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Re: [SCA-JML] Digest Number 563

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  • James Eckman
    ... At least one Shogun swapped his later edition for an original! See The Art of Sumi-E by Shozo Sato . This is post Sengoku though, I believe the correct
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 2, 2001
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      > From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: Re: Too un-period?
      >
      > I suspect that this was an outgrowth of the fact that the Japanese imported
      > Chinese culture wholesale during various periods of their history. The
      > concept of learning by copying the masters was very important in China...to
      > the point that they published "The Mustard Seed Garden Manual of Painting" in
      > the 16th century, which contained examples of work by the various masters of
      > different items (grasses, bamboo, etc.) for the student to copy.

      At least one Shogun swapped his later edition for an original! See "The
      Art of Sumi-E by Shozo Sato". This is post Sengoku though, I believe the
      correct date is 1679. However there are examples of earlier Chinese
      works brought over in various collections.

      http://pages.prodigy.net/fugu/sumi.html

      > From: mneumark@...
      > It's extremely common in europe as well to "copy the masters." In
      > fact, to this day they still make us pee on art students copy
      > Michaelangelo and Carvaggio...all those o artists. I've personally
      > found it very helpful. :)

      It's only been in the last 100 years or so that Western painting stopped
      doing this to a lesser degree. Note that in some arts like photography,
      this is still considered good practice for students. It's also the
      reason we get modern art garbage like gray squares and piles of
      newspapers. The only art involved in that is the art of the confidence
      man.

      Jim Eckman
    • Ron Martino
      ... We re drifting off-topic, but I ll throw in my standard what is art? comments any way... I disagree with those who say such-and-such is not art . Sure
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 3, 2001
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        > It's only been in the last 100 years or so that Western painting stopped
        > doing this to a lesser degree. Note that in some arts like photography,
        > this is still considered good practice for students. It's also the
        > reason we get modern art garbage like gray squares and piles of
        > newspapers. The only art involved in that is the art of the confidence
        > man.
        >
        > Jim Eckman

        We're drifting off-topic, but I'll throw in my standard 'what is art?'
        comments any way...

        I disagree with those who say 'such-and-such is not art'. Sure it is.
        Anything someone calls art is art. It's a big category. But there are
        sub-sets (remember set theory from school?) - successful art and good
        art. They are both part of 'art'. They overlap, but one does not
        entirely contain the other. For example, if I pile up newspapers and
        call it art, it's art. If I sell it for several thousand dollars it is
        successful art. It's probably not /good/ art (but that's more the
        purview of art critics and time). On the other hand, many of the
        acknowledged masters died unappreciated and paupers. Theirs was good
        art, but not successful art (at least not successful to them).

        Art truly is in the eye of the beholder - and the creator.

        --

        yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com
      • Cameron Slayden
        ... as a confidence man myself, i take great offense...:) -c _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 5, 2001
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          >reason we get modern art garbage like gray squares and piles of
          >newspapers. The only art involved in that is the art of the confidence
          >man.

          >Jim Eckman


          as a confidence man myself, i take great offense...:)

          -c

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