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leather for scadian armour

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  • schneider
    Hello all! It s been a while since I posted but I couldn t think of much to aggrivate about :D I m thinking of making something out of leather for SCA combat
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 27, 2001
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      Hello all!
      It's been a while since I posted but I couldn't think of much to aggrivate about :D
      I'm thinking of making something out of leather for SCA combat here in Atlantia. Is there a certain thickness of leather and/or a certain style of do that would be best for leather in this type of combat? I'm not really wanting to paint/laquer these things for the labor involved in cleaning and repairing, but is this about the only thing I can do? What about boiling in parafin? Other ppl told me that the leather would be too flimsy for sca combat and I would end up getting hurt a lot. I do well for myself enough with the katana and only get a few bruises and welts on my left thigh.
      Any help is greatly appreciated.
      Thanks,
      Pocy/ Takezo Yoshida
    • Ron Martino
      ... Hmmm. Atlantians have a reputation for hitting hard, but in my experience that s because there s a few dukes and such who do so, while the rest have pretty
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 27, 2001
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        > I'm thinking of making something out of leather for SCA combat here in
        > Atlantia. Is there a certain thickness of leather and/or a certain
        > style of do that would be best for leather in this type of combat? I'm
        > not really wanting to paint/laquer these things for the labor involved
        > in cleaning and repairing, but is this about the only thing I can do?
        > What about boiling in parafin? Other ppl told me that the leather
        > would be too flimsy for sca combat and I would end up getting hurt a
        > lot. I do well for myself enough with the katana and only get a few
        > bruises and welts on my left thigh.
        > Any help is greatly appreciated.
        > Thanks,
        > Pocy/ Takezo Yoshida

        Hmmm. Atlantians have a reputation for hitting hard, but in my
        experience that's because there's a few dukes and such who do so, while
        the rest have pretty standard shots. Still, you might want to consider
        that when you make your armor.

        My new suit of armor (still in a bunch of pieces, waiting to be laced
        together) is around 8 oz. leather, soaked in hot wax to harden it (not
        boiled - that will likely shrink your pieces). It will be more than
        rigid enough for my needs - I'll certainly feel blows, and they may
        sting sometimes, but I won't actually be harmed under normal conditions.
        I know Effingham-sensei advocates plastic as a good substitute for
        lacquered metal, but I can't bring myself to wear it, so leather it is.

        Yumitori
        --

        yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com
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      • Andrea Gideon
        O ... Actually, it s more wide spread than that. All of the knights that I ve spoken with in Northern Atlantia teach harder hits. I had a little experience
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 27, 2001
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          O
          >
          > Hmmm. Atlantians have a reputation for hitting hard, but in my
          > experience that's because there's a few dukes and such who do so, while
          > the rest have pretty standard shots. Still, you might want to consider
          > that when you make your armor.
          >
          Actually, it's more wide spread than that. All of the knights that I've
          spoken with in Northern Atlantia teach harder hits. I had a little
          experience with heavy fighting in Midrealm, then moved here. After a couple
          practises, I gave up. I was getting hurt way too much. I do know of several
          fighters who do use leather armor. Before buying your leather, find a local
          marshal, knight or armorer that can help you buy the right stuff. Or, you
          can right to the Atlantian mailing list.

          Nadeshiko
        • Grim Shieldsson
          I fight in heavy leather.. 16 oz I think is what I bought years ago. Takes the sting out of the blow, and has kept me from getting broken. I only have a
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 27, 2001
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            I fight in heavy leather.. 16 oz I think is what I bought years ago.
            Takes the sting out of the blow, and has kept me from getting broken.
            I only have a leather body... I use aluminum for elbows and knees,
            steel for the head and really really thick aluminum for a gorget.
            It's not a setup I would recommend for a new fighter at all. I also
            would recommend against it for anyone who likes to really mix it up in
            the line. If you're like me, and hang back out of the fray and do a
            lot of cleanup, security work, then it's great stuff.. light and
            flexible. If you like being in the middle of the melee.. nah... been
            there done that.. wasn't as much fun.. then again you may like it.
            I think you'll find that leather is just as expensive as steel or
            alumninum. I paid about 120 for my hide of leather. Which is about
            what I would have paid for the metal body armor as well.

