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another garb question.....

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  • wcbooth@hotmail.com
    Greetings... Having finaly gotten my hands on a copy of The Samurai by our very own Baron Edward, i have a question.... there is a plate in the book, showing
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 3, 2001
      Greetings...

      Having finaly gotten my hands on a copy of "The Samurai" by our
      very own Baron Edward, i have a question.... there is a plate in the
      book, showing Minamoto, Sato, Ise, and Benkei... what is Benkei
      wearing on his head? and does anyone know how to make one? as well,
      i'm looking for Tabi patterns... any ideas?

      thanks again, all...

      Nobu

      www.angelfire.com/on3/sanazami
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... Tablecloth. Actually, it s a monk s cowl. ... I m still trying to figure out a functional pattern. The simplest version seems to have been a simple
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 6, 2001
        wcbooth@... wrote:

        > Greetings...
        >
        > Having finaly gotten my hands on a copy of "The Samurai" by our
        > very own Baron Edward, i have a question.... there is a plate in the
        > book, showing Minamoto, Sato, Ise, and Benkei... what is Benkei
        > wearing on his head?

        Tablecloth. <G>

        Actually, it's a monk's cowl.

        > and does anyone know how to make one?

        I'm still trying to figure out a functional pattern. The simplest version
        seems to have been a simple rectangle of cloth, but I'm trying to figure out
        the wrapping and tying bit.

        > as well,
        > i'm looking for Tabi patterns... any ideas?
        >

        I'm probably getting the title wrong (because I hate the book) but "Making
        Your Own Japanese Clothes" has a tabi pattern. It's modern, of course, and
        needs lots of modifications to be period; but fortunately the important part
        (the foot/toe issue) is accurate). Period tabi were ankle high or a bit
        more, sewn shut in the back, and opened up the front and tied closed with a
        cord. Oh, and they were made of deerskin.


        Effingham
      • debbie strub
        At 12:50 PM 6/6/2001 -0500, Anthony J. Bryant wrote: Greetings from Tsuruko, Baron Edward, do you happen to have some primary sources of documentation for the
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 24, 2001
          At 12:50 PM 6/6/2001 -0500, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:

          Greetings from Tsuruko,

          Baron Edward, do you happen to have some primary sources of
          documentation for the period tabi you describe in the e-mail excerpt
          below? I've been having a h*** of a time documenting tabi in period
          because most of the paintings I've seen don't show the feet! The few that
          I have seen are late to out of period and they're men. I talked to Liza
          Dalby back in '92 when she was in Portland for a lecture and she says she
          can document the use of tabi as early as the Muromachi period but didn't
          have any actual references with her. My compromise has been using modern
          tabi that I'd worn out, taking them apart and using them for a
          pattern. (I've tried John Marshall's book and the Folkwear pattern and
          this method gives me the best fit. All method's I've used require making
          up a muslin first and fussing with it until it fits/feels right.) I use
          ties or a single small button at the ankle because that's what I've seen in
          the few period paintings I've seen that show feet. Any help would be
          appreciated.

          YIS,

          Murakami Tsuruko


          >wcbooth@... wrote:

          (some snippage)


          > > as well,
          > > i'm looking for Tabi patterns... any ideas?
          > >
          >
          >I'm probably getting the title wrong (because I hate the book) but "Making
          >Your Own Japanese Clothes" has a tabi pattern. It's modern, of course, and
          >needs lots of modifications to be period; but fortunately the important part
          >(the foot/toe issue) is accurate). Period tabi were ankle high or a bit
          >more, sewn shut in the back, and opened up the front and tied closed with a
          >cord. Oh, and they were made of deerskin.
          >
          >
          >Effingham
          >
          >
          >UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... There s a photograph of a pair of surviving 16th C. tabi here: http://www.geocities.com/sengokudaimyo/garb/garbphotos/tabiL.jpg They are described and
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 24, 2001
            debbie strub wrote:

            > At 12:50 PM 6/6/2001 -0500, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:
            >
            > Greetings from Tsuruko,
            >
            > Baron Edward, do you happen to have some primary sources of
            > documentation for the period tabi you describe in the e-mail excerpt
            > below? I've been having a h*** of a time documenting tabi in period
            > because most of the paintings I've seen don't show the feet!

