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Re: [SCA-JML] Sohei/yamabushi garb

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  • Carl Grasso
    ... Hello. I think I may have some links but I need to unpack my Mac to get at them. Give me a few days and I ll post them if I still have them. / Seiryu
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 15, 2001
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      --- wcbooth@... wrote:
      > Hey folks...
      >
      > i'm almost ready for pennsic.. but i need a little
      > help.. i can't
      > find any decent Sohei/yamabushi info anywhere....
      > the only good pik
      > is in Edwards book..... anyone got any good links?
      >
      > Nobu
      >
      >
      >


      Hello. I think I may have some links but I need to
      unpack my Mac to get at them. Give me a few days and
      I'll post them if I still have them.

      /\ Seiryu

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    • Barbara Nostrand
      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! The Costum Museum has pictures. Check out the following link: http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/46.htm Your Humble
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 16, 2001
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        Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig! The Costum Museum has pictures. Check
        out the following link:

        http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/46.htm

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar
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      • ronbroberg@yahoo.com
        ... What is that mesh like fabric used as the outer covering? Is there some stiffness to it? What would be a good modern substitute? Onegaishimas --otagiri
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 17, 2001
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          --- In sca-jml@y..., Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@a...> wrote:
          > Noble Cousin!
          >
          > Greetings from Solveig! The Costum Museum has pictures. Check
          > out the following link:
          >
          > http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/46.htm
          >

          What is that "mesh" like fabric used as the outer covering? Is there
          some stiffness to it? What would be a good modern substitute?

          Onegaishimas
          --otagiri
        • Barbara Nostrand
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! It is obviously a somewhat stiff open mesh fabric probably similar to organdi or was it organza I forget exactly what the
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 17, 2001
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig! It is obviously a somewhat stiff open
            mesh fabric probably similar to organdi or was it organza I
            forget exactly what the stuff was called that was used in
            dress making several decades ago. Just go to the fabric store
            and look for something similar. The original is most likely
            made out of silk.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar
            --
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          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... No links, but I can scan in some images of monkish clothing for you. I ll post a link as soon as I get it up. In the meantime, something I suggest people
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 17, 2001
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              wcbooth@... wrote:

              > Hey folks...
              >
              > i'm almost ready for pennsic.. but i need a little help.. i can't
              > find any decent Sohei/yamabushi info anywhere.... the only good pik
              > is in Edwards book..... anyone got any good links?

              No links, but I can scan in some images of monkish clothing for you. I'll
              post a link as soon as I get it up.

              In the meantime, something I suggest people do (something I've only recently
              become really strict on myself) is avoiding the term "yamabushi" for
              "sohei." Yamabushi, written with one set of kanji, does refer to sohei, but
              written with a different set of kanji refers to a specific sect of ascetic
              Buddhist monks who also were known for being badasses, but in a different
              way.

              Effingham
              (who is thinking of putting together some yamabushi gear for Pennsic...)
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... It s a heavy silk gauze. They weren t all gauze; many were regular opaque cloth. Effingham
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 17, 2001
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                ronbroberg@... wrote:

                >
                > What is that "mesh" like fabric used as the outer covering? Is there
                > some stiffness to it? What would be a good modern substitute?
                >

                It's a heavy silk gauze. They weren't all gauze; many were regular opaque
                cloth.


                Effingham
              • wcbooth@hotmail.com
                Hey, Edward, that could be interesting, a bunch of Sohei wandering around....
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 17, 2001
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                  Hey, Edward,
                  that could be interesting, a bunch of Sohei wandering
                  around....
                • Barbara Nostrand
                  Baron Edward! And here I thought that the Yamabushi were a fring cult only marginally Buddhist. I wouldn t have described them as bad-addes , but I would
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                    Baron Edward!

                    And here I thought that the Yamabushi were a fring cult only
                    marginally Buddhist. I wouldn't have described them as "bad-addes",
                    but I would agree that they are rather "interesting."

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar
                    --
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                  • Barbara Nostrand
                    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Note that the gauze is probably starched so that it stands out. I suspect that the gauze variety may simply be a Summer
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                      Noble Cousin!

                      Greetings from Solveig! Note that the gauze is probably starched so
                      that it stands out. I suspect that the gauze variety may simply be
                      a Summer variant.

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar
                      --
                      +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
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                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... They had a lot of old shinto things tied in. It was a rather synchretistic sect. But if you ask a Japanese about the yamabushi, the name he d slap on
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                        Barbara Nostrand wrote:

                        > Baron Edward!
                        >
                        > And here I thought that the Yamabushi were a fring cult only
                        > marginally Buddhist. I wouldn't have described them as "bad-addes",
                        > but I would agree that they are rather "interesting."
                        >

                        They had a lot of old shinto things tied in. It was a rather synchretistic
                        sect. <G> But if you ask a Japanese about the yamabushi, the name he'd slap
                        on would be "a Buddhist sect." The dictionaries call yamabushi "so," which
                        is the term for Buddhist priest, rather than one of the shinto priest terms
                        or something else. <shrug>

                        I've seen a couple of yamabushi servi... well, not services. Hmmm... Things.
                        Yeah, things. Very interesting group.

