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Translation of the Knight's Oath?

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  • Kamiizumi Munenori
    I don t suppose anyone would have a Japanese translation (in romaji) of the Oath of the Order of Chivalry, as written here: http://www.midrealm.org/chiv/ I d
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1 9:40 AM
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      I don't suppose anyone would have a Japanese translation
      (in romaji) of the Oath of the Order of Chivalry, as written
      here:

      http://www.midrealm.org/chiv/

      I'd like to take a copy with me to Pennsic. Thanks!

      Munenori
    • Barbara Nostrand
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was Dragon Principle Herald.
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1 12:28 PM
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
        put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
        Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
        act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
        exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
        deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
        classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
        parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar
      • wcbooth@hotmail.com
        ... Munenori-Dono.. i ll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei are already on this.... Humbly Nobu
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1 1:31 PM
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          --- In sca-jml@y..., "Kamiizumi Munenori" <kmunenori@h...> wrote:
          > I don't suppose anyone would have a Japanese translation
          > (in romaji) of the Oath of the Order of Chivalry, as written
          > here:
          >
          > http://www.midrealm.org/chiv/
          >
          > I'd like to take a copy with me to Pennsic. Thanks!
          >
          > Munenori

          Munenori-Dono..

          i'll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei
          are already on this....

          Humbly
          Nobu
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... On it... Effingham
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 1 4:01 PM
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            wcbooth@... wrote:

            > --- In sca-jml@y..., "Kamiizumi Munenori" <kmunenori@h...> wrote:
            > > I don't suppose anyone would have a Japanese translation
            > > (in romaji) of the Oath of the Order of Chivalry, as written
            > > here:
            > >
            > > http://www.midrealm.org/chiv/
            > >
            > > I'd like to take a copy with me to Pennsic. Thanks!
            > >
            > > Munenori
            >
            > Munenori-Dono..
            >
            > i'll have some freetime comeing up, unless some of our esteemd Sensei
            > are already on this....
            >

            On it... <G>


            Effingham
          • Ii Saburou
            ... My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best to translate Middle Kingdom ? Chuugoku is already taken in modern Japanese, so
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 1 7:24 PM
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              On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:

              > Noble Cousin!
              >
              > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
              > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
              > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
              > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
              > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
              > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
              > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
              > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?

              My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
              to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
              Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
              to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
              translate across borders, as well.

              -Ii
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There s a region of Japan (as well as that big country) called Chuugoku. I don t see a problem... Effingham
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 1 8:28 PM
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                Ii Saburou wrote:

                > On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Barbara Nostrand wrote:
                >
                > > Noble Cousin!
                > >
                > > Greetings from Solveig! Mistress Graidhne tells me that she
                > > put together that book of Midrealm oaths back when she was
                > > Dragon Principle Herald. She says that they are supposed to
                > > act as a guide and that you do not have to follow them
                > > exactly. That said, how about something more Japanese which
                > > deals with things like the "mandate of heaven" (a good
                > > classical Chinese idea) and stuff like that which roughly
                > > parallels the stuff in the book of ceremonies?
                >
                > My immediate concern in attempting something like that would be how best
                > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is already taken in modern
                > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That doesn't sound quite right
                > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my country'? That would
                > translate across borders, as well.
                >

                Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's a region of Japan (as
                well as that big country) called Chuugoku.

                I don't see a problem... <G>

                Effingham
              • Nate Ledbetter
                ... I suppose Naka no kuni would be just plain silliness? Baka na Shonaigawa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 2 6:19 AM
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                  --- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
                  > Ii Saburou wrote:

                  > > My immediate concern in attempting something like
                  > that would be how best
                  > > to translate 'Middle Kingdom'? 'Chuugoku' is
                  > already taken in modern
                  > > Japanese, so what would you do? Midoru? That
                  > doesn't sound quite right
                  > > to me. Perhaps just using, 'my land' or 'my
                  > country'? That would
                  > > translate across borders, as well.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Why not? There are two provinces named Awa. There's
                  > a region of Japan (as
                  > well as that big country) called Chuugoku.
                  >
                  > I don't see a problem... <G>
                  >
                  > Effingham
                  >

                  I suppose "Naka no kuni" would be just plain
                  silliness?

                  Baka na Shonaigawa

                  __________________________________________________
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                  http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
                • Barbara Nostrand
                  Ii Dono! Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku s and a Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that anyone is going to swat
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 2 6:31 AM
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                    Ii Dono!

                    Greetings from Solveig! There are already two Chogoku's and a
                    Chubu in Japanese. Why not just reuse one of them? I doubt that
                    anyone is going to swat you or the crown for doing so. The Middle
                    is one of the three original kingdoms. It's unlikely that any
                    of the three direction names would pass the College of Arms today.
                    Since the name IS registered, you do not need to worry about
                    conflict v. China or any other place. I sincerely doubt that you
                    will duplicate the official name of either the PRC or the RC.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar
                  • Barbara Nostrand
                    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu. As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would make them less likely in
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 2 7:22 AM
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                      Noble Cousin!

                      Greetings from Solveig! It is Chuugoku or possibly Chuushuu.
                      As I recall, the -shuu names were less formal, which would
                      make them less likely in a formmal setting. Please, do not
                      use naka no kuni. The Japanese just did not do that. Sino-
                      Japanese was culture all in capitals. If there was a Sino-
                      Japanese equivalent, then it would most likely have been
                      used preferentially in a court setting.

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar
                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      Greetings! I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I d post it to the list as well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it: Tadaima yori, chûgi
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 2 12:40 PM
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                        Greetings!

                        I just sent this to Munenori-dono, but I thought I'd post it to the list as
                        well if anyone wants to comment or make use of it:

                        Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
                        Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
                        Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
                        Yowaki o mamoru koto,
                        Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
                        Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
                        Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
                        Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
                        Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
                        ----
                        Tadaima yori, chûgi o chikai,
                        From this time on, I pledge my fealty/loyalty [and]

                        Chûgoku no za ni keii o hyô itashisôrô.
                        I make my homage to the throne of the Middle Kingdom.

                        Ware, izutoki mo makoto no bushi ni naru koto,
                        I, at whatever time, will be a true warrior

                        Yowaki o mamoru koto,
                        will protect the weak,

                        Ue-sama no jûjun taru chûshin naru koto,
                        will be a true, loyal retainer,

                        Ikusa no sengun ni arawasu koto nari.
                        will appear in the vanguard in times of war.

                        Ware, izutoki mo reigi tadashiku
                        I, at whatever time, with proper courtesy,

                        Yûtokumono, yokimono o yôgo itashisôrô.
                        will defend the righteous and the weak.

                        Kore zentai, kono Kamiizumi Munenori isshin chikaisôrô.
                        [To] all of this, I, Kamiizumi Munenori, pledge with all my heart.

                        Effingham
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