also, what
        > kind of footwear should I wear? I was going to wear tabi - is
        there
        > something better?

        I either wear plain old socks (nylon trouser socks or knee high
        stockings help to avoid slippage, cotton socks encourage slippage) or
        go bare feet.
        Nadeshiko
      • Anthony J. Bryant
        ... Splendid fellow! Hope you have a spiff time! I was hoping to do 12th Night, but my foot is still out of commission and I can t see myself driving that far
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 16, 2002
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          Emily Glick wrote:

          > I've been busy.
          >
          > I met Kuji and his family over new years and had a very nice time. They
          > invited me to join them for Twelfth Night which is next weekend.
          >

          Splendid fellow! Hope you have a spiff time! I was hoping to do 12th Night, but
          my foot is still out of commission and I can't see myself driving that far just
          to hobble on crutches all afternoon. Maidens will be my "first day out" this
          year...

          >
          > Those nagabakama are some "phat" pants. Laid out on the floor they look
          > like pants for a giant. I can walk in them pretty well as long as I don't
          > go too fast but 2 things happen - the first is they get kind of bunched
          > around the ankles so that I have to kick my feet free and the second is that
          > they get pulled down lower and lower around my waist as I go. Any
          > suggestions on how to keep this from happening or is that normal?

          You have to walk very slowly. Free hands, to kind of pull the garment forward
          as you walk, help. You also have to rethink how you walk; this requires not
          "steps" per se, but more "lift foot only enough to take weight off it, and
          GLIDE the foot forward." Your knees scarcely should move. It's almost as if you
          had skates on.

          > I get the
          > impression that women of the Heian era didn't do much hiking. Also, what
          > kind of footwear should I wear? I was going to wear tabi - is there
          > something better?
          >

          You should be barefoot, ideally.

          Effingham
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... Actually, yes, we do. This is a very high-intensity graphic page, so it takes a while to load, but:
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 16, 2002
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            andreahg2000 wrote:

            > - the first is they get kind of bunched
            > > around the ankles so that I have to kick my feet free and the
            > second is that
            > > they get pulled down lower and lower around my waist as I go. Any
            > > suggestions on how to keep this from happening or is that normal?
            >
            > Well, I have sloved this in two ways. First, I wear my nagabakama at
            > a high waist. We don't have any pictures that show where the
            > waistband lies

            Actually, yes, we do. This is a very high-intensity graphic page, so it
            takes a while to load, but:

            http://sengokudaimyo.com/garb/garbphotos/dressing12.html

            This is a page I put together to show the layers in dressing in a
            karaginu-mo, and there are several photos and sketches showing how the
            nagabakama is worn.


            Effingham
          • andreahg2000
            ... it ... the ... But these are modern pictures, not primary sources. I have yet to see contemporary artwork depicting the waistband of nagabakama. When
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 16, 2002
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              > Actually, yes, we do. This is a very high-intensity graphic page, so
              it
              > takes a while to load, but:
              >
              > http://sengokudaimyo.com/garb/garbphotos/dressing12.html
              >
              > This is a page I put together to show the layers in dressing in a
              > karaginu-mo, and there are several photos and sketches showing how
              the
              > nagabakama is worn.
              >
              >
              > Effingham

              But these are modern pictures, not primary sources. I have yet to see
              contemporary artwork depicting the waistband of nagabakama. When
              discussing this topic with Fujiwara-hime, we both decided that there
              was not enough primary info to place the waistband at either the
              natural or the highwaist and that either could be worn.

              Nadeshiko
            • Jay Trease
              Hi all! I m Gryphon from Mag Mor. I just subscribed to the list on Monday, and have a few questions and would greatly appreciate any help I can get. I m
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 16, 2002
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                Hi all! I'm Gryphon from Mag Mor. I just subscribed
                to the list on Monday, and have a few questions and
                would greatly appreciate any help I can get.

