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Re: Trade Pots for Garb (now teaching Japanese Pottery)

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  • mneumark@hotmail.com
    ... took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn everything I can about pottery. And Japanese pottery! I didn t know anyone out there was
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 1, 2001
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      --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
      > Greetings!
      >
      > I don't sew particularly well myself - I can get through it - but I
      took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn
      everything I can about pottery. And Japanese pottery! I didn't know
      anyone out there was doing that! Anytime you care to teach, sign me
      up! And if you think of another barter that my skills might be
      perhaps more suited to, let me know, please. (What, precisely do you
      mean by nicer garb anyway?)
      >

      Greeting Tsukiyo!

      I actually do teach here in Caid...where are you located? Are you
      talking about teaching at Pennsic possibly? My first Pennsic was
      this last one, which was an impulse on my account having just
      apprenticed (at Pennsic) to Master Hroar Stormgengr, a middle realm
      pottery laurel.

      I'm still trying to figure out if I will be going to Pennsic next
      year, but if I do, I WILL try to teach pottery and if there is enough
      people, I am more than willing to teach japanese pottery. Perhaps by
      then I will have a portable raku kiln, but I am not 100% sure (I
      wouldn't want to promise anything...I wouldn't want to disappoint
      people). Is this something this list would like me to do? How many
      would like to see this? I can also possibly do a discussion of
      oribe, shino and tamba wares...a slide show possibly if there is
      enough interest. Many people over here think pottery is nice, but I
      see their eyes glaze over as I go into details (glaze and potters go
      well together), but if you'd like to see this stuff, just let me know
      and I can work on it! :)

      I started the Potter's Guild of Caid and I hope to start posting my
      research projects up there. I wrote a section on Japanese (well, it
      was Chinese, Korean and Japanese) period pottery for a CA project us
      potters are working on. I can sent that section to people if they
      are interested in seeing that at least.

      BTW, if there are people interested in pottery in general, sca-
      potters@yahoogroups.com is open to people. Feel free to add
      yourselves. If you are in Caid, let me know and I can send you info
      on my open studio free classes and the collegiums I am teaching at
      next.

      --Raku (Artemesia Serena)
    • mneumark@hotmail.com
      ... pictures ... glaze ... Oh, yeah! I d do it no problem. ESPECIALLY period examples. Hey, I might even be extra generous if the pictures are VERY
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 1, 2001
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        --- In sca-jml@y..., Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@a...> wrote:
        > Noble Cousin!
        >
        > Greetings from Solveig! Are you willing to make pottery from
        pictures
        > that I send you? For that matter, I may even to arrange to send
        glaze
        > to you as well.

        Oh, yeah! I'd do it no problem. ESPECIALLY period examples. Hey, I
        might even be extra generous if the pictures are VERY detailed,
        specific to everyday use (that can help me do more period japanese
        wares), and dates (any info on the piece, like where it was made, how
        old, what they think it is/how it was made). I own a number of
        japanese pottery books, but not many HAVE sake sets, tea sets or
        plates (every day wear). Mainly ginger/storage jars and bowls.

        --Raku
      • Barbara Nostrand
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink tea. Your
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 1, 2001
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          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those
          bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink tea.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
          --
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
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        • Elaine Koogler
          I would be very interested in any classes that either of you could teach at Pennsic. I ve done pottery, entirely hand-built, and don t have the facilities at
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 2, 2001
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            I would be very interested in any classes that either of you could teach at
            Pennsic. I've done pottery, entirely hand-built, and don't have the
            facilities at the present to do it now....but soon, I hope! I have studied
            both Japanese and Chinese ceramics while working on my Bachelor's and
            Master's, and have several books.

            Kiri

            mneumark@... wrote:

            > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
            > > Greetings!
            > >
            > > I don't sew particularly well myself - I can get through it - but I
            > took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn
            > everything I can about pottery. And Japanese pottery! I didn't know
            > anyone out there was doing that! Anytime you care to teach, sign me
            > up! And if you think of another barter that my skills might be
            > perhaps more suited to, let me know, please. (What, precisely do you
            > mean by nicer garb anyway?)
            > >
            >
            > Greeting Tsukiyo!
            >
            > I actually do teach here in Caid...where are you located? Are you
            > talking about teaching at Pennsic possibly? My first Pennsic was
            > this last one, which was an impulse on my account having just
            > apprenticed (at Pennsic) to Master Hroar Stormgengr, a middle realm
            > pottery laurel.
            >
            > I'm still trying to figure out if I will be going to Pennsic next
            > year, but if I do, I WILL try to teach pottery and if there is enough
            > people, I am more than willing to teach japanese pottery. Perhaps by
            > then I will have a portable raku kiln, but I am not 100% sure (I
            > wouldn't want to promise anything...I wouldn't want to disappoint
            > people). Is this something this list would like me to do? How many
            > would like to see this? I can also possibly do a discussion of
            > oribe, shino and tamba wares...a slide show possibly if there is
            > enough interest. Many people over here think pottery is nice, but I
            > see their eyes glaze over as I go into details (glaze and potters go
            > well together), but if you'd like to see this stuff, just let me know
            > and I can work on it! :)
            >
            > I started the Potter's Guild of Caid and I hope to start posting my
            > research projects up there. I wrote a section on Japanese (well, it
            > was Chinese, Korean and Japanese) period pottery for a CA project us
            > potters are working on. I can sent that section to people if they
            > are interested in seeing that at least.
            >
            > BTW, if there are people interested in pottery in general, sca-
            > potters@yahoogroups.com is open to people. Feel free to add
            > yourselves. If you are in Caid, let me know and I can send you info
            > on my open studio free classes and the collegiums I am teaching at
            > next.
            >
            > --Raku (Artemesia Serena)
            >
            >
            > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • mneumark@hotmail.com
            ... tea. I could be wrong, and since I m not at my house to cross-check, but the tea bowls that the japanese use are different than the chinese ones. The ones
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 2, 2001
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              > Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those
              > bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink
              tea.

              I could be wrong, and since I'm not at my house to cross-check, but
              the tea bowls that the japanese use are different than the chinese
              ones. The ones I was talking about were developed when "The Way of
              Tea" was introduced, which if I'm remembering correctly, is
              Japanese. I believe it all had to do with Wabi and Sabi...I'm sorry
              to be so vague.

              I'll check out my documentation to make sure, but I believe it was
              the Master of Tea during roughly 1578 or so. I found some info off
              the Raku family site that supports what my thoughts are (some
              different sections of it):

              "...These Japanese san cai wares were not, however, called Raku ware
              and it was only after Chojiro had become acquainted with the
              teamaster Sen no Rikyu (1522-1591) and had started making tea bowls
              for the tea ceremony (chanoyu) that Raku ware came into being. It
              could be said that the origin of Raku ware lay in the making of a
              single tea bowl for the tea ceremony."

              "...In this Raku wares reflect more directly than any other kind of
              ceramic the ideals of wabicha, the form of tea ceremony based on the
              aesthetics of wabi advocated by Sen no Rikyu. "

              It goes on how Chojiro's family name was now Raku, etc.

              Hopefully this makes more sense now. These are the tea sets I would
              be making...which isn't EXACTLY a set, per se, but I would make the
              tea bowls and a matching tea pot. Tea bowls would be period, tea pot
              I haven't found much documentation in Japan on tea pots, per se.

              --Raku
            • Munson, Eric
              Greetings Raku-dono, I know Solveig will jump in, but I just wanted to say I know what you re talking about. The thing that s caching us up is that there are
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 2, 2001
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                Greetings Raku-dono,

                I know Solveig will jump in, but I just wanted to say I know what you're
                talking about. The thing that's caching us up is that there are no "sets'
                for tea ceremony. The bowl is singular - an object of veneration during the
                ceremony - it is used and shared by each guest and the tea preparer. There
                is no pot to go with it - the tea powder is mixed with hot water form the
                kettle right in the bowl then wisked. So, if you want to do rakuware tea
                bowls, please do! I, for one, would love to see what you come up with and
                might very happily commission one from you. Do a little internet digging on
                tea ceremony and you'll find more info on the use of the bowls and their
                history besides the work of the Raku masters.

                There are other forms of tea cups and sakezuki you could make as well, but I
                can't advise on them, really except to mention that sake was often poured
                out of what looks to western eyes very much like a huge perfume bottle -
                makes you think of a flower vase.... That might also be an interesting
                project.

