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procedure and attitude

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  • arelyx79
    the wearing of the Daisho in the Samurai class was a symbol of ones status in later period Japan, correct? and when a Samurai went to the house of a guest he
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 6, 2001
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      the wearing of the Daisho in the Samurai class was a symbol of ones
      status in later period Japan, correct? and when a Samurai went to
      the house of a guest he offered up his long sword but retained his
      short sword as a line of defense and also as a badge of station, if i
      remember right. Would there be any instance that you would be asked
      to surrender your short sword? if so, would this be an insult as if
      trying to take away your station? If so who would be likely to ask
      you to give up your short sword and who would be least likely? Also
      does anyone know what the general reaction would be to such an
      occurance??? For example, would your Daimyo be likely to ever ask
      you to surrender your short sword or your buddy Samurai who you've
      gone to visit. Trying to narrow down some specifics here...


      Ukyo
    • mokurai
      Greetings Ukyo-dono, The one instance where you would remove all weapons (that I am aware of) is the tea ceremony. In the confines of the tea room, all
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 7, 2001
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        Greetings Ukyo-dono,

        The one instance where you would remove all weapons (that I am aware of) is
        the tea ceremony. In the confines of the tea room, all participants wee
        expected to be peaceful and to regard each other more or less as equals. It
        was an opportunity for open dialogue and relaxation. Needless to say, there
        are many instances of samurai not wanting to give up all their weapons
        before entering (and generally being considered ill-cultured as a result)
        and of attempted assassinations in the tea room where one could reasonably
        expect one's victim to be unarmed and unsuspecting. Never the less, the
        tradition stood up.

        I also believe that you would be totally unarmed in the imperial palace -
        certainly in the Imperial presence. But not many of our persona would be of
        a high enough rank for this to occur.

        - mokurai





        -----Original Message-----
        From: arelyx79 [mailto:Arelyx@...]
        Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:27 AM
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA-JML] procedure and attitude


        the wearing of the Daisho in the Samurai class was a symbol of ones
        status in later period Japan, correct? and when a Samurai went to
        the house of a guest he offered up his long sword but retained his
        short sword as a line of defense and also as a badge of station, if i
        remember right. Would there be any instance that you would be asked
        to surrender your short sword? if so, would this be an insult as if
        trying to take away your station? If so who would be likely to ask
        you to give up your short sword and who would be least likely? Also
        does anyone know what the general reaction would be to such an
        occurance??? For example, would your Daimyo be likely to ever ask
        you to surrender your short sword or your buddy Samurai who you've
        gone to visit. Trying to narrow down some specifics here...


        Ukyo



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      • vodican
        ukyo-dono/mokurai-dono, durring the later period the wakazashi was always with the samuria durring the tea ceremony. It was placed on the letf side on the
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 7, 2001
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          ukyo-dono/mokurai-dono,

          durring the later period the wakazashi was always with the samuria
          durring the tea ceremony. It was placed on the letf side on the floor
          with the blade parallell to your body with thye blade edge toward your
          body. as to make it dificult to draw quickly. If you placethe blade
          edge away from your body then you are saying you dont trust your
          host/guest. I the imperial palace only those who were of a high
          enough court rank was allowed in so they were deamed worthy of carring
          the wakazashi. No one was allowed to carry a weapon in the presence
          of the emperor or his family. To do so was an imediate order for
          sepuku. You can find more on effinghams web page. Look under the
          miscellany and read the sword artical and the ettiquete and protocal
          artical.

          Hideyoshi yoshimitsu no Ju-hachi-i


          >


          Greetings Ukyo-dono,
          >
          > The one instance where you would remove all weapons (that I am aware
          of) is
          > the tea ceremony. In the confines of the tea room, all participants
          wee
          > expected to be peaceful and to regard each other more or less as
          equals. It
          > was an opportunity for open dialogue and relaxation. Needless to
          say, there
          > are many instances of samurai not wanting to give up all their
          weapons
          > before entering (and generally being considered ill-cultured as a
          result)
          > and of attempted assassinations in the tea room where one could
          reasonably
          > expect one's victim to be unarmed and unsuspecting. Never the less,
          the
          > tradition stood up.
          >
          > I also believe that you would be totally unarmed in the imperial
          palace -
          > certainly in the Imperial presence. But not many of our persona
          would be of
          > a high enough rank for this to occur.
          >
          > - mokurai
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: arelyx79 [mailto:Arelyx@h...]
          > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:27 AM
          > To: sca-jml@y...
          > Subject: [SCA-JML] procedure and attitude
          >
          >
          > the wearing of the Daisho in the Samurai class was a symbol of ones
          > status in later period Japan, correct? and when a Samurai went to
          > the house of a guest he offered up his long sword but retained his
          > short sword as a line of defense and also as a badge of station, if
          i
          > remember right. Would there be any instance that you would be asked
          > to surrender your short sword? if so, would this be an insult as if
          > trying to take away your station? If so who would be likely to ask
          > you to give up your short sword and who would be least likely? Also
          > does anyone know what the general reaction would be to such an
          > occurance??? For example, would your Daimyo be likely to ever ask
          > you to surrender your short sword or your buddy Samurai who you've
          > gone to visit. Trying to narrow down some specifics here...
          >
          >
          > Ukyo
          >
          >
          >
          > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@y...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Carl Grasso
          question... what is proper for sca court? The way to make your dreams come true is to wake up. -Phil Jackson __________________________________________ Get
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 7, 2001
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            question... what is proper for sca court?

