Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Trade Pots for Garb

Expand Messages
  • mneumark@hotmail.com
    Greetings Everyone! I don t really sew well. My mom sews great, but refuses to sew off any pattern that isn t simplicity or one of those types of patterns
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 28, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Greetings Everyone!

      I don't really sew well. My mom sews great, but refuses to sew off
      any pattern that isn't simplicity or one of those types of patterns
      (even folkware she won't touch...it HAS to be printed and looking
      very professional). I want nice japanese female garb. I'm tired of
      wearing non-period men's kimono's because that's all I can do.

      I do pottery. I do JAPANESE pottery. Maybe someone out there would
      consider sewing me garb if I make you, say, a tea pot with some
      matching tea bowls? Or how about some period feast gear? Huh?
      Anyone? Anyone? Bueler?

      Please contact me privately if you're interested. If you were at
      Pennsic, you may have seen a traditional tea bowl I made for Edward.
      I also do shino and oribewares! And porcelain! I think I might be
      one of the only potters in the SCA that does porcelain japanese ware!
      If you need pictures of some of the stuff I do, I can send some to
      you. Let me know.

      Thanks for the bandwidth...sorry!

      --Raku (Artemesia Serena, potter of Caid)
    • Ange and Joanna
      Greetings! I don t sew particularly well myself - I can get through it - but I took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn everything I can
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 28, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Greetings!
         
        I don't sew particularly well myself - I can get through it - but I took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn everything I can about pottery.  And Japanese pottery!  I didn't know anyone out there was doing that!   Anytime you care to teach, sign me up!  And if you think of another barter that my skills might be perhaps more suited to, let me know, please.  (What, precisely do you mean by nicer garb anyway?) 
         
        I did see your request that we post to you privately, but I risked using bandwith because I thought others might be interested in begging classes as well....
         
        In awe,
        Tsukiyo
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: mneumark@... <mneumark@...>
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Friday, September 28, 2001 6:21 PM
        Subject: [SCA-JML] Trade Pots for Garb

        Greetings Everyone!

        I don't really sew well.  My mom sews great, but refuses to sew off
        any pattern that isn't simplicity or one of those types of patterns
        (even folkware she won't touch...it HAS to be printed and looking
        very professional).  I want nice japanese female garb.  I'm tired of
        wearing non-period men's kimono's because that's all I can do.

        I do pottery.  I do JAPANESE pottery.  Maybe someone out there would
        consider sewing me garb if I make you, say, a tea pot with some
        matching tea bowls?  Or how about some period feast gear?  Huh? 
        Anyone?  Anyone? Bueler?

        Please contact me privately if you're interested.  If you were at
        Pennsic, you may have seen a traditional tea bowl I made for Edward. 
        I also do shino and oribewares!  And porcelain!  I think I might be
        one of the only potters in the SCA that does porcelain japanese ware!
        If you need pictures of some of the stuff I do, I can send some to
        you.  Let me know.

        Thanks for the bandwidth...sorry!

        --Raku (Artemesia Serena, potter of Caid)



        UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Barbara Nostrand
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Are you willing to make pottery from pictures that I send you? For that matter, I may even to arrange to send glaze to
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 29, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig! Are you willing to make pottery from pictures
          that I send you? For that matter, I may even to arrange to send glaze
          to you as well.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
          --
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
          | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
          | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
          | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
          | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
          | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
          | techie.com, msn.com |
          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
        • Markejag@aol.com
          I could consider it, but I have a sake container and winter sake cups (those, I believe are the more flat, saucer shaped sake cups) in mind. Think of it
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 29, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            I could consider it, but I have a sake container and "winter" sake cups (those, I believe are the more flat, saucer shaped sake cups) in mind.  Think of it this way, get multiple people to make more than one set of garb and do all your pottery in one firing?
            So how about it? A kosode or kimono for a sake set?

            Bun-ami

            In a message dated 9/28/01 6:43:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mneumark@... writes:


            I do pottery.  I do JAPANESE pottery.  Maybe someone out there would
            consider sewing me garb if I make you, say, a tea pot with some
            matching tea bowls?  Or how about some period feast gear?  Huh?  
            Anyone?  Anyone? Bueler?


          • mneumark@hotmail.com
            ... took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn everything I can about pottery. And Japanese pottery! I didn t know anyone out there was
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 1, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
              > Greetings!
              >
              > I don't sew particularly well myself - I can get through it - but I
              took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn
              everything I can about pottery. And Japanese pottery! I didn't know
              anyone out there was doing that! Anytime you care to teach, sign me
              up! And if you think of another barter that my skills might be
              perhaps more suited to, let me know, please. (What, precisely do you
              mean by nicer garb anyway?)
              >

              Greeting Tsukiyo!

              I actually do teach here in Caid...where are you located? Are you
              talking about teaching at Pennsic possibly? My first Pennsic was
              this last one, which was an impulse on my account having just
              apprenticed (at Pennsic) to Master Hroar Stormgengr, a middle realm
              pottery laurel.