                - mokurai

                > ----------
                > From: mneumark@...
                > Reply To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2001 3:53 PM
                > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Trade Pots for Garb
                >
                >
                > > Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those
                > > bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink
                > tea.
                >
                > I could be wrong, and since I'm not at my house to cross-check, but
                > the tea bowls that the japanese use are different than the chinese
                > ones. The ones I was talking about were developed when "The Way of
                > Tea" was introduced, which if I'm remembering correctly, is
                > Japanese. I believe it all had to do with Wabi and Sabi...I'm sorry
                > to be so vague.
                >
                > I'll check out my documentation to make sure, but I believe it was
                > the Master of Tea during roughly 1578 or so. I found some info off
                > the Raku family site that supports what my thoughts are (some
                > different sections of it):
                >
                > "...These Japanese san cai wares were not, however, called Raku ware
                > and it was only after Chojiro had become acquainted with the
                > teamaster Sen no Rikyu (1522-1591) and had started making tea bowls
                > for the tea ceremony (chanoyu) that Raku ware came into being. It
                > could be said that the origin of Raku ware lay in the making of a
                > single tea bowl for the tea ceremony."
                >
                > "...In this Raku wares reflect more directly than any other kind of
                > ceramic the ideals of wabicha, the form of tea ceremony based on the
                > aesthetics of wabi advocated by Sen no Rikyu. "
                >
                > It goes on how Chojiro's family name was now Raku, etc.
                >
                > Hopefully this makes more sense now. These are the tea sets I would
                > be making...which isn't EXACTLY a set, per se, but I would make the
                > tea bowls and a matching tea pot. Tea bowls would be period, tea pot
                > I haven't found much documentation in Japan on tea pots, per se.
                >
                > --Raku
                >
                >
                >
                > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Elaine Koogler
                Raku-dono, The Heibonsha book I mentioned in my private message to you has a lot of really good stuff on tea bowls, some lovely illustrations of period bowls,
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 3, 2001
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                  Raku-dono,
                  The Heibonsha book I mentioned in my private message to you has a lot of really
                  good stuff on tea bowls, some lovely illustrations of period bowls, along with
                  full descriptions of all of the tea ceremony implements. I suspect that, if you
                  wanted to consider a "set" in Japan, it might consist of the bowl, the water
                  jar, the container for the tea itself, etc.

                  Kiri

                  "Munson, Eric" wrote:

                  > Greetings Raku-dono,
                  >
                  > I know Solveig will jump in, but I just wanted to say I know what you're
                  > talking about. The thing that's caching us up is that there are no "sets'
                  > for tea ceremony. The bowl is singular - an object of veneration during the
                  > ceremony - it is used and shared by each guest and the tea preparer. There
                  > is no pot to go with it - the tea powder is mixed with hot water form the
                  > kettle right in the bowl then wisked. So, if you want to do rakuware tea
                  > bowls, please do! I, for one, would love to see what you come up with and
                  > might very happily commission one from you. Do a little internet digging on
                  > tea ceremony and you'll find more info on the use of the bowls and their
                  > history besides the work of the Raku masters.
                  >
                  > There are other forms of tea cups and sakezuki you could make as well, but I
                  > can't advise on them, really except to mention that sake was often poured
                  > out of what looks to western eyes very much like a huge perfume bottle -
                  > makes you think of a flower vase.... That might also be an interesting
                  > project.
                  >
                  > - mokurai
                  >
                  > > ----------
                  > > From: mneumark@...
                  > > Reply To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2001 3:53 PM
                  > > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Trade Pots for Garb
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those
                  > > > bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink
                  > > tea.
                  > >
                  > > I could be wrong, and since I'm not at my house to cross-check, but
                  > > the tea bowls that the japanese use are different than the chinese
                  > > ones. The ones I was talking about were developed when "The Way of
                  > > Tea" was introduced, which if I'm remembering correctly, is
                  > > Japanese. I believe it all had to do with Wabi and Sabi...I'm sorry
                  > > to be so vague.
                  > >
                  > > I'll check out my documentation to make sure, but I believe it was
                  > > the Master of Tea during roughly 1578 or so. I found some info off
                  > > the Raku family site that supports what my thoughts are (some
                  > > different sections of it):
                  > >
                  > > "...These Japanese san cai wares were not, however, called Raku ware
                  > > and it was only after Chojiro had become acquainted with the
                  > > teamaster Sen no Rikyu (1522-1591) and had started making tea bowls
                  > > for the tea ceremony (chanoyu) that Raku ware came into being. It
                  > > could be said that the origin of Raku ware lay in the making of a
                  > > single tea bowl for the tea ceremony."
                  > >
                  > > "...In this Raku wares reflect more directly than any other kind of
                  > > ceramic the ideals of wabicha, the form of tea ceremony based on the
                  > > aesthetics of wabi advocated by Sen no Rikyu. "
                  > >
                  > > It goes on how Chojiro's family name was now Raku, etc.
                  > >
                  > > Hopefully this makes more sense now. These are the tea sets I would
                  > > be making...which isn't EXACTLY a set, per se, but I would make the
                  > > tea bowls and a matching tea pot. Tea bowls would be period, tea pot
                  > > I haven't found much documentation in Japan on tea pots, per se.
                  > >
                  > > --Raku
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Barbara Nostrand
                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! A rather wide variety of bowls have been used for tea. What I was talking about was tea sets . The closest thing that
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 3, 2001
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                    Noble Cousin!