            --- schneider <schneider@...> wrote:
            > Hello all!
            > It's been a while since I posted but I couldn't think of much to
            > aggrivate about :D
            > I'm thinking of making something out of leather for SCA combat here
            > in Atlantia. Is there a certain thickness of leather and/or a certain
            > style of do that would be best for leather in this type of combat?
            > I'm not really wanting to paint/laquer these things for the labor
            > involved in cleaning and repairing, but is this about the only thing
            > I can do? What about boiling in parafin? Other ppl told me that the
            > leather would be too flimsy for sca combat and I would end up getting
            > hurt a lot. I do well for myself enough with the katana and only get
            > a few bruises and welts on my left thigh.
            > Any help is greatly appreciated.
            > Thanks,
            > Pocy/ Takezo Yoshida
            >


            =====
            Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
            Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
            Barbarian Freehold Alliance
            Oppurtunity doesn't knock. It only presents itself after you kick down the door.
            --Kyle Chandler

            __________________________________________________
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          • schneider
            ... I really like getting in the midle of things. I even press through doors with nothing but my katana, just because they think I won t and it catches them
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 28, 2001
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              > It's not a setup I would recommend for a new fighter at all. I also
              > would recommend against it for anyone who likes to really mix it up in
              > the line. If you're like me, and hang back out of the fray and do a
              > lot of cleanup, security work, then it's great stuff.. light and
              > flexible. If you like being in the middle of the melee.. nah... been
              > there done that.. wasn't as much fun.. then again you may like it.

              I really like getting in the midle of things. I even press through doors
              with nothing but my katana, just because they think I won't and it catches
              them off guard ;) I've been doing well enough on the field to have some
              decent defense and offense so it's not like I'm getting clubbed like a baby
              seal. Well, I might a little, but that's because I'm shoving aside shieldmen
              to get some carnage myself.
              Can one dye parafin?
              Takezo Yoshida
            • Grim Shieldsson
              ... ... I have tried that once. The unit knew what they were doing and simply let me through.... right smack dab into the fighter return system....
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 28, 2001
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                --- schneider <schneider@...> wrote:
                <SNIP>

                > I really like getting in the midle of things. I even press through
                > doors
                > with nothing but my katana, just because they think I won't and it
                > catches
                > them off guard ;)

                I have tried that once. The unit knew what they were doing and simply
                let me through.... right smack dab into the fighter return system....
                Great swords and glaives. I think I did more tactical good in full
                retreat then I did in full charge.
                This was a result of something some shield units have been working on,
                namely letting singletons through the line to be dealt with by the
                clean up/rear security area. Once the unit gets it down... it's nasty
                and ugly. Can be done when a singleton charges the line, or if one
                person in the middle is pushing real hard. If you can train the shield
                line to let the person pop through, typically your rear security folk
                can gang up on him/her before they can really get their wits about them
                again. Neat technique, with enough training and fortunately not many
                units have the cohesion to do it.


                >I've been doing well enough on the field to have
                > some
                > decent defense and offense so it's not like I'm getting clubbed like
                > a baby
                > seal. Well, I might a little, but that's because I'm shoving aside
                > shieldmen
                > to get some carnage myself.
                > Can one dye parafin?

                Ummm... yes you can... food coloring is best. Why not dye the
                leather.... although you could get an interesting two tone maybe... I
                have a friend who does custom body and paint for cars, he gets a really
                cool effect when he uses a tinted clear coat over various color paint
                jobs. It changes color in different light. It looks way cool though.
                Saw him do a black car with flames on the hood, and the flames were
                done with the clear coat, so they faded in out of view as the car
                mved.. way cool.... might be able to do the same with the parafin.. I
                don't know.



                =====
                Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                Barbarian Freehold Alliance
                Oppurtunity doesn't knock. It only presents itself after you kick down the door.
                --Kyle Chandler

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              • yamashiro_kato@yahoo.com
                ... in Atlantia. Is there a certain thickness of leather and/or a certain style of do that would be best for leather in this type of combat? I m not really
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 28, 2001
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                  --- In sca-jml@y..., "schneider" <schneider@s...> wrote:
                  > I'm thinking of making something out of leather for SCA combat here
                  in Atlantia. Is there a certain thickness of leather and/or a certain
                  style of do that would be best for leather in this type of combat?
                  I'm not really wanting to paint/laquer these things for the labor
                  involved in cleaning and repairing, but is this about the only thing
                  I can do? What about boiling in parafin? Other ppl told me that the
                  leather would be too flimsy for sca combat and I would end up getting
                  hurt a lot. I do well for myself enough with the katana and only get
                  a few bruises and welts on my left thigh.

                  Im my *VERY* limited experience, I can tell you it will be strong
                  enough depending on how you do it. I just finished lacing my armor
                  just last night, which is leather. If my memory holds, I am using 10-
                  12 oz leather. I dyed it, soaked it a little in luke warm water (30
                  seconds), then when it dried, dipped it in a bees wax and parafin
                  mixture (1:1). I feel, that it is strong enough. Of course I
                  haven't "field tested" it yet. When I get my helm and the rest
                  complete, I will let you know. :)

                  I would suspect how you lace it and the positioning of the
                  lames/scales is important. I am using lames and the way I positioned
                  them, at no point on the Do' is there less than a thickness of two
                  lames.