              I'm still trying to figure out if I will be going to Pennsic next
              year, but if I do, I WILL try to teach pottery and if there is enough
              people, I am more than willing to teach japanese pottery. Perhaps by
              then I will have a portable raku kiln, but I am not 100% sure (I
              wouldn't want to promise anything...I wouldn't want to disappoint
              people). Is this something this list would like me to do? How many
              would like to see this? I can also possibly do a discussion of
              oribe, shino and tamba wares...a slide show possibly if there is
              enough interest. Many people over here think pottery is nice, but I
              see their eyes glaze over as I go into details (glaze and potters go
              well together), but if you'd like to see this stuff, just let me know
              and I can work on it! :)

              I started the Potter's Guild of Caid and I hope to start posting my
              research projects up there. I wrote a section on Japanese (well, it
              was Chinese, Korean and Japanese) period pottery for a CA project us
              potters are working on. I can sent that section to people if they
              are interested in seeing that at least.

              BTW, if there are people interested in pottery in general, sca-
              potters@yahoogroups.com is open to people. Feel free to add
              yourselves. If you are in Caid, let me know and I can send you info
              on my open studio free classes and the collegiums I am teaching at
              next.

              --Raku (Artemesia Serena)
            • mneumark@hotmail.com
              ... pictures ... glaze ... Oh, yeah! I d do it no problem. ESPECIALLY period examples. Hey, I might even be extra generous if the pictures are VERY
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 1, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In sca-jml@y..., Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@a...> wrote:
                > Noble Cousin!
                >
                > Greetings from Solveig! Are you willing to make pottery from
                pictures
                > that I send you? For that matter, I may even to arrange to send
                glaze
                > to you as well.

                Oh, yeah! I'd do it no problem. ESPECIALLY period examples. Hey, I
                might even be extra generous if the pictures are VERY detailed,
                specific to everyday use (that can help me do more period japanese
                wares), and dates (any info on the piece, like where it was made, how
                old, what they think it is/how it was made). I own a number of
                japanese pottery books, but not many HAVE sake sets, tea sets or
                plates (every day wear). Mainly ginger/storage jars and bowls.

                --Raku
              • Barbara Nostrand
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink tea. Your
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 1, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those
                  bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink tea.

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar
                  --
                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
                  | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
                  | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
                  | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
                  | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
                  | techie.com, msn.com |
                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                • Elaine Koogler
                  I would be very interested in any classes that either of you could teach at Pennsic. I ve done pottery, entirely hand-built, and don t have the facilities at
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 2, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I would be very interested in any classes that either of you could teach at
                    Pennsic. I've done pottery, entirely hand-built, and don't have the
                    facilities at the present to do it now....but soon, I hope! I have studied
                    both Japanese and Chinese ceramics while working on my Bachelor's and
                    Master's, and have several books.

                    Kiri

                    mneumark@... wrote:

                    > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
                    > > Greetings!
                    > >
                    > > I don't sew particularly well myself - I can get through it - but I
                    > took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn
                    > everything I can about pottery. And Japanese pottery! I didn't know
                    > anyone out there was doing that! Anytime you care to teach, sign me
                    > up! And if you think of another barter that my skills might be
                    > perhaps more suited to, let me know, please. (What, precisely do you
                    > mean by nicer garb anyway?)
                    > >
                    >
                    > Greeting Tsukiyo!
                    >
                    > I actually do teach here in Caid...where are you located? Are you
                    > talking about teaching at Pennsic possibly? My first Pennsic was
                    > this last one, which was an impulse on my account having just
                    > apprenticed (at Pennsic) to Master Hroar Stormgengr, a middle realm
                    > pottery laurel.
                    >
                    > I'm still trying to figure out if I will be going to Pennsic next
                    > year, but if I do, I WILL try to teach pottery and if there is enough
                    > people, I am more than willing to teach japanese pottery. Perhaps by
                    > then I will have a portable raku kiln, but I am not 100% sure (I
                    > wouldn't want to promise anything...I wouldn't want to disappoint
                    > people). Is this something this list would like me to do? How many
                    > would like to see this? I can also possibly do a discussion of
                    > oribe, shino and tamba wares...a slide show possibly if there is
                    > enough interest. Many people over here think pottery is nice, but I
                    > see their eyes glaze over as I go into details (glaze and potters go
                    > well together), but if you'd like to see this stuff, just let me know
                    > and I can work on it! :)
                    >
                    > I started the Potter's Guild of Caid and I hope to start posting my
                    > research projects up there. I wrote a section on Japanese (well, it
                    > was Chinese, Korean and Japanese) period pottery for a CA project us
                    > potters are working on. I can sent that section to people if they
                    > are interested in seeing that at least.
                    >
                    > BTW, if there are people interested in pottery in general, sca-
                    > potters@yahoogroups.com is open to people. Feel free to add
                    > yourselves. If you are in Caid, let me know and I can send you info
                    > on my open studio free classes and the collegiums I am teaching at
                    > next.
                    >
                    > --Raku (Artemesia Serena)
                    >
                    >
                    > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • mneumark@hotmail.com
                    ... tea. I could be wrong, and since I m not at my house to cross-check, but the tea bowls that the japanese use are different than the chinese ones. The ones
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 2, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those
                      > bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink
                      tea.