                    Greetings from Solveig! A rather wide variety of bowls have been used
                    for tea. What I was talking about was "tea sets". The closest thing
                    that comes to that is various all in one affairs where you transport
                    the various tea implements in some sort of box such as a tabidansu
                    or a more limited collection of implements in a chabako. However, this
                    sort of arrangement is not of the same sort of fixed everything matches
                    nature that the phrase "tea set" conjures up in my mind. The closest to
                    that in the tea ceremony is various bronze utensils used in conjunction
                    with a daisu. However, these do not have matching tea bowls. This sort
                    of tea usually uses a tenmokujawan.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar
                    --
                    +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                    | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                    | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
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                  • Barbara Nostrand
                    Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Jumping in as predicted. About sake. What we use in the sake ceremony (yes there is a sake ceremony) looks more like a
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 3, 2001
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                      Noble Cousins!

                      Greetings from Solveig! Jumping in as predicted. About sake. What we
                      use in the sake ceremony (yes there is a sake ceremony) looks more like
                      a small cast iron tea pot with either a ceramic or iron lid. The sake
                      is poured into what looks like a lacquer saucer.

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar
                      --
                      +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                      +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
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                    • Barbara Nostrand
                      Noble Cousins! There are some things which have been traditionally matched in some instances. For example, you can have a matched tea bowl, dish rag holder,
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 3, 2001
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                        Noble Cousins!

                        There are some things which have been traditionally matched in some
                        instances. For example, you can have a matched tea bowl, dish rag
                        holder, and tea holder made out of ceramic. Also, you could
                        have matching incense holder, tea whisk holder, and tea holder made
                        out of lacquerware. This sort of set exists. Another sort of set
                        consists of matching bronze water jar, implement holder/flower vase,
                        and waste water container. However, I have not seen a combination
                        of these various sets.

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar
                        --
                        +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                        +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
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                      • Munson, Eric
                        ... I am familiar with both of these, but I was trying to describe the ceramic jars that were used, perhaps for less formal occasions. Sorry to it this way,
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
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                          > ----------
                          > From: Barbara Nostrand
                          > Noble Cousins!
                          >
                          > Greetings from Solveig! Jumping in as predicted. About sake. What we
                          > use in the sake ceremony (yes there is a sake ceremony) looks more like
                          > a small cast iron tea pot with either a ceramic or iron lid. The sake
                          > is poured into what looks like a lacquer saucer.
                          >
                          >
                          I am familiar with both of these, but I was trying to describe the ceramic
                          jars that were used, perhaps for less formal occasions. Sorry to it this
                          way, but being a visual person, I have to: You can see them in Ran in
                          several scenes; like the "two hares" joke in the party scene in the
                          beginning. This was what I was encouraging our potter to try. Unfortunately,
                          I don't know what they would be called.