            There's a photograph of a pair of surviving 16th C. tabi here:
            http://www.geocities.com/sengokudaimyo/garb/garbphotos/tabiL.jpg

            They are described and drawn (or photographed) variously in:

            Suzuki Keizo, Yusoku kojitsu zuten (Illustrated dictionary of traditional
            customs and clothing),
            Suzuki Keizo, Yusoku kojitsu daijiten (An encyclopedia of TC&C)
            Kawabata Kinuhide, Yusoku kojitsu zukan (Illustrated record of TC&C)
            Maruyama Nobuhiko, Clothes of the Samurai Warriors,
            and a whole pile of books I'd rather not dig out now because they're holding up
            a precarious pile of papers.

            > The few that
            > I have seen are late to out of period and they're men. I talked to Liza
            > Dalby back in '92 when she was in Portland for a lecture and she says she
            > can document the use of tabi as early as the Muromachi period but didn't
            > have any actual references with her. My compromise has been using modern
            > tabi that I'd worn out, taking them apart and using them for a
            > pattern.

            Marshall's book actually gives a good basis; the pattern adaptations are simple
            enough. The back is a solid seam, the sides come up over the ankle, and the
            opening is at the front instead of a solid seam.

            > (I've tried John Marshall's book and the Folkwear pattern and
            > this method gives me the best fit. All method's I've used require making
            > up a muslin first and fussing with it until it fits/feels right.) I use
            > ties or a single small button at the ankle because that's what I've seen in
            > the few period paintings I've seen that show feet. Any help would be
            > appreciated.
            >

            Check out the photo. Let me know if you need more help.

            Effingham
          • debbie strub
            Many thanks! This is exactly what I ve been looking for. Can you tell me what book the photo is from? I can easily modify my existing tabi pattern to this
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 25, 2001
              Many thanks! This is exactly what I've been looking for. Can you
              tell me what book the photo is from?
              I can easily modify my existing tabi pattern to this style.
              I'll check out my ILL to see if I can get some of the books you
              recommended.

              Tsuruko

              At 11:59 PM 6/24/2001 -0500, you wrote:
              >debbie strub wrote:
              >
              > > At 12:50 PM 6/6/2001 -0500, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:
              > >
              > > Greetings from Tsuruko,
              > >
              > > Baron Edward, do you happen to have some primary sources of
              > > documentation for the period tabi you describe in the e-mail excerpt
              > > below? I've been having a h*** of a time documenting tabi in period
              > > because most of the paintings I've seen don't show the feet!
              >
              >There's a photograph of a pair of surviving 16th C. tabi here:
              >http://www.geocities.com/sengokudaimyo/garb/garbphotos/tabiL.jpg
              >
              >They are described and drawn (or photographed) variously in:
              >
              >Suzuki Keizo, Yusoku kojitsu zuten (Illustrated dictionary of traditional
              >customs and clothing),
              >Suzuki Keizo, Yusoku kojitsu daijiten (An encyclopedia of TC&C)
              >Kawabata Kinuhide, Yusoku kojitsu zukan (Illustrated record of TC&C)
              >Maruyama Nobuhiko, Clothes of the Samurai Warriors,
              >and a whole pile of books I'd rather not dig out now because they're
              >holding up
              >a precarious pile of papers.
              >
              > > The few that
              > > I have seen are late to out of period and they're men. I talked to Liza
              > > Dalby back in '92 when she was in Portland for a lecture and she says she
              > > can document the use of tabi as early as the Muromachi period but didn't
              > > have any actual references with her. My compromise has been using modern
              > > tabi that I'd worn out, taking them apart and using them for a
              > > pattern.
              >
              >Marshall's book actually gives a good basis; the pattern adaptations are
              >simple
              >enough. The back is a solid seam, the sides come up over the ankle, and the
              >opening is at the front instead of a solid seam.
              >
              > > (I've tried John Marshall's book and the Folkwear pattern and
              > > this method gives me the best fit. All method's I've used require making
              > > up a muslin first and fussing with it until it fits/feels right.) I use
              > > ties or a single small button at the ankle because that's what I've seen in
              > > the few period paintings I've seen that show feet. Any help would be
              > > appreciated.
              > >
              >
              >Check out the photo. Let me know if you need more help.
              >
              >Effingham
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... The photo is from Clothes of the Samurai. It s better than using the period drawings which just look funky. ... Cornell s library s Asian Collection
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 25, 2001
                debbie strub wrote:

                > Many thanks! This is exactly what I've been looking for. Can you
                > tell me what book the photo is from?

                The photo is from Clothes of the Samurai. It's better than using the period
                drawings which just look funky. <G>

                >
                > I can easily modify my existing tabi pattern to this style.
                > I'll check out my ILL to see if I can get some of the books you
                > recommended.

                Cornell's library's Asian Collection has the Suzuki books.

                Effingham
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