                      I could be wrong, and since I'm not at my house to cross-check, but
                      the tea bowls that the japanese use are different than the chinese
                      ones. The ones I was talking about were developed when "The Way of
                      Tea" was introduced, which if I'm remembering correctly, is
                      Japanese. I believe it all had to do with Wabi and Sabi...I'm sorry
                      to be so vague.

                      I'll check out my documentation to make sure, but I believe it was
                      the Master of Tea during roughly 1578 or so. I found some info off
                      the Raku family site that supports what my thoughts are (some
                      different sections of it):

                      "...These Japanese san cai wares were not, however, called Raku ware
                      and it was only after Chojiro had become acquainted with the
                      teamaster Sen no Rikyu (1522-1591) and had started making tea bowls
                      for the tea ceremony (chanoyu) that Raku ware came into being. It
                      could be said that the origin of Raku ware lay in the making of a
                      single tea bowl for the tea ceremony."

                      "...In this Raku wares reflect more directly than any other kind of
                      ceramic the ideals of wabicha, the form of tea ceremony based on the
                      aesthetics of wabi advocated by Sen no Rikyu. "

                      It goes on how Chojiro's family name was now Raku, etc.

                      Hopefully this makes more sense now. These are the tea sets I would
                      be making...which isn't EXACTLY a set, per se, but I would make the
                      tea bowls and a matching tea pot. Tea bowls would be period, tea pot
                      I haven't found much documentation in Japan on tea pots, per se.

                      --Raku
                    • Munson, Eric
                      Greetings Raku-dono, I know Solveig will jump in, but I just wanted to say I know what you re talking about. The thing that s caching us up is that there are
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 2, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Greetings Raku-dono,

                        I know Solveig will jump in, but I just wanted to say I know what you're
                        talking about. The thing that's caching us up is that there are no "sets'
                        for tea ceremony. The bowl is singular - an object of veneration during the
                        ceremony - it is used and shared by each guest and the tea preparer. There
                        is no pot to go with it - the tea powder is mixed with hot water form the
                        kettle right in the bowl then wisked. So, if you want to do rakuware tea
                        bowls, please do! I, for one, would love to see what you come up with and
                        might very happily commission one from you. Do a little internet digging on
                        tea ceremony and you'll find more info on the use of the bowls and their
                        history besides the work of the Raku masters.

                        There are other forms of tea cups and sakezuki you could make as well, but I
                        can't advise on them, really except to mention that sake was often poured
                        out of what looks to western eyes very much like a huge perfume bottle -
                        makes you think of a flower vase.... That might also be an interesting
                        project.

                        - mokurai

                        > ----------
                        > From: mneumark@...
                        > Reply To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2001 3:53 PM
                        > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Trade Pots for Garb
                        >
                        >
                        > > Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those
                        > > bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink
                        > tea.
                        >
                        > I could be wrong, and since I'm not at my house to cross-check, but
                        > the tea bowls that the japanese use are different than the chinese
                        > ones. The ones I was talking about were developed when "The Way of
                        > Tea" was introduced, which if I'm remembering correctly, is
                        > Japanese. I believe it all had to do with Wabi and Sabi...I'm sorry
                        > to be so vague.
                        >
                        > I'll check out my documentation to make sure, but I believe it was
                        > the Master of Tea during roughly 1578 or so. I found some info off
                        > the Raku family site that supports what my thoughts are (some
                        > different sections of it):
                        >
                        > "...These Japanese san cai wares were not, however, called Raku ware
                        > and it was only after Chojiro had become acquainted with the
                        > teamaster Sen no Rikyu (1522-1591) and had started making tea bowls
                        > for the tea ceremony (chanoyu) that Raku ware came into being. It
                        > could be said that the origin of Raku ware lay in the making of a
                        > single tea bowl for the tea ceremony."
                        >
                        > "...In this Raku wares reflect more directly than any other kind of
                        > ceramic the ideals of wabicha, the form of tea ceremony based on the
                        > aesthetics of wabi advocated by Sen no Rikyu. "
                        >
                        > It goes on how Chojiro's family name was now Raku, etc.
                        >
                        > Hopefully this makes more sense now. These are the tea sets I would
                        > be making...which isn't EXACTLY a set, per se, but I would make the
                        > tea bowls and a matching tea pot. Tea bowls would be period, tea pot
                        > I haven't found much documentation in Japan on tea pots, per se.
                        >
                        > --Raku
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Elaine Koogler
                        Raku-dono, The Heibonsha book I mentioned in my private message to you has a lot of really good stuff on tea bowls, some lovely illustrations of period bowls,
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 3, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Raku-dono,
                          The Heibonsha book I mentioned in my private message to you has a lot of really
                          good stuff on tea bowls, some lovely illustrations of period bowls, along with
                          full descriptions of all of the tea ceremony implements. I suspect that, if you
                          wanted to consider a "set" in Japan, it might consist of the bowl, the water
                          jar, the container for the tea itself, etc.