                          - mokurai
                        • mneumark@hotmail.com
                          ... lot of really ... along with ... that, if you ... the water ... I have one of the Heibonsha books...it goes over stoneware mainly. I found it at Powell s
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
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                            --- In sca-jml@y..., Elaine Koogler <ekoogler@c...> wrote:
                            > Raku-dono,
                            > The Heibonsha book I mentioned in my private message to you has a
                            lot of really
                            > good stuff on tea bowls, some lovely illustrations of period bowls,
                            along with
                            > full descriptions of all of the tea ceremony implements. I suspect
                            that, if you
                            > wanted to consider a "set" in Japan, it might consist of the bowl,
                            the water
                            > jar, the container for the tea itself, etc.
                            >
                            > Kiri

                            I have one of the Heibonsha books...it goes over stoneware mainly. I
                            found it at Powell's (GOD I love that place), but before that on
                            Bibliofind.com (which is now Amazon, I'm afraid) which listed MANY of
                            the Heibonsha volumes, different numbers and prices. I think I have
                            #17. I'll take a closer look at it (I don't remember seeing tea
                            stuff per se...just bottles and regular bowls).

                            Thanks so much for your help tho! I appreciate it!

                            --Raku
                          • mneumark@hotmail.com
                            ... Oooo! Do you have pictures, Solveig? I would LOVE to see matching sets as you ve described (especially if these are period). I especially like the tea
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
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                              --- In sca-jml@y..., Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@a...> wrote:
                              > Noble Cousins!
                              >
                              > There are some things which have been traditionally matched in some
                              > instances. For example, you can have a matched tea bowl, dish rag
                              > holder, and tea holder made out of ceramic. Also, you could
                              > have matching incense holder, tea whisk holder, and tea holder made
                              > out of lacquerware. This sort of set exists. Another sort of set
                              > consists of matching bronze water jar, implement holder/flower vase,
                              > and waste water container. However, I have not seen a combination
                              > of these various sets.

                              Oooo! Do you have pictures, Solveig? I would LOVE to see matching
                              sets as you've described (especially if these are period). I
                              especially like the tea holder ceramic idea. I buy a number of the
                              japanese quilting magazines and they show these lovely place mats,
                              bowls and plates that all match, but I was assuming it wasn't period.

                              I've also been told that both ceramics AND knifes haven't changed all
                              that much stylistically from period. Does anyone know anything about
                              cooking knives? I also do some bladesmithing (not good yet, but
                              practicing). Any book suggestions?

                              --Raku
                            • Elaine Koogler
                              The one I have is #15, and has all of the appropriate equipment used in the tea ceremony, along with wonderful pictures of tea rooms and diagrams of their
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
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                                The one I have is #15, and has all of the appropriate equipment used in the
                                tea ceremony, along with wonderful pictures of tea rooms and diagrams of
                                their floor plans. I've thoroughly enjoyed having it. We have a Japanese
                                store in downtown Washington, DC that usually has a small, but good,
                                selection of books on the various aspects of Japanese culture. That's where
                                I got this!

                                Kiri

                                mneumark@... wrote:

                                > --- In sca-jml@y..., Elaine Koogler <ekoogler@c...> wrote:
                                > > Raku-dono,
                                > > The Heibonsha book I mentioned in my private message to you has a
                                > lot of really
                                > > good stuff on tea bowls, some lovely illustrations of period bowls,
                                > along with
                                > > full descriptions of all of the tea ceremony implements. I suspect
                                > that, if you
                                > > wanted to consider a "set" in Japan, it might consist of the bowl,
                                > the water
                                > > jar, the container for the tea itself, etc.
                                > >
                                > > Kiri
                                >
                                > I have one of the Heibonsha books...it goes over stoneware mainly. I
                                > found it at Powell's (GOD I love that place), but before that on
                                > Bibliofind.com (which is now Amazon, I'm afraid) which listed MANY of
                                > the Heibonsha volumes, different numbers and prices. I think I have
                                > #17. I'll take a closer look at it (I don't remember seeing tea
                                > stuff per se...just bottles and regular bowls).
                                >
                                > Thanks so much for your help tho! I appreciate it!
                                >
                                > --Raku
                                >
                                >
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                              • Barbara Nostrand
                                Mokurai Bozu! Greetings from Solveig! When in doubt, call the shubin (alcohol bottles) or sake yô dobin. (Earthenware bottles used for sake.) Not being one to
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
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                                  Mokurai Bozu!

                                  Greetings from Solveig! When in doubt, call the shubin (alcohol bottles)
                                  or sake yô dobin. (Earthenware bottles used for sake.) Not being one to
                                  imbibe much alcohol, I don't know what they are really called.

