Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SCA-JML] Translation of the Knight's Oath?

Expand Messages
  • Barbara Nostrand
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was Dragon Principle Herald.
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1, 2001
      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
      put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
      Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
      act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
      exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
      deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
      classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
      parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar
    • wcbooth@hotmail.com
      ... Munenori-Dono.. i ll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei are already on this.... Humbly Nobu
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1, 2001
        --- In sca-jml@y..., "Kamiizumi Munenori" <kmunenori@h...> wrote:
        > I don't suppose anyone would have a Japanese translation
        > (in romaji) of the Oath of the Order of Chivalry, as written
        > here:
        >
        > http://www.midrealm.org/chiv/
        >
        > I'd like to take a copy with me to Pennsic. Thanks!
        >
        > Munenori

        Munenori-Dono..

        i'll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei
        are already on this....

        Humbly
        Nobu
      • Anthony J. Bryant
        ... On it... Effingham
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1, 2001
          wcbooth@... wrote:

          > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Kamiizumi Munenori" <kmunenori@h...> wrote:
          > > I don't suppose anyone would have a Japanese translation
          > > (in romaji) of the Oath of the Order of Chivalry, as written
          > > here:
          > >
          > > http://www.midrealm.org/chiv/
          > >
          > > I'd like to take a copy with me to Pennsic. Thanks!
          > >
          > > Munenori
          >
          > Munenori-Dono..
          >
          > i'll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei
          > are already on this....
          >

          On it... <G>


          Effingham
        • Ii Saburou
          ... My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best to translate Middle Kingdom ? Chuugoku is already taken in modern Japanese, so
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 1, 2001
            On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:

            > Noble Cousin!
            >
            > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
            > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
            > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
            > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
            > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
            > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
            > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
            > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?

            My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
            to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
            Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
            to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
            translate across borders, as well.

            -Ii
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There s a region of Japan (as well as that big country) called Chuugoku. I don t see a problem... Effingham
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 1, 2001
              Ii Saburou wrote:

              > On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:
              >
              > > Noble Cousin!
              > >
              > > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
              > > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
              > > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
              > > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
              > > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
              > > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
              > > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
              > > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?
              >
              > My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
              > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
              > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
              > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
              > translate across borders, as well.
              >

              Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's a region of Japan (as
              well as that big country) called Chuugoku.

              I don't see a problem... <G>

              Effingham
            • Nate Ledbetter
              ... I suppose Naka no kuni would be just plain silliness? Baka na Shonaigawa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 2, 2001
                --- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
                > Ii Saburou wrote:

                > > My immediate concern in attempting something like
                > that would be how best
                > > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is
                > already taken in modern
                > > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That
                > doesn't sound quite right
                > > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my
                > country'? That would
                > > translate across borders, as well.
                > >
                >
                > Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's
                > a region of Japan (as
                > well as that big country) called Chuugoku.
                >
                > I don't see a problem... <G>
                >
                > Effingham
                >

                I suppose "Naka no kuni" would be just plain
                silliness?

                Baka na Shonaigawa

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
                http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
              • Barbara Nostrand
                Ii Dono! Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku s and a Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that anyone is going to swat
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 2, 2001
                  Ii Dono!

                  Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku's and a
                  Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that
                  anyone is going to swat you or the crown for doing so. The Middle
                  is one of the three original kingdoms. It's unlikely that any
                  of the three direction names would pass the College of Arms today.
                  Since the name IS registered, you do not need to worry about
                  conflict v. China or any other place. I sincerely doubt that you
                  will duplicate the official name of either the PRC or the RC.

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar
                • Barbara Nostrand
                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu. As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would make them less likely in
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 2, 2001
                    Noble Cousin!

                    Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu.
                    As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would
                    make them less likely in a formmal setting. Please, do not
                    use naka no kuni. The Japanese just did not do that. Sino-
                    Japanese was culture all in capitals. If there was a Sino-
                    Japanese equivalent, then it would most likely have been
                    used preferentially in a court setting.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar
                  • Anthony J. Bryant
                    Greetings! I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I d post it to the list as well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it: Tadaima yori, chûgi
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 2, 2001
                      Greetings!

                      I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I'd post it to the list as
                      well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it:

                      Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
                      Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
                      Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
                      Yowaki o mamoru koto,
                      Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
                      Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
                      Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
                      Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
                      Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
                      ----
                      Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
                      From this time on, I pledge my fealty/loyalty [and]

                      Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
                      I make my homage to the throne of the Middle Kingdom.

                      Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
                      I, at whatever time, will be a true warrior

                      Yowaki o mamoru koto,
                      will protect the weak,

                      Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
                      will be a true, loyal retainer,

                      Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
                      will appear in the vanguard in times of war.

                      Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
                      I, at whatever time, with proper courtesy,

                      Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
                      will defend the righteous and the weak.

                      Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
                      [To] all of this, I, Kamiizumi Munenori, pledge with all my heart.

                      Effingham
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.