                  I am still new to armoring but I thought I would tell you my
                  experience. I hope it helps.

                  -Yamashiro Kato'
                • fsjlb4@uaf.edu
                  ... In my experience, leather can work as adequate protection, and we hit pretty hard in Oertha, or so I am told (BTW, I m moving down to Atlantia soon. Just
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 28, 2001
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                    On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, schneider wrote:

                    > Hello all!
                    > It's been a while since I posted but I couldn't think of much to aggrivate about :D
                    > I'm thinking of making something out of leather for SCA combat here in Atlantia. Is there a certain thickness of leather and/or a certain style of do that would be best for leather in this type of combat? I'm not really wanting to paint/laquer these things for the labor involved in cleaning and repairing, but is this about the only thing I can do? What about boiling in parafin? Other ppl told me that the leather would be too flimsy for sca combat and I would end up getting hurt a lot. I do well for myself enough with the katana and only get a few bruises and welts on my left thigh.
                    > Any help is greatly appreciated.
                    > Thanks,
                    > Pocy/ Takezo Yoshida

                    In my experience, leather can work as adequate protection, and we hit
                    pretty hard in Oertha, or so I am told (BTW, I'm moving down to Atlantia
                    soon. Just as soon as the paperwork clears, hopefully).

                    Still, I prefer metal. In my experience it has a better protection to
                    weight ratio and is easier to work with. That's just MHO, however.

                    If you want to do a Japanese style armour out of leather but don't want to
                    lacquer it you may want to track down 'Arms and Armour of the Samurai'.
                    IIRC, there is one example of a leather armour that is made of unlaquered
                    leather and held together entirely with leather lacing. While I would
                    hate to see too many of them (as I believe it was an exception, not a
                    rule) it might be an interesting concept to recreate.

                    -Ii
                  • Blkrose@aol.com
                    In a message dated 6/28/2001 3:12:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Great idea. Will be adding to my units practice asap!! :0) Thanks, Syr Theo
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 28, 2001
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                      In a message dated 6/28/2001 3:12:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      grimshieldsson@... writes:


                      Once the unit gets it down... it's nasty
                      and ugly.  Can be done when a singleton charges the line, or if one
                      person in the middle is pushing real hard.  If you can train the shield
                      line to let the person pop through, typically your rear security folk
                      can gang up on him/her before they can really get their wits about them
                      again.  Neat technique, with enough training and fortunately not many
                      units have the cohesion to do it


                      Great idea. Will be adding to my units practice asap!! :0)

                      Thanks, Syr Theo
                    • Grim Shieldsson
                      ... My pleasure... pardon me while I make mental to note to avoid you unit.. :) *LOL* The technique was originally developed becuase a single fighter could tie
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 29, 2001
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                        --- Blkrose@... wrote:
                        > In a message dated 6/28/2001 3:12:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        > grimshieldsson@... writes:
                        >
                        >
                        > > Once the unit gets it down... it's nasty
                        > > and ugly. Can be done when a singleton charges the line, or if one
                        > > person in the middle is pushing real hard. If you can train the
                        > shield
                        > > line to let the person pop through, typically your rear security
                        > folk
                        > > can gang up on him/her before they can really get their wits about
                        > them
                        > > again. Neat technique, with enough training and fortunately not
                        > many
                        > >
                        >
                        > Great idea. Will be adding to my units practice asap!! :0)
                        >
                        > Thanks, Syr Theo

                        My pleasure... pardon me while I make mental to note to avoid you
                        unit.. :) *LOL*
                        The technique was originally developed becuase a single fighter could
                        tie up an entire unit as everyone stopped to take a swing at him. Much
                        better to let the singleton through ( assuming you have folk in the
                        rear to handle him) then to destroy the unit cohesion. This in general
                        assumes the single fighter has some support, ie a unit within charge
                        range.
                        The odd result of this tactic is that some of the fighters forgot how
                        to fight 2+ vs one... Seems the unit commanders have over stressed the
                        unit cohesion thing. So, while training the technique, don't forget to
                        balance it with what to do with just a single fighter with no support.




                        =====
                        Grim Shieldsson (James A Barrows)
                        Acting Chieftain of Clan StormWolf
                        Barbarian Freehold Alliance
                        Oppurtunity doesn't knock. It only presents itself after you kick down the door.
                        --Kyle Chandler

                        __________________________________________________
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