                                  Your Humble Servant
                                  Solveig Throndardottir
                                  Amateur Scholar
                                  --
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                                • Anthony J. Bryant
                                  ... That type of bottle -- and similar sake jars -- are called heiji. You can actually still buy them today, but they are primarily seen now as Shinto
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
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                                    "Munson, Eric" wrote:

                                    >
                                    > I am familiar with both of these, but I was trying to describe the ceramic
                                    > jars that were used, perhaps for less formal occasions. Sorry to it this
                                    > way, but being a visual person, I have to: You can see them in Ran in
                                    > several scenes; like the "two hares" joke in the party scene in the
                                    > beginning. This was what I was encouraging our potter to try. Unfortunately,
                                    > I don't know what they would be called.

                                    That type of bottle -- and similar sake jars -- are called "heiji."

                                    You can actually still buy them today, but they are primarily seen now as
                                    Shinto offering thingies, as people buy sake *now* in glass bottles or cans,
                                    and then decant a bit into a tokkuri from which to serve.

                                    Heiji came in a great variety of sizes, and some variety of shapes.

                                    For the pottery junkies here, I did some looking for some images:

                                    Nice Muromachi-era heiji (this is a very famous piece):
                                    http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_27.html

                                    Here's a site selling heiji as Shinto supplies.
                                    http://www.na.rim.or.jp/~yamagen/ryohan/heiji/heiji.html

                                    Kamakura-era heiji:
                                    http://www.city.kani.gifu.jp/topics/tokubetuten1/k080.htm

                                    Kamakura-era Seto ootsubo ("big pot"):
                                    http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_51.html


                                    Other stuff ---
                                    Momoyama-era Mino tea bowl:
                                    http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_54.html

                                    Momoyama-era Sake bowl:
                                    http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_a23.html

                                    In Japanese. Cool Suntory properties for artifact junkies:
                                    http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/touji_f.html

                                    In Japanese, but this is the site of a display of the pottery works in the
                                    museum of Kanazawa University (click any of the numbers and keep clicking
                                    "next" next to the graphics to move along):
                                    http://web.kanazawa-u.ac.jp/~shiryo/akegarasu1/akegarasu_frame.html

                                    English: History of Mino ware:
                                    http://www.com.rd.pref.gifu.jp/industry/ceramics/history/index-e.html

                                    English: Hakone Museum, pottery thingies:
                                    http://www.e-yakimono.net/html/hakone_museum.html



                                    Effingham
                                  • Elaine Koogler
                                    Edward-dono, Thanks so much for sharing this. I love Japanese pottery, and looking at these items was a real treat for me! Kiri
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Oct 5, 2001
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                                      Edward-dono,
                                      Thanks so much for sharing this. I love Japanese pottery, and looking at these
                                      items was a real treat for me!

                                      Kiri

                                      "Anthony J. Bryant" wrote:

                                      > "Munson, Eric" wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > I am familiar with both of these, but I was trying to describe the ceramic
                                      > > jars that were used, perhaps for less formal occasions. Sorry to it this
                                      > > way, but being a visual person, I have to: You can see them in Ran in
                                      > > several scenes; like the "two hares" joke in the party scene in the
                                      > > beginning. This was what I was encouraging our potter to try. Unfortunately,
                                      > > I don't know what they would be called.
                                      >
                                      > That type of bottle -- and similar sake jars -- are called "heiji."
                                      >
                                      > You can actually still buy them today, but they are primarily seen now as
                                      > Shinto offering thingies, as people buy sake *now* in glass bottles or cans,
                                      > and then decant a bit into a tokkuri from which to serve.
                                      >
                                      > Heiji came in a great variety of sizes, and some variety of shapes.
                                      >
                                      > For the pottery junkies here, I did some looking for some images:
                                      >
                                      > Nice Muromachi-era heiji (this is a very famous piece):
                                      > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_27.html
                                      >
                                      > Here's a site selling heiji as Shinto supplies.
                                      > http://www.na.rim.or.jp/~yamagen/ryohan/heiji/heiji.html
                                      >
                                      > Kamakura-era heiji:
                                      > http://www.city.kani.gifu.jp/topics/tokubetuten1/k080.htm
                                      >
                                      > Kamakura-era Seto ootsubo ("big pot"):
                                      > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_51.html
                                      >
                                      > Other stuff ---
                                      > Momoyama-era Mino tea bowl:
                                      > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_54.html
                                      >
                                      > Momoyama-era Sake bowl:
                                      > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_a23.html
                                      >
                                      > In Japanese. Cool Suntory properties for artifact junkies:
                                      > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/touji_f.html
                                      >
                                      > In Japanese, but this is the site of a display of the pottery works in the
                                      > museum of Kanazawa University (click any of the numbers and keep clicking
                                      > "next" next to the graphics to move along):
                                      > http://web.kanazawa-u.ac.jp/~shiryo/akegarasu1/akegarasu_frame.html
                                      >
                                      > English: History of Mino ware:
                                      > http://www.com.rd.pref.gifu.jp/industry/ceramics/history/index-e.html
                                      >
                                      > English: Hakone Museum, pottery thingies:
                                      > http://www.e-yakimono.net/html/hakone_museum.html
                                      >
                                      > Effingham
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      >
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                                    • Ange and Joanna
                                      I am located in the East, in Pa, to be more specific. I plan on being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would be able to put together! A
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Oct 5, 2001
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                                        I am located in the East, in Pa, to be more specific.  I plan on being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would be able to put together! 
                                         
