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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Re: Too un-period?

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  • Elaine Koogler
    I suspect that this was an outgrowth of the fact that the Japanese imported Chinese culture wholesale during various periods of their history. The concept of
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 2, 2001
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      I suspect that this was an outgrowth of the fact that the Japanese imported
      Chinese culture wholesale during various periods of their history. The
      concept of learning by copying the masters was very important in China...to
      the point that they published "The Mustard Seed Garden Manual of Painting" in
      the 16th century, which contained examples of work by the various masters of
      different items (grasses, bamboo, etc.) for the student to copy.

      Kiri

      James Eckman wrote:

      > Re: Too un-period?
      >
      > > > Ummmm.... I don't think they had orchids.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Effingham
      >
      > I checked some of my art references and the detailed (Northern) style
      > comes to Japan fairly early on. You can have detailed paintings of
      > orchids if such painted decorations are appropriate. Note that this
      > doesn't mean that Japan had orchids, they would have copied them as part
      > of their learning to paint since the orchid is a basic brush stroke.
      > There are also examples of Japanese artists painting what are obviously
      > Chinese landscapes, once again they are copying works from China.
      >
      > This copying instead of painting from nature is actually one of the
      > criticisms leveled at this school, later efforts were thought to be
      > lifeless by some critics.
      >
      > This is the traditional way of learning, copying your master and other
      > past masters until you are proficient enough to strike out on your own.
      > By late Sengoku both the Northern and Southern styles are taught in
      > Japan.
      >
      > Jim Eckman
      >
      >
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      >
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    • mneumark@hotmail.com
      ... imported ... The ... China...to ... Painting in ... masters of ... It s extremely common in europe as well to copy the masters. In fact, to this day
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 2, 2001
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        --- In sca-jml@y..., Elaine Koogler <ekoogler@c...> wrote:
        > I suspect that this was an outgrowth of the fact that the Japanese
        imported
        > Chinese culture wholesale during various periods of their history.
        The
        > concept of learning by copying the masters was very important in
        China...to
        > the point that they published "The Mustard Seed Garden Manual of
        Painting" in
        > the 16th century, which contained examples of work by the various
        masters of
        > different items (grasses, bamboo, etc.) for the student to copy.
        >

        It's extremely common in europe as well to "copy the masters." In
        fact, to this day they still make us pee on art students copy
        Michaelangelo and Carvaggio...all those o artists. I've personally
        found it very helpful. :)

        --Raku-o
      • Chris
        I know that in my field of expertise, electronic music (massively OOP here) I copy the sounds of the great keyboardists and see what I can come up with. And
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 3, 2001
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          I know that in my field of expertise, electronic music (massively OOP here)
          I copy the sounds of the great keyboardists and see what I can come up with.
          And when I write music in Renaissance style, I mimic the style of Susato or
          Praetorius. However, when I write my own music, the only style I copy is my
          own.
          > It's extremely common in europe as well to "copy the masters." In
          > fact, to this day they still make us pee on art students copy
          > Michaelangelo and Carvaggio...all those o artists. I've personally
          > found it very helpful. :)
          >
          > --Raku-o
          Pee on art students? My my!

          Kinoshita Yoshimori

          .
        • James Eckman
          ... I did say it was art, con art ;) What can I say? I m a cranky old guy who likes art that s at least a little bit representational and I like my poetry to
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 4, 2001
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            > From: Ron Martino <yumitori@...>

            > We're drifting off-topic, but I'll throw in my standard 'what is art?'
            > comments any way...
            >
            > I disagree with those who say 'such-and-such is not art'. Sure it is.

            I did say it was art, con art ;) What can I say? I'm a cranky old guy
            who likes art that's at least a little bit representational and I like
            my poetry to rhyme. What a dinosaur!

            This stuff of course exists in period, some of the ink splash paintings
            and super abstracted calligraphy that's unreadable are almost in the
            same category. Since many of the upper class in China set themselves up
            as the arbiters of taste, many of the schools that didn't fit the
            fashion were not successful and most of their works disappeared. In
            Japan they saved almost anything they received from China, so some of
            the older, less known schools are preserved there.

            For a very low brow take on the literati, see "The Flirting Scholar"
            with Gong Li. This may be the ONLY happy Gong Li film!

            Jim Eckman
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