                        BTW, the bad-ass for yamabushi isn't in their military skills (though they
                        had those in spades); it's for their ability to disappear in the mountains
                        in the winter and survive the depredations of wind and snow and cold as if
                        they didn't even notice them.


                        Effingham
                      • Anthony J. Bryant
                        ... Indeed. Given the lifestyles of these guys vs. those in the capital, the fabric treatment doesn t last long. ... Probably not. These guys typically had one
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                          Barbara Nostrand wrote:

                          > Noble Cousin!
                          >
                          > Greetings from Solveig! Note that the gauze is probably starched so
                          > that it stands out.

                          Indeed. Given the lifestyles of these guys vs. those in the capital, the
                          fabric treatment doesn't last long.

                          > I suspect that the gauze variety may simply be
                          > a Summer variant.

                          Probably not. These guys typically had one robe (they're monastics, after
                          all), and if it was gauze it was gauze; if it was hemp, it was hemp. We're
                          talking the armies of monks, of course, not the more "wealthy" and powerful
                          ones who had other resources.


                          Effingham
                        • wcbooth@hotmail.com
                          ... (though they ... mountains ... cold as if ... Lol.. sounds like they had a little canadian blood in em..hehehe (ok, so it s off topic, but hey, its funny)
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                            > BTW, the bad-ass for yamabushi isn't in their military skills
                            (though they
                            > had those in spades); it's for their ability to disappear in the
                            mountains
                            > in the winter and survive the depredations of wind and snow and
                            cold as if
                            > they didn't even notice them.
                            >
                            >
                            > Effingham

                            Lol.. sounds like they had a little canadian blood in 'em..hehehe

                            (ok, so it's off topic, but hey, its funny)

                            Nobu
                          • Anthony J. Bryant
                            ... Either that or they were really Russian spies down from Siberia. Effingham
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                              wcbooth@... wrote:

                              > > BTW, the bad-ass for yamabushi isn't in their military skills
                              > (though they
                              > > had those in spades); it's for their ability to disappear in the
                              > mountains
                              > > in the winter and survive the depredations of wind and snow and
                              > cold as if
                              > > they didn't even notice them.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Effingham
                              >
                              > Lol.. sounds like they had a little canadian blood in 'em..hehehe
                              >

                              Either that or they were really Russian spies down from Siberia. <G>


                              Effingham
                            • Izumi
                              ... recently ... sohei, but ... ascetic ... different ... Where can I find out what the 2 sets of kanji are? Thanks Izumi Tatsuaki
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                                > In the meantime, something I suggest people do (something I've only
                                recently
                                > become really strict on myself) is avoiding the term "yamabushi" for
                                > "sohei." Yamabushi, written with one set of kanji, does refer to
                                sohei, but
                                > written with a different set of kanji refers to a specific sect of
                                ascetic
                                > Buddhist monks who also were known for being badasses, but in a
                                different
                                > way.

                                Where can I find out what the 2 sets of kanji are?

                                Thanks
                                Izumi Tatsuaki
                              • Anthony J. Bryant
                                ... Can your computer read Japanese? Effingham
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                                  Izumi wrote:

                                  > > In the meantime, something I suggest people do (something I've only
                                  > recently
                                  > > become really strict on myself) is avoiding the term "yamabushi" for
                                  > > "sohei." Yamabushi, written with one set of kanji, does refer to
                                  > sohei, but
                                  > > written with a different set of kanji refers to a specific sect of
                                  > ascetic
                                  > > Buddhist monks who also were known for being badasses, but in a
                                  > different
                                  > > way.
                                  >
                                  > Where can I find out what the 2 sets of kanji are?

                                  Can your computer read Japanese?


                                  Effingham
                                • Barbara Nostrand
                                  Baron Edward! Oh agreed that they are closer to being sort of Buddhists than anything you would find in modern organized Shintoh. But, they are well strange no
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                                    Baron Edward!

                                    Oh agreed that they are closer to being sort of Buddhists than
                                    anything you would find in modern organized Shintoh. But, they
                                    are well strange no matter how you slice it. There is a whole
                                    genre of kyogen plays surrounding their activities. They were
                                    if anything somewhat notorious by the late Muromachi period.

                                    Your Humble Servant
                                    Solveig Throndardottir
                                    Amateur Scholar
                                  • Barbara Nostrand
                                    Tatsuaki Dono! Greetings from Solveig! ... From a Japanese dictionary of course. Seriously, that is where you go to find out what they are. If you computer can
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 19, 2001
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                                      Tatsuaki Dono!

                                      Greetings from Solveig!

                                      >Where can I find out what the 2 sets of kanji are?

                                      From a Japanese dictionary of course. Seriously, that is where
                                      you go to find out what they are. If you computer can display
                                      Japanese, then either Baron Edward or I can send you the two
                                      words. That would be another way.

                                      Your Humble Servant
                                      Solveig Throndardottir
                                      Amateur Scholar

                                      --
                                      +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                                      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
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