                          Kiri

                          "Munson, Eric" wrote:

                          > Greetings Raku-dono,
                          >
                          > I know Solveig will jump in, but I just wanted to say I know what you're
                          > talking about. The thing that's caching us up is that there are no "sets'
                          > for tea ceremony. The bowl is singular - an object of veneration during the
                          > ceremony - it is used and shared by each guest and the tea preparer. There
                          > is no pot to go with it - the tea powder is mixed with hot water form the
                          > kettle right in the bowl then wisked. So, if you want to do rakuware tea
                          > bowls, please do! I, for one, would love to see what you come up with and
                          > might very happily commission one from you. Do a little internet digging on
                          > tea ceremony and you'll find more info on the use of the bowls and their
                          > history besides the work of the Raku masters.
                          >
                          > There are other forms of tea cups and sakezuki you could make as well, but I
                          > can't advise on them, really except to mention that sake was often poured
                          > out of what looks to western eyes very much like a huge perfume bottle -
                          > makes you think of a flower vase.... That might also be an interesting
                          > project.
                          >
                          > - mokurai
                          >
                          > > ----------
                          > > From: mneumark@...
                          > > Reply To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2001 3:53 PM
                          > > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Trade Pots for Garb
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > Greetings from Solveig! Tea sets are pretty much non-Japanese. Those
                          > > > bowls are probably called chawan (tea bowls) and are used to drink
                          > > tea.
                          > >
                          > > I could be wrong, and since I'm not at my house to cross-check, but
                          > > the tea bowls that the japanese use are different than the chinese
                          > > ones. The ones I was talking about were developed when "The Way of
                          > > Tea" was introduced, which if I'm remembering correctly, is
                          > > Japanese. I believe it all had to do with Wabi and Sabi...I'm sorry
                          > > to be so vague.
                          > >
                          > > I'll check out my documentation to make sure, but I believe it was
                          > > the Master of Tea during roughly 1578 or so. I found some info off
                          > > the Raku family site that supports what my thoughts are (some
                          > > different sections of it):
                          > >
                          > > "...These Japanese san cai wares were not, however, called Raku ware
                          > > and it was only after Chojiro had become acquainted with the
                          > > teamaster Sen no Rikyu (1522-1591) and had started making tea bowls
                          > > for the tea ceremony (chanoyu) that Raku ware came into being. It
                          > > could be said that the origin of Raku ware lay in the making of a
                          > > single tea bowl for the tea ceremony."
                          > >
                          > > "...In this Raku wares reflect more directly than any other kind of
                          > > ceramic the ideals of wabicha, the form of tea ceremony based on the
                          > > aesthetics of wabi advocated by Sen no Rikyu. "
                          > >
                          > > It goes on how Chojiro's family name was now Raku, etc.
                          > >
                          > > Hopefully this makes more sense now. These are the tea sets I would
                          > > be making...which isn't EXACTLY a set, per se, but I would make the
                          > > tea bowls and a matching tea pot. Tea bowls would be period, tea pot
                          > > I haven't found much documentation in Japan on tea pots, per se.
                          > >
                          > > --Raku
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Barbara Nostrand
                          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! A rather wide variety of bowls have been used for tea. What I was talking about was tea sets . The closest thing that
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 3, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Noble Cousin!

                            Greetings from Solveig! A rather wide variety of bowls have been used
                            for tea. What I was talking about was "tea sets". The closest thing
                            that comes to that is various all in one affairs where you transport
                            the various tea implements in some sort of box such as a tabidansu
                            or a more limited collection of implements in a chabako. However, this
                            sort of arrangement is not of the same sort of fixed everything matches
                            nature that the phrase "tea set" conjures up in my mind. The closest to
                            that in the tea ceremony is various bronze utensils used in conjunction
                            with a daisu. However, these do not have matching tea bowls. This sort
                            of tea usually uses a tenmokujawan.

                            Your Humble Servant
                            Solveig Throndardottir
                            Amateur Scholar
                            --
                            +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                            +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                            | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
                            | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
                            | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
                            | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
                            | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
                            | techie.com, msn.com |
                            +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                          • Barbara Nostrand
                            Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Jumping in as predicted. About sake. What we use in the sake ceremony (yes there is a sake ceremony) looks more like a
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 3, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Noble Cousins!

                              Greetings from Solveig! Jumping in as predicted. About sake. What we
                              use in the sake ceremony (yes there is a sake ceremony) looks more like
                              a small cast iron tea pot with either a ceramic or iron lid. The sake
                              is poured into what looks like a lacquer saucer.

                              Your Humble Servant
                              Solveig Throndardottir
                              Amateur Scholar
                              --
                              +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                              +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                              | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
                              | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
                              | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
                              | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
                              | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
                              | techie.com, msn.com |
                              +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                            • Barbara Nostrand
                              Noble Cousins! There are some things which have been traditionally matched in some instances. For example, you can have a matched tea bowl, dish rag holder,
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 3, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Noble Cousins!

