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Re: [SCA-