            The way to make your dreams come true is to wake up.
            -Phil Jackson
            __________________________________________
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            e-mail from Namezero.com
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          • mokurai
            Typically, you are expected to divest yourself of all steel before entering the presence of the Royals. So you can wear what you want, but if you are called
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 7, 2001
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              Typically, you are expected to divest yourself of all steel before entering
              the presence of the Royals. So you can wear what you want, but if you are
              called up, you have to leave it behind. Some folks make a show of removing
              the weapons and ceremoniously placing them on the floor or some such. It's
              easier to just hand them to a friend. I don't think people worry as much
              about things like eating daggers, though.

              - mokurai


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Carl Grasso [mailto:webmaster@...]
              Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:20 AM
              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: procedure and attitude


              question... what is proper for sca court?

              The way to make your dreams come true is to wake up.
              -Phil Jackson
              __________________________________________
              Get your free domain name and domain-based
              e-mail from Namezero.com
              New! Namezero Plus domains now available.
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            • Ron Martino
              ... Keep in mind, this is quite kingdom-specific. For example, in Artemisia one of the perks of an Award of Arms is the right to enter the Crown s presence
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 7, 2001
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                > Typically, you are expected to divest yourself of all steel before entering
                > the presence of the Royals. So you can wear what you want, but if you are
                > called up, you have to leave it behind. Some folks make a show of removing
                > the weapons and ceremoniously placing them on the floor or some such. It's
                > easier to just hand them to a friend. I don't think people worry as much
                > about things like eating daggers, though.
                >
                > - mokurai

                Keep in mind, this is quite kingdom-specific. For example, in Artemisia
                one of the 'perks' of an Award of Arms is the right to enter the Crown's
                presence while armed. (After all, the theory goes, they are nobles of
                the Court. Why should the Royalty fear their loyalty?)

                Yumitori
                --

                yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com
              • Grim Shieldsson
                To be more precise.. it depends on the kingdom.. in Atenveldt you wear your steel when called up. ... ===== Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows) Acting Chieftain
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 7, 2001
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                  To be more precise.. it depends on the kingdom.. in Atenveldt you wear
                  your steel when called up.

                  --- mokurai <mokurai@...> wrote:
                  > Typically, you are expected to divest yourself of all steel before
                  > entering
                  > the presence of the Royals. So you can wear what you want, but if you
                  > are
                  > called up, you have to leave it behind. Some folks make a show of
                  > removing
                  > the weapons and ceremoniously placing them on the floor or some such.
                  > It's
                  > easier to just hand them to a friend. I don't think people worry as
                  > much
                  > about things like eating daggers, though.
                  >
                  > - mokurai
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Carl Grasso [mailto:webmaster@...]
                  > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:20 AM
                  > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: procedure and attitude
                  >
                  >
                  > question... what is proper for sca court?
                  >
                  > The way to make your dreams come true is to wake up.
                  > -Phil Jackson
                  > __________________________________________
                  > Get your free domain name and domain-based
                  > e-mail from Namezero.com
                  > New! Namezero Plus domains now available.
                  > Find out more at: http://www.namezero.com
                  >
                  >
                  > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  =====
                  Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                  Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                  Barbarian Freehold Alliance
                  Oppurtunity doesn't knock. It only presents itself after you kick down the door.
                  --Kyle Chandler

                  __________________________________________________
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                • Carl Grasso
                  that s what i was thinking. here in the east it is custom to remove the steel. though i ve seen people make a big deal of keeping their sword, even refusing to
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 7, 2001
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                    that's what i was thinking. here in the east it is custom to remove the steel. though i've seen
                    people make a big deal of keeping their sword, even refusing to enter the royal presence without
                    their permission to keep the blade.
                    -seiryu

                    --- Grim Shieldsson <grimshieldsson@...> wrote:
                    > To be more precise.. it depends on the kingdom.. in Atenveldt you wear
                    > your steel when called up.


                    =====
                    http://www.dharmacats.com

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                  • chagin1
                    ... wear ... Doesn t it also depend on your rank ? An award of arms can be held to imply that you can bear arms, and I haven t seen Patents or Grants of
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 13, 2001
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                      --- In sca-jml@y..., Grim Shieldsson <grimshieldsson@y...> wrote:
                      > To be more precise.. it depends on the kingdom.. in Atenveldt you
                      wear
                      > your steel when called up.

                      Doesn't it also depend on your "rank"? An "award of arms" can be
                      held to imply that you can bear arms, and I haven't seen Patents or
                      Grants of Arms divest themselves of weaponry (although most with whom
                      I'm acquainted do not wear huge amounts at court - they've been in
                      long enough that the novelty seems to have worn off seomwhat).

                      - seamus/jutte
                    • Grim Shieldsson
                      That s probably a custom. In Atenveldt, it doesn t matter.. you go up as is. ... ===== Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows) Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 13, 2001
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                        That's probably a custom. In Atenveldt, it doesn't matter.. you go up
                        as is.

                        --- chagin1 <chagin1@...> wrote:
                        > --- In sca-jml@y..., Grim Shieldsson <grimshieldsson@y...> wrote:
                        > > To be more precise.. it depends on the kingdom.. in Atenveldt you
                        > wear
                        > > your steel when called up.
                        >
                        > Doesn't it also depend on your "rank"? An "award of arms" can be
                        > held to imply that you can bear arms, and I haven't seen Patents or
                        > Grants of Arms divest themselves of weaponry (although most with whom
                        >
                        > I'm acquainted do not wear huge amounts at court - they've been in
                        > long enough that the novelty seems to have worn off seomwhat).
                        >
                        > - seamus/jutte
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        =====
                        Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                        Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                        Barbarian Freehold Alliance
                        Oppurtunity doesn't knock. It only presents itself after you kick down the door.
                        --Kyle Chandler

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