                                There are some things which have been traditionally matched in some
                                instances. For example, you can have a matched tea bowl, dish rag
                                holder, and tea holder made out of ceramic. Also, you could
                                have matching incense holder, tea whisk holder, and tea holder made
                                out of lacquerware. This sort of set exists. Another sort of set
                                consists of matching bronze water jar, implement holder/flower vase,
                                and waste water container. However, I have not seen a combination
                                of these various sets.

                                Your Humble Servant
                                Solveig Throndardottir
                                Amateur Scholar
                                --
                                +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
                                | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
                                | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
                                | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
                                | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
                                | techie.com, msn.com |
                                +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                              • Munson, Eric
                                ... I am familiar with both of these, but I was trying to describe the ceramic jars that were used, perhaps for less formal occasions. Sorry to it this way,
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  > ----------
                                  > From: Barbara Nostrand
                                  > Noble Cousins!
                                  >
                                  > Greetings from Solveig! Jumping in as predicted. About sake. What we
                                  > use in the sake ceremony (yes there is a sake ceremony) looks more like
                                  > a small cast iron tea pot with either a ceramic or iron lid. The sake
                                  > is poured into what looks like a lacquer saucer.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  I am familiar with both of these, but I was trying to describe the ceramic
                                  jars that were used, perhaps for less formal occasions. Sorry to it this
                                  way, but being a visual person, I have to: You can see them in Ran in
                                  several scenes; like the "two hares" joke in the party scene in the
                                  beginning. This was what I was encouraging our potter to try. Unfortunately,
                                  I don't know what they would be called.

                                  - mokurai
                                • mneumark@hotmail.com
                                  ... lot of really ... along with ... that, if you ... the water ... I have one of the Heibonsha books...it goes over stoneware mainly. I found it at Powell s
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In sca-jml@y..., Elaine Koogler <ekoogler@c...> wrote:
                                    > Raku-dono,
                                    > The Heibonsha book I mentioned in my private message to you has a
                                    lot of really
                                    > good stuff on tea bowls, some lovely illustrations of period bowls,
                                    along with
                                    > full descriptions of all of the tea ceremony implements. I suspect
                                    that, if you
                                    > wanted to consider a "set" in Japan, it might consist of the bowl,
                                    the water
                                    > jar, the container for the tea itself, etc.
                                    >
                                    > Kiri

                                    I have one of the Heibonsha books...it goes over stoneware mainly. I
                                    found it at Powell's (GOD I love that place), but before that on
                                    Bibliofind.com (which is now Amazon, I'm afraid) which listed MANY of
                                    the Heibonsha volumes, different numbers and prices. I think I have
                                    #17. I'll take a closer look at it (I don't remember seeing tea
                                    stuff per se...just bottles and regular bowls).

                                    Thanks so much for your help tho! I appreciate it!

                                    --Raku
                                  • mneumark@hotmail.com
                                    ... Oooo! Do you have pictures, Solveig? I would LOVE to see matching sets as you ve described (especially if these are period). I especially like the tea
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In sca-jml@y..., Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@a...> wrote:
                                      > Noble Cousins!
                                      >
                                      > There are some things which have been traditionally matched in some
                                      > instances. For example, you can have a matched tea bowl, dish rag
                                      > holder, and tea holder made out of ceramic. Also, you could
                                      > have matching incense holder, tea whisk holder, and tea holder made
                                      > out of lacquerware. This sort of set exists. Another sort of set
                                      > consists of matching bronze water jar, implement holder/flower vase,
                                      > and waste water container. However, I have not seen a combination
                                      > of these various sets.

                                      Oooo! Do you have pictures, Solveig? I would LOVE to see matching
                                      sets as you've described (especially if these are period). I
                                      especially like the tea holder ceramic idea. I buy a number of the
                                      japanese quilting magazines and they show these lovely place mats,
                                      bowls and plates that all match, but I was assuming it wasn't period.

                                      I've also been told that both ceramics AND knifes haven't changed all
                                      that much stylistically from period. Does anyone know anything about
                                      cooking knives? I also do some bladesmithing (not good yet, but
                                      practicing). Any book suggestions?

                                      --Raku
                                    • Elaine Koogler
                                      The one I have is #15, and has all of the appropriate equipment used in the tea ceremony, along with wonderful pictures of tea rooms and diagrams of their
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        The one I have is #15, and has all of the appropriate equipment used in the
                                        tea ceremony, along with wonderful pictures of tea rooms and diagrams of
                                        their floor plans. I've thoroughly enjoyed having it. We have a Japanese
                                        store in downtown Washington, DC that usually has a small, but good,
                                        selection of books on the various aspects of Japanese culture. That's where
                                        I got this!