                                        A portable raku kiln?  How is such a beastie constructed?  
                                         
                                        I would love to hear the nitty-gritty details on glazes, and would be very, very interested in your CA piece.  I have to admit, I generally learn best either by reading, or in a hands-on class ( I have a sleep disorder - mild, but it makes taking lecture classes difficult) but if you don't mind someone nodding off in your class, I'd be happy to take in what I could.  Whereabouts in Caid are you?
                                         
                                        Thanks for the tip about the potter's list, I am just beginning, and can use any information I can get my hands on....
                                         
                                        gratefully,
                                        Tsukiyo
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: mneumark@... <mneumark@...>
                                        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Date: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:19 AM
                                        Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Trade Pots for Garb (now teaching Japanese Pottery)

                                        --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
                                        > Greetings!
                                        >
                                        > I don't sew particularly well myself - I can get through it - but I
                                        took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn
                                        everything I can about pottery.  And Japanese pottery!  I didn't know
                                        anyone out there was doing that!   Anytime you care to teach, sign me
                                        up!  And if you think of another barter that my skills might be
                                        perhaps more suited to, let me know, please.  (What, precisely do you
                                        mean by nicer garb anyway?) 
                                        >

                                        Greeting Tsukiyo!

                                        I actually do teach here in Caid...where are you located?  Are you
                                        talking about teaching at Pennsic possibly?  My first Pennsic was
                                        this last one, which was an impulse on my account having just
                                        apprenticed (at Pennsic) to Master Hroar Stormgengr, a middle realm
                                        pottery laurel.

                                        I'm still trying to figure out if I will be going to Pennsic next
                                        year, but if I do, I WILL try to teach pottery and if there is enough
                                        people, I am more than willing to teach japanese pottery.  Perhaps by
                                        then I will have a portable raku kiln, but I am not 100% sure (I
                                        wouldn't want to promise anything...I wouldn't want to disappoint
                                        people).  Is this something this list would like me to do?  How many
                                        would like to see this?  I can also possibly do a discussion of
                                        oribe, shino and tamba wares...a slide show possibly if there is
                                        enough interest.  Many people over here think pottery is nice, but I
                                        see their eyes glaze over as I go into details (glaze and potters go
                                        well together), but if you'd like to see this stuff, just let me know
                                        and I can work on it! :)

                                        I started the Potter's Guild of Caid and I hope to start posting my
                                        research projects up there.  I wrote a section on Japanese (well, it
                                        was Chinese, Korean and Japanese) period pottery for a CA project us
                                        potters are working on.  I can sent that section to people if they
                                        are interested in seeing that at least.

                                        BTW, if there are people interested in pottery in general, sca-
                                        potters@yahoogroups.com is open to people.  Feel free to add
                                        yourselves.  If you are in Caid, let me know and I can send you info
                                        on my open studio free classes and the collegiums I am teaching at
                                        next.

                                        --Raku (Artemesia Serena)



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                                      • Anthony J. Bryant
                                        ... My pleasure. I was kinda drooling as a looked at them myself. Now my keyboard is waterlogged. Effingham
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Oct 6, 2001
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                                          Elaine Koogler wrote:

                                          > Edward-dono,
                                          > Thanks so much for sharing this. I love Japanese pottery, and looking at these
                                          > items was a real treat for me!

