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Re: [SCA-JML] Translation of the Knight's Oath?

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There s a region of Japan (as well as that big country) called Chuugoku. I don t see a problem... Effingham
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1 8:28 PM
      Ii Saburou wrote:

      > On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:
      >
      > > Noble Cousin!
      > >
      > > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
      > > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
      > > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
      > > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
      > > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
      > > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
      > > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
      > > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?
      >
      > My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
      > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
      > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
      > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
      > translate across borders, as well.
      >

      Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's a region of Japan (as
      well as that big country) called Chuugoku.

      I don't see a problem... <G>

      Effingham
    • Nate Ledbetter
      ... I suppose Naka no kuni would be just plain silliness? Baka na Shonaigawa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 2 6:19 AM
        --- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
        > Ii Saburou wrote:

        > > My immediate concern in attempting something like
        > that would be how best
        > > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is
        > already taken in modern
        > > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That
        > doesn't sound quite right
        > > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my
        > country'? That would
        > > translate across borders, as well.
        > >
        >
        > Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's
        > a region of Japan (as
        > well as that big country) called Chuugoku.
        >
        > I don't see a problem... <G>
        >
        > Effingham
        >

        I suppose "Naka no kuni" would be just plain
        silliness?

        Baka na Shonaigawa

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      • Barbara Nostrand
        Ii Dono! Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku s and a Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that anyone is going to swat
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 2 6:31 AM
          Ii Dono!

          Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku's and a
          Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that
          anyone is going to swat you or the crown for doing so. The Middle
          is one of the three original kingdoms. It's unlikely that any
          of the three direction names would pass the College of Arms today.
          Since the name IS registered, you do not need to worry about
          conflict v. China or any other place. I sincerely doubt that you
          will duplicate the official name of either the PRC or the RC.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
        • Barbara Nostrand
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu. As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would make them less likely in
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 2 7:22 AM
            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu.
            As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would
            make them less likely in a formmal setting. Please, do not
            use naka no kuni. The Japanese just did not do that. Sino-
            Japanese was culture all in capitals. If there was a Sino-
            Japanese equivalent, then it would most likely have been
            used preferentially in a court setting.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            Greetings! I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I d post it to the list as well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it: Tadaima yori, chûgi
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 2 12:40 PM
              Greetings!

              I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I'd post it to the list as
              well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it:

              Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
              Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
              Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
              Yowaki o mamoru koto,
              Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
              Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
              Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
              Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
              Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
              ----
              Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
              From this time on, I pledge my fealty/loyalty [and]

              Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
              I make my homage to the throne of the Middle Kingdom.

              Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
              I, at whatever time, will be a true warrior

              Yowaki o mamoru koto,
              will protect the weak,

              Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
              will be a true, loyal retainer,

              Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
              will appear in the vanguard in times of war.

              Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
              I, at whatever time, with proper courtesy,

              Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
              will defend the righteous and the weak.

              Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
              [To] all of this, I, Kamiizumi Munenori, pledge with all my heart.

              Effingham
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