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Re: Translation of the Knight's Oath?

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  • wcbooth@hotmail.com
    ... Munenori-Dono.. i ll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei are already on this.... Humbly Nobu
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1 1:31 PM
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      --- In sca-jml@y..., "Kamiizumi Munenori" <kmunenori@h...> wrote:
      > I don't suppose anyone would have a Japanese translation
      > (in romaji) of the Oath of the Order of Chivalry, as written
      > here:
      >
      > http://www.midrealm.org/chiv/
      >
      > I'd like to take a copy with me to Pennsic. Thanks!
      >
      > Munenori

      Munenori-Dono..

      i'll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei
      are already on this....

      Humbly
      Nobu
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... On it... Effingham
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1 4:01 PM
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        wcbooth@... wrote:

        > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Kamiizumi Munenori" <kmunenori@h...> wrote:
        > > I don't suppose anyone would have a Japanese translation
        > > (in romaji) of the Oath of the Order of Chivalry, as written
        > > here:
        > >
        > > http://www.midrealm.org/chiv/
        > >
        > > I'd like to take a copy with me to Pennsic. Thanks!
        > >
        > > Munenori
        >
        > Munenori-Dono..
        >
        > i'll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei
        > are already on this....
        >

        On it... <G>


        Effingham
      • Ii Saburou
        ... My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best to translate Middle Kingdom ? Chuugoku is already taken in modern Japanese, so
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1 7:24 PM
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          On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:

          > Noble Cousin!
          >
          > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
          > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
          > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
          > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
          > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
          > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
          > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
          > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?

          My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
          to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
          Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
          to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
          translate across borders, as well.

          -Ii
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There s a region of Japan (as well as that big country) called Chuugoku. I don t see a problem... Effingham
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 1 8:28 PM
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            Ii Saburou wrote:

            > On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:
            >
            > > Noble Cousin!
            > >
            > > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
            > > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
            > > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
            > > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
            > > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
            > > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
            > > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
            > > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?
            >
            > My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
            > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
            > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
            > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
            > translate across borders, as well.
            >

            Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's a region of Japan (as
            well as that big country) called Chuugoku.

            I don't see a problem... <G>

            Effingham
          • Nate Ledbetter
            ... I suppose Naka no kuni would be just plain silliness? Baka na Shonaigawa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 2 6:19 AM
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              --- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
              > Ii Saburou wrote:

              > > My immediate concern in attempting something like
              > that would be how best
              > > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is
              > already taken in modern
              > > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That
              > doesn't sound quite right
              > > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my
              > country'? That would
              > > translate across borders, as well.
              > >
              >
              > Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's
              > a region of Japan (as
              > well as that big country) called Chuugoku.
              >
              > I don't see a problem... <G>
              >
              > Effingham
              >

              I suppose "Naka no kuni" would be just plain
              silliness?

              Baka na Shonaigawa

              __________________________________________________
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            • Barbara Nostrand
              Ii Dono! Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku s and a Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that anyone is going to swat
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 2 6:31 AM
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                Ii Dono!

                Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku's and a
                Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that
                anyone is going to swat you or the crown for doing so. The Middle
                is one of the three original kingdoms. It's unlikely that any
                of the three direction names would pass the College of Arms today.
                Since the name IS registered, you do not need to worry about
                conflict v. China or any other place. I sincerely doubt that you
                will duplicate the official name of either the PRC or the RC.

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar
              • Barbara Nostrand
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu. As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would make them less likely in
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 2 7:22 AM
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                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu.
                  As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would
                  make them less likely in a formmal setting. Please, do not
                  use naka no kuni. The Japanese just did not do that. Sino-
                  Japanese was culture all in capitals. If there was a Sino-
                  Japanese equivalent, then it would most likely have been
                  used preferentially in a court setting.

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar
                • Anthony J. Bryant
                  Greetings! I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I d post it to the list as well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it: Tadaima yori, chûgi
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 2 12:40 PM
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                    Greetings!

                    I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I'd post it to the list as
                    well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it:

                    Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
                    Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
                    Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
                    Yowaki o mamoru koto,
                    Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
                    Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
                    Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
                    Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
                    Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
                    ----
                    Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
                    From this time on, I pledge my fealty/loyalty [and]

                    Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
                    I make my homage to the throne of the Middle Kingdom.

                    Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
                    I, at whatever time, will be a true warrior

                    Yowaki o mamoru koto,
                    will protect the weak,

                    Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
                    will be a true, loyal retainer,

                    Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
                    will appear in the vanguard in times of war.

                    Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
                    I, at whatever time, with proper courtesy,

                    Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
                    will defend the righteous and the weak.

                    Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
                    [To] all of this, I, Kamiizumi Munenori, pledge with all my heart.

                    Effingham
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