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Re: [SCA-JML] Translation of the Knight's Oath?

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  • Ii Saburou
    ... My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best to translate Middle Kingdom ? Chuugoku is already taken in modern Japanese, so
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1, 2001
      On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:

      > Noble Cousin!
      >
      > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
      > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
      > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
      > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
      > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
      > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
      > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
      > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?

      My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
      to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
      Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
      to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
      translate across borders, as well.

      -Ii
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There s a region of Japan (as well as that big country) called Chuugoku. I don t see a problem... Effingham
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1, 2001
        Ii Saburou wrote:

        > On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:
        >
        > > Noble Cousin!
        > >
        > > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
        > > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
        > > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
        > > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
        > > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
        > > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
        > > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
        > > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?
        >
        > My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
        > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
        > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
        > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
        > translate across borders, as well.
        >

        Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's a region of Japan (as
        well as that big country) called Chuugoku.

        I don't see a problem... <G>

        Effingham
      • Nate Ledbetter
        ... I suppose Naka no kuni would be just plain silliness? Baka na Shonaigawa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 2, 2001
          --- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
          > Ii Saburou wrote:

          > > My immediate concern in attempting something like
          > that would be how best
          > > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is
          > already taken in modern
          > > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That
          > doesn't sound quite right
          > > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my
          > country'? That would
          > > translate across borders, as well.
          > >
          >
          > Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's
          > a region of Japan (as
          > well as that big country) called Chuugoku.
          >
          > I don't see a problem... <G>
          >
          > Effingham
          >

          I suppose "Naka no kuni" would be just plain
          silliness?

          Baka na Shonaigawa

          __________________________________________________
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        • Barbara Nostrand
          Ii Dono! Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku s and a Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that anyone is going to swat
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 2, 2001
            Ii Dono!

            Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku's and a
            Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that
            anyone is going to swat you or the crown for doing so. The Middle
            is one of the three original kingdoms. It's unlikely that any
            of the three direction names would pass the College of Arms today.
            Since the name IS registered, you do not need to worry about
            conflict v. China or any other place. I sincerely doubt that you
            will duplicate the official name of either the PRC or the RC.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar
          • Barbara Nostrand
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu. As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would make them less likely in
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 2, 2001
              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu.
              As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would
              make them less likely in a formmal setting. Please, do not
              use naka no kuni. The Japanese just did not do that. Sino-
              Japanese was culture all in capitals. If there was a Sino-
              Japanese equivalent, then it would most likely have been
              used preferentially in a court setting.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              Greetings! I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I d post it to the list as well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it: Tadaima yori, chûgi
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 2, 2001
                Greetings!

                I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I'd post it to the list as
                well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it:

                Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
                Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
                Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
                Yowaki o mamoru koto,
                Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
                Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
                Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
                Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
                Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
                ----
                Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
                From this time on, I pledge my fealty/loyalty [and]

                Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
                I make my homage to the throne of the Middle Kingdom.

                Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
                I, at whatever time, will be a true warrior

                Yowaki o mamoru koto,
                will protect the weak,

                Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
                will be a true, loyal retainer,

                Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
                will appear in the vanguard in times of war.

                Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
                I, at whatever time, with proper courtesy,

                Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
                will defend the righteous and the weak.

                Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
                [To] all of this, I, Kamiizumi Munenori, pledge with all my heart.

                Effingham
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