                                        Kiri

                                        mneumark@... wrote:

                                        > --- In sca-jml@y..., Elaine Koogler <ekoogler@c...> wrote:
                                        > > Raku-dono,
                                        > > The Heibonsha book I mentioned in my private message to you has a
                                        > lot of really
                                        > > good stuff on tea bowls, some lovely illustrations of period bowls,
                                        > along with
                                        > > full descriptions of all of the tea ceremony implements. I suspect
                                        > that, if you
                                        > > wanted to consider a "set" in Japan, it might consist of the bowl,
                                        > the water
                                        > > jar, the container for the tea itself, etc.
                                        > >
                                        > > Kiri
                                        >
                                        > I have one of the Heibonsha books...it goes over stoneware mainly. I
                                        > found it at Powell's (GOD I love that place), but before that on
                                        > Bibliofind.com (which is now Amazon, I'm afraid) which listed MANY of
                                        > the Heibonsha volumes, different numbers and prices. I think I have
                                        > #17. I'll take a closer look at it (I don't remember seeing tea
                                        > stuff per se...just bottles and regular bowls).
                                        >
                                        > Thanks so much for your help tho! I appreciate it!
                                        >
                                        > --Raku
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      • Barbara Nostrand
                                        Mokurai Bozu! Greetings from Solveig! When in doubt, call the shubin (alcohol bottles) or sake yô dobin. (Earthenware bottles used for sake.) Not being one to
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Mokurai Bozu!

                                          Greetings from Solveig! When in doubt, call the shubin (alcohol bottles)
                                          or sake yô dobin. (Earthenware bottles used for sake.) Not being one to
                                          imbibe much alcohol, I don't know what they are really called.

                                          Your Humble Servant
                                          Solveig Throndardottir
                                          Amateur Scholar
                                          --
                                          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                                          | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                          | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                          | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
                                          | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
                                          | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
                                          | com.tw, eranet.net, yahoo.com, success.net |
                                          | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
                                          | techie.com, msn.com |
                                          +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                        • Anthony J. Bryant
                                          ... That type of bottle -- and similar sake jars -- are called heiji. You can actually still buy them today, but they are primarily seen now as Shinto
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Oct 4, 2001
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            "Munson, Eric" wrote:

                                            >
                                            > I am familiar with both of these, but I was trying to describe the ceramic
                                            > jars that were used, perhaps for less formal occasions. Sorry to it this
                                            > way, but being a visual person, I have to: You can see them in Ran in
                                            > several scenes; like the "two hares" joke in the party scene in the
                                            > beginning. This was what I was encouraging our potter to try. Unfortunately,
                                            > I don't know what they would be called.

                                            That type of bottle -- and similar sake jars -- are called "heiji."

                                            You can actually still buy them today, but they are primarily seen now as
                                            Shinto offering thingies, as people buy sake *now* in glass bottles or cans,
                                            and then decant a bit into a tokkuri from which to serve.

                                            Heiji came in a great variety of sizes, and some variety of shapes.

                                            For the pottery junkies here, I did some looking for some images:

                                            Nice Muromachi-era heiji (this is a very famous piece):
                                            http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_27.html

                                            Here's a site selling heiji as Shinto supplies.
                                            http://www.na.rim.or.jp/~yamagen/ryohan/heiji/heiji.html

                                            Kamakura-era heiji:
                                            http://www.city.kani.gifu.jp/topics/tokubetuten1/k080.htm

                                            Kamakura-era Seto ootsubo ("big pot"):
                                            http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_51.html


                                            Other stuff ---
                                            Momoyama-era Mino tea bowl:
                                            http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_54.html

                                            Momoyama-era Sake bowl:
                                            http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_a23.html

                                            In Japanese. Cool Suntory properties for artifact junkies:
                                            http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/touji_f.html

                                            In Japanese, but this is the site of a display of the pottery works in the
                                            museum of Kanazawa University (click any of the numbers and keep clicking
                                            "next" next to the graphics to move along):
                                            http://web.kanazawa-u.ac.jp/~shiryo/akegarasu1/akegarasu_frame.html

                                            English: History of Mino ware:
                                            http://www.com.rd.pref.gifu.jp/industry/ceramics/history/index-e.html

                                            English: Hakone Museum, pottery thingies:
                                            http://www.e-yakimono.net/html/hakone_museum.html



                                            Effingham
                                          • Elaine Koogler
                                            Edward-dono, Thanks so much for sharing this. I love Japanese pottery, and looking at these items was a real treat for me! Kiri
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Oct 5, 2001
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Edward-dono,
                                              Thanks so much for sharing this. I love Japanese pottery, and looking at these
                                              items was a real treat for me!

                                              Kiri

                                              "Anthony J. Bryant" wrote:

                                              > "Munson, Eric" wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > > I am familiar with both of these, but I was trying to describe the ceramic
                                              > > jars that were used, perhaps for less formal occasions. Sorry to it this
                                              > > way, but being a visual person, I have to: You can see them in Ran in
                                              > > several scenes; like the "two hares" joke in the party scene in the
                                              > > beginning. This was what I was encouraging our potter to try. Unfortunately,
                                              > > I don't know what they would be called.
                                              >
                                              > That type of bottle -- and similar sake jars -- are called "heiji."
                                              >
                                              > You can actually still buy them today, but they are primarily seen now as
                                              > Shinto offering thingies, as people buy sake *now* in glass bottles or cans,
                                              > and then decant a bit into a tokkuri from which to serve.
                                              >
                                              > Heiji came in a great variety of sizes, and some variety of shapes.
                                              >
                                              > For the pottery junkies here, I did some looking for some images:
                                              >
                                              > Nice Muromachi-era heiji (this is a very famous piece):
                                              > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_27.html
                                              >
                                              > Here's a site selling heiji as Shinto supplies.
                                              > http://www.na.rim.or.jp/~yamagen/ryohan/heiji/heiji.html
                                              >
                                              > Kamakura-era heiji:
                                              > http://www.city.kani.gifu.jp/topics/tokubetuten1/k080.htm
                                              >
                                              > Kamakura-era Seto ootsubo ("big pot"):
                                              > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_51.html
                                              >
                                              > Other stuff ---
                                              > Momoyama-era Mino tea bowl:
                                              > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_54.html
                                              >
                                              > Momoyama-era Sake bowl:
                                              > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/l_a23.html
                                              >
                                              > In Japanese. Cool Suntory properties for artifact junkies:
                                              > http://www.suntory.co.jp/sma/japanese/collections/touji_f.html
                                              >
                                              > In Japanese, but this is the site of a display of the pottery works in the
                                              > museum of Kanazawa University (click any of the numbers and keep clicking
                                              > "next" next to the graphics to move along):
                                              > http://web.kanazawa-u.ac.jp/~shiryo/akegarasu1/akegarasu_frame.html
                                              >
                                              > English: History of Mino ware:
                                              > http://www.com.rd.pref.gifu.jp/industry/ceramics/history/index-e.html
                                              >
                                              > English: Hakone Museum, pottery thingies:
                                              > http://www.e-yakimono.net/html/hakone_museum.html
                                              >
                                              > Effingham
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            • Ange and Joanna
                                              I am located in the East, in Pa, to be more specific. I plan on being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would be able to put together! A
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Oct 5, 2001
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I am located in the East, in Pa, to be more specific.  I plan on being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would be able to put together! 
                                                 
                                                A portable raku kiln?  How is such a beastie constructed?  
                                                 
                                                I would love to hear the nitty-gritty details on glazes, and would be very, very interested in your CA piece.  I have to admit, I generally learn best either by reading, or in a hands-on class ( I have a sleep disorder - mild, but it makes taking lecture classes difficult) but if you don't mind someone nodding off in your class, I'd be happy to take in what I could.  Whereabouts in Caid are you?
                                                 
                                                Thanks for the tip about the potter's list, I am just beginning, and can use any information I can get my hands on....
                                                 
                                                gratefully,
                                                Tsukiyo
                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: mneumark@... <mneumark@...>
                                                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Date: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:19 AM
                                                Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Trade Pots for Garb (now teaching Japanese Pottery)

                                                --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
                                                > Greetings!
                                                >
                                                > I don't sew particularly well myself - I can get through it - but I
                                                took particular note of your post because I am longing to learn
                                                everything I can about pottery.  And Japanese pottery!  I didn't know
                                                anyone out there was doing that!   Anytime you care to teach, sign me
                                                up!  And if you think of another barter that my skills might be
                                                perhaps more suited to, let me know, please.  (What, precisely do you
                                                mean by nicer garb anyway?) 
                                                >

                                                Greeting Tsukiyo!

                                                I actually do teach here in Caid...where are you located?  Are you
                                                talking about teaching at Pennsic possibly?  My first Pennsic was
                                                this last one, which was an impulse on my account having just
                                                apprenticed (at Pennsic) to Master Hroar Stormgengr, a middle realm
                                                pottery laurel.

                                                I'm still trying to figure out if I will be going to Pennsic next
                                                year, but if I do, I WILL try to teach pottery and if there is enough
                                                people, I am more than willing to teach japanese pottery.  Perhaps by
                                                then I will have a portable raku kiln, but I am not 100% sure (I
                                                wouldn't want to promise anything...I wouldn't want to disappoint
                                                people).  Is this something this list would like me to do?  How many
                                                would like to see this?  I can also possibly do a discussion of
                                                oribe, shino and tamba wares...a slide show possibly if there is
                                                enough interest.  Many people over here think pottery is nice, but I
                                                see their eyes glaze over as I go into details (glaze and potters go
                                                well together), but if you'd like to see this stuff, just let me know
                                                and I can work on it! :)

                                                I started the Potter's Guild of Caid and I hope to start posting my
                                                research projects up there.  I wrote a section on Japanese (well, it
                                                was Chinese, Korean and Japanese) period pottery for a CA project us
                                                potters are working on.  I can sent that section to people if they
                                                are interested in seeing that at least.

                                                BTW, if there are people interested in pottery in general, sca-
                                                potters@yahoogroups.com is open to people.  Feel free to add
                                                yourselves.  If you are in Caid, let me know and I can send you info
                                                on my open studio free classes and the collegiums I am teaching at
                                                next.