                                          My pleasure.

                                          I was kinda drooling as a looked at them myself.

                                          Now my keyboard is waterlogged.


                                          Effingham
                                        • mneumark@hotmail.com
                                          Baron Edward! Thanks SO much for the links! Whenever I look for stuff, all I find are modern stuff. You rule! Woo-hoo! ::happy potter dance:: I m telling
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Oct 8, 2001
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                                            Baron Edward!

                                            Thanks SO much for the links! Whenever I look for stuff, all I find
                                            are modern stuff. You rule! Woo-hoo! ::happy potter dance::

                                            I'm telling my laurel how great you are! (Like he didn't know
                                            already...right!) :)

                                            --Raku
                                          • mneumark@hotmail.com
                                            ... being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would be able to put together! ... I m going to have to see what my financial issues will be,
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Oct 9, 2001
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                                              --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
                                              > I am located in the East, in Pa, to be more specific. I plan on
                                              being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would
                                              be able to put together!
                                              >

                                              I'm going to have to see what my financial issues will be, and what
                                              can be done in general at Pennsic. So people would be interested in
                                              classes on the history of asian ceramics too? Or just how to stuff?

                                              > A portable raku kiln? How is such a beastie constructed?
                                              >

                                              There are a few different options...depending on my resources at the
                                              time. Fire bricks, mud and propaine, basically can be done rather
                                              easily. The cool portable is pre-made...it's like a portable furnace
                                              (like what the metalworkers use to melt metal) only made of special
                                              fiber. They run around $900. I'm saving up for one now. :)

                                              > I would love to hear the nitty-gritty details on glazes, and would
                                              be very, very interested in your CA piece.>

                                              I live in the San Fernando Valley, near Los Angeles (a skip from
                                              Little Tokyo and the garment districts). I'll dig up my article and
                                              try to post it to the files section. I might even have it
                                              handy...remind me if I flake.

                                              We can talk off line about glazes...I don't want to bore this list
                                              with details, unless there are other people interested in this sort
                                              of stuff.

                                              > Thanks for the tip about the potter's list, I am just beginning,
                                              and can use any information I can get my hands on....
                                              >

                                              You're welcome!

                                              --Raku
                                            • Elaine Koogler
                                              You might want to get in touch with Stefan li Rous (address above) who does Stefan s Florilegium. I m sure he d be interested in putting whatever information
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Oct 9, 2001
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                                                You might want to get in touch with Stefan li Rous (address above) who does
                                                Stefan's Florilegium. I'm sure he'd be interested in putting whatever
                                                information you have on his site. He has all sorts of stuff there, about all
                                                kinds of things, that he gleans off of a number of different lists, including
                                                the Rialto, etc. I suspect, knowing Stefan, that he's love to have anything
                                                you can give him!

                                                Kiri

                                                mneumark@... wrote:

                                                > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
                                                > > I am located in the East, in Pa, to be more specific. I plan on
                                                > being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would
                                                > be able to put together!
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > I'm going to have to see what my financial issues will be, and what
                                                > can be done in general at Pennsic. So people would be interested in
                                                > classes on the history of asian ceramics too? Or just how to stuff?
                                                >
                                                > > A portable raku kiln? How is such a beastie constructed?
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > There are a few different options...depending on my resources at the
                                                > time. Fire bricks, mud and propaine, basically can be done rather
                                                > easily. The cool portable is pre-made...it's like a portable furnace
                                                > (like what the metalworkers use to melt metal) only made of special
                                                > fiber. They run around $900. I'm saving up for one now. :)
                                                >
                                                > > I would love to hear the nitty-gritty details on glazes, and would
                                                > be very, very interested in your CA piece.>
                                                >
                                                > I live in the San Fernando Valley, near Los Angeles (a skip from
                                                > Little Tokyo and the garment districts). I'll dig up my article and
                                                > try to post it to the files section. I might even have it
                                                > handy...remind me if I flake.
                                                >
                                                > We can talk off line about glazes...I don't want to bore this list
                                                > with details, unless there are other people interested in this sort
                                                > of stuff.
                                                >
                                                > > Thanks for the tip about the potter's list, I am just beginning,
                                                > and can use any information I can get my hands on....
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > You're welcome!
                                                >
                                                > --Raku
                                                >
                                                >
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