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RE: [SCA-JML] Suikan stuff:

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  • C. J. Wallace
    ... I m a complete novice when it comes to sewing, so please forgive me if this sounds stupid, but how should the cords fastened to the collar? ... As a matter
    Message 1 of 4 , May 2, 2001
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      > Instead of a frog fastening at the collar as with a kariginu, two
      > long round cords (one from the center back of the collar, one
      > from the end of the
      > front collar) are provided. The cords can be tied at the neck, or
      > the garment can be worn with an open collar and the cords tied at
      > the chest to keep
      > everything together.

      I'm a complete novice when it comes to sewing, so please forgive me if this
      sounds stupid, but how should the cords fastened to the collar?

      > The
      > garment has pairs of kikutoji placed in five locations: center
      > chest on the seam, at the shoulder seam with each sleeve, and the
      > center seam at the
      > back of each sleeve.

      As a matter of interest, how are kikutoji made?

      > the top. Unlike the four-panel kobakama worn with the older style
      > suikan, the suikan hakama was made with six panels as those worn
      > with a kariginu
      > for a more full silhouette. It was often made like sashinuki, to
      > be tied closed at the ankle or knee.

      So is a suikan hakama essentially a fuller version of the pattern in the
      files section? If the hakama is a sashinuki hakama, how much longer should
      it be, and how should cords be incorporated so as to tie it at the ankle?
      Also, what purpose does the white cord running along the top of the hakama
      just under the himo serve?

      Thank you for all the wonderful information; I have truly learned a great
      deal. Unfortunately, it's extremely unlikely that I will be able to come to
      Pennsic this year, as I will probably be spending the summer working for
      college, or, if I'm lucking, taking an immersion course in Japanese.

      Sincerely,

      Christopher Wallace
    • fsjlb4@aurora.uaf.edu
      ... Jidai Isshou no Nuikata shows a rolling of the collar, I believe. The cord goes through this roll, it would appear. ... The diagram here says to take a
      Message 2 of 4 , May 2, 2001
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        On Wed, 2 May 2001, C. J. Wallace wrote:

        > > front collar) are provided. The cords can be tied at the neck, or
        > > the garment can be worn with an open collar and the cords tied at
        > > the chest to keep
        > > everything together.
        >
        > I'm a complete novice when it comes to sewing, so please forgive me if this
        > sounds stupid, but how should the cords fastened to the collar?

        "Jidai Isshou no Nuikata" shows a rolling of the collar, I believe. The
        cord goes through this roll, it would appear.

        > > The
        > > garment has pairs of kikutoji placed in five locations: center
        > > chest on the seam, at the shoulder seam with each sleeve, and the
        > > center seam at the
        > > back of each sleeve.
        >
        > As a matter of interest, how are kikutoji made?

        The diagram here says to take a piece of string and twist it around
        something with a circumerence about four times the radius of your
        kikutoji. Roll it, bunch it together, you should now have a roll, like
        yarn comes from the store, about the diameter of the kikutoji. Tie up the
        center with one end of the string. Then, once it is tied, cut the ends to
        open it up.

        > > the top. Unlike the four-panel kobakama worn with the older style
        > > suikan, the suikan hakama was made with six panels as those worn
        > > with a kariginu
        > > for a more full silhouette. It was often made like sashinuki, to
        > > be tied closed at the ankle or knee.
        >
        > So is a suikan hakama essentially a fuller version of the pattern in the
        > files section? If the hakama is a sashinuki hakama, how much longer should
        > it be, and how should cords be incorporated so as to tie it at the ankle?
        > Also, what purpose does the white cord running along the top of the hakama
        > just under the himo serve?

        Not sure here. Still need to find out more. Wearing one that was from an
        extant piece, exactly (thus, small on me) I still had a foot to a foot and
        a half I believe, trailing behind me. Don't know if that was usual or
        not, though.

        > Thank you for all the wonderful information; I have truly learned a great
        > deal. Unfortunately, it's extremely unlikely that I will be able to come to
        > Pennsic this year, as I will probably be spending the summer working for
        > college, or, if I'm lucking, taking an immersion course in Japanese.

        Good luck!

        -Ii
      • Anthony J. Bryant
        ... It s not stupid at all. You have to have the opportunity to see the detail close up to get it. The collar is flat; the standard pattern is folded in half
        Message 3 of 4 , May 2, 2001
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          "C. J. Wallace" wrote:

          > > Instead of a frog fastening at the collar as with a kariginu, two
          > > long round cords (one from the center back of the collar, one
          > > from the end of the
          > > front collar) are provided. The cords can be tied at the neck, or
          > > the garment can be worn with an open collar and the cords tied at
          > > the chest to keep
          > > everything together.
          >
          > I'm a complete novice when it comes to sewing, so please forgive me if this
          > sounds stupid, but how should the cords fastened to the collar?
          >

          It's not stupid at all. You have to have the opportunity to see the detail close up to get it.

          The collar is flat; the standard pattern is folded in half lengthwise, then the two halves folded IN lengthwise.

          The front cord emerges from INSIDE the collar (it's sewn into the end) straight out parallel to the collar.

          The back cord is sewn to the middle of the back at the neck and hangs straight down, then the collar is sewn on over it, so that cord is
          perpendicular to the collar.

          >
          > > The
          > > garment has pairs of kikutoji placed in five locations: center
          > > chest on the seam, at the shoulder seam with each sleeve, and the
          > > center seam at the
          > > back of each sleeve.
          >
          > As a matter of interest, how are kikutoji made?
          >

          Hard to describe clearly without pictures. Take a card about 3" wide. Get some heavy gauge, stiff thread. Start wrapping the thread around the card.
          Wrap it a couple of hundred times. Slip the pile of loops off the card, and with a short piece of thread tie the center closed, so you have something
          looking like a bow tie (loops at the ends). Cut the loops with scissors. carefully, slowly, patiently, start spreading out the threads to form a
          disc, with that knot you tied at the center. When it's done, put a drop of glue at the center (back) and let it set. That's one.

          I must have done 25 before I did one I liked. And the next three sucked. <G>

          >
          > > the top. Unlike the four-panel kobakama worn with the older style
          > > suikan, the suikan hakama was made with six panels as those worn
          > > with a kariginu
          > > for a more full silhouette. It was often made like sashinuki, to
          > > be tied closed at the ankle or knee.
          >
          > So is a suikan hakama essentially a fuller version of the pattern in the
          > files section?

          Ummm.... well.... I guess you could say that basically that's the case, but it's really a different pattern entirely. More leg panels, for one thing.

          > If the hakama is a sashinuki hakama, how much longer should
          > it be, and how should cords be incorporated so as to tie it at the ankle?

          The length can be up to half again as long as regular hakama. This is a more formal (big blousey bits) version. I'd go with a minimum of an extra
          foot or 18". The cords themselves run through the ankle hem; a small cutout on the inside of the ankle lets the cord ends emerge.

          >
          > Also, what purpose does the white cord running along the top of the hakama
          > just under the himo serve?
          >

          It's primarily decorative, but it also provides some strength to the himo being secured to the body of the hakama.

          >
          > Thank you for all the wonderful information; I have truly learned a great
          > deal. Unfortunately, it's extremely unlikely that I will be able to come to
          > Pennsic this year, as I will probably be spending the summer working for
          > college, or, if I'm lucking, taking an immersion course in Japanese.

          Well, those are good reasons. <g>


          Effingham
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