                                                --Raku (Artemesia Serena)



                                                UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              • Anthony J. Bryant
                                                ... My pleasure. I was kinda drooling as a looked at them myself. Now my keyboard is waterlogged. Effingham
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Oct 6, 2001
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Elaine Koogler wrote:

                                                  > Edward-dono,
                                                  > Thanks so much for sharing this. I love Japanese pottery, and looking at these
                                                  > items was a real treat for me!

                                                  My pleasure.

                                                  I was kinda drooling as a looked at them myself.

                                                  Now my keyboard is waterlogged.


                                                  Effingham
                                                • mneumark@hotmail.com
                                                  Baron Edward! Thanks SO much for the links! Whenever I look for stuff, all I find are modern stuff. You rule! Woo-hoo! ::happy potter dance:: I m telling
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Oct 8, 2001
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Baron Edward!

                                                    Thanks SO much for the links! Whenever I look for stuff, all I find
                                                    are modern stuff. You rule! Woo-hoo! ::happy potter dance::

                                                    I'm telling my laurel how great you are! (Like he didn't know
                                                    already...right!) :)

                                                    --Raku
                                                  • mneumark@hotmail.com
                                                    ... being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would be able to put together! ... I m going to have to see what my financial issues will be,
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Oct 9, 2001
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
                                                      > I am located in the East, in Pa, to be more specific. I plan on
                                                      being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would
                                                      be able to put together!
                                                      >

                                                      I'm going to have to see what my financial issues will be, and what
                                                      can be done in general at Pennsic. So people would be interested in
                                                      classes on the history of asian ceramics too? Or just how to stuff?

                                                      > A portable raku kiln? How is such a beastie constructed?
                                                      >

                                                      There are a few different options...depending on my resources at the
                                                      time. Fire bricks, mud and propaine, basically can be done rather
                                                      easily. The cool portable is pre-made...it's like a portable furnace
                                                      (like what the metalworkers use to melt metal) only made of special
                                                      fiber. They run around $900. I'm saving up for one now. :)

                                                      > I would love to hear the nitty-gritty details on glazes, and would
                                                      be very, very interested in your CA piece.>

                                                      I live in the San Fernando Valley, near Los Angeles (a skip from
                                                      Little Tokyo and the garment districts). I'll dig up my article and
                                                      try to post it to the files section. I might even have it
                                                      handy...remind me if I flake.

                                                      We can talk off line about glazes...I don't want to bore this list
                                                      with details, unless there are other people interested in this sort
                                                      of stuff.

                                                      > Thanks for the tip about the potter's list, I am just beginning,
                                                      and can use any information I can get my hands on....
                                                      >

                                                      You're welcome!

                                                      --Raku
                                                    • Elaine Koogler
                                                      You might want to get in touch with Stefan li Rous (address above) who does Stefan s Florilegium. I m sure he d be interested in putting whatever information
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Oct 9, 2001
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        You might want to get in touch with Stefan li Rous (address above) who does
                                                        Stefan's Florilegium. I'm sure he'd be interested in putting whatever
                                                        information you have on his site. He has all sorts of stuff there, about all
                                                        kinds of things, that he gleans off of a number of different lists, including
                                                        the Rialto, etc. I suspect, knowing Stefan, that he's love to have anything
                                                        you can give him!

                                                        Kiri

                                                        mneumark@... wrote:

                                                        > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Ange and Joanna" <woadwomen@n...> wrote:
                                                        > > I am located in the East, in Pa, to be more specific. I plan on
                                                        > being at Pennsic and would be very interested in anything you would
                                                        > be able to put together!
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > I'm going to have to see what my financial issues will be, and what
                                                        > can be done in general at Pennsic. So people would be interested in
                                                        > classes on the history of asian ceramics too? Or just how to stuff?
                                                        >
                                                        > > A portable raku kiln? How is such a beastie constructed?
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > There are a few different options...depending on my resources at the
                                                        > time. Fire bricks, mud and propaine, basically can be done rather
                                                        > easily. The cool portable is pre-made...it's like a portable furnace
                                                        > (like what the metalworkers use to melt metal) only made of special
                                                        > fiber. They run around $900. I'm saving up for one now. :)
                                                        >
                                                        > > I would love to hear the nitty-gritty details on glazes, and would
                                                        > be very, very interested in your CA piece.>
                                                        >
                                                        > I live in the San Fernando Valley, near Los Angeles (a skip from
                                                        > Little Tokyo and the garment districts). I'll dig up my article and
                                                        > try to post it to the files section. I might even have it
                                                        > handy...remind me if I flake.
                                                        >
                                                        > We can talk off line about glazes...I don't want to bore this list
                                                        > with details, unless there are other people interested in this sort
                                                        > of stuff.
                                                        >
                                                        > > Thanks for the tip about the potter's list, I am just beginning,
                                                        > and can use any information I can get my hands on....
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > You're welcome!
                                                        >
                                                        > --Raku
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >
                                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.