                I'm planning to make Japanese garb to wear at Winter
                War Manuevers in a week and a half. I've more or less
                decided on a kariganu outfit. Here's my quandry. I
                found the kariganu pattern stuff in the file archive,
                but I wanted to make sure I knew how to put one
                together. I've seen several different photos of
                different styles of construction.

                Also, I'm looking for any instruction on putting
                together sashinuki and an eboshi(probably a tate
                eboshi).

                Thanks much.
                Gryphon

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              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... But... um... they re modern photos, yes, but they re referencing Heian fashions. If you play with enough emakimono (picture scrolls) you ll see all these
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 16, 2002
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                  andreahg2000 wrote:

                  > > Actually, yes, we do. This is a very high-intensity graphic page, so
                  > it
                  > > takes a while to load, but:
                  > >
                  > > http://sengokudaimyo.com/garb/garbphotos/dressing12.html
                  > >
                  > > This is a page I put together to show the layers in dressing in a
                  > > karaginu-mo, and there are several photos and sketches showing how
                  > the
                  > > nagabakama is worn.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Effingham
                  >
                  > But these are modern pictures, not primary sources. I have yet to see
                  > contemporary artwork depicting the waistband of nagabakama. When
                  > discussing this topic with Fujiwara-hime, we both decided that there
                  > was not enough primary info to place the waistband at either the
                  > natural or the highwaist and that either could be worn.

                  But... um... they're modern photos, yes, but they're referencing Heian
                  fashions. If you play with enough emakimono (picture scrolls) you'll see all
                  these and more eventually.


                  Effingham
                • Elaine Koogler
                  I have to admit that I cheat. I know that they are supposed to be longer than I am. However, I did try to wear them the way they were supposed to be worn,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 17, 2002
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                    I have to admit that I cheat.  I know that they are supposed to be longer than I am.  However, I did try to wear them the way they were supposed to be worn, and managed not only to just about kill myself by tripping over them, but several others around me, including the Crown Princess at the time (back in the dim red dawn of time, when rocks were soft!)  So I made an executive decision then that I would have to err on the side of safety and common sense and wear them at a length that brushes the top of my feet...sorry guys, but, between two arthritic knees and a bad back...and the fact that I'm usually in a hurry to get to wherever I'm going...I can't afford to be strictly period here!  ;-)
                     
                    Kiri
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: andreahg2000 [mailto:andrea@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:25 AM
                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: I think I'm ready...

                    - the first is they get kind of bunched
                    >   around the ankles so that I have to kick my feet free and the
                    second is that
                    >   they get pulled down lower and lower around my waist as I go.  Any
                    >   suggestions on how to keep this from happening or is that normal?

                    Well, I have sloved this in two ways.  First, I wear my nagabakama at
                    a high waist.  We don't have any pictures that show where the
                    waistband lies and there is proof that the Nara fashion was to wear
                    the skirts and pants high waisted.  Because of my shape, this helps
                    them stay up.  The other way to avoid slippage is to take tiny little
                    shuffling steps.  Yeah, it takes a while to gt anywhere and it doesn't
                    work on carpet.


                    I get the
                    >   impression that women of the Heian era didn't do much hiking.
                    Also, what
                    >   kind of footwear should I wear?  I was going to wear tabi - is
                    there
                    >   something better?

                    I either wear plain old socks (nylon trouser socks or knee high
                    stockings help to avoid slippage, cotton socks encourage slippage) or
                    go bare feet. 
                    Nadeshiko



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                  • andreahg2000
                    ... to be ... Since you admitted it first, I will to. I only wear them long if I know I m not going to be outside at all. I wear them at the top of the feet
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 17, 2002
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                      > I'm usually in a hurry to get to wherever I'm going...I can't afford
                      to be
                      > strictly period here! ;-)
                      >
                      > Kiri
                      >
                      Since you admitted it first, I will to. I only wear them long if I
                      know I'm not going to be outside at all. I wear them at the top of
                      the feet at all outdoor events.

                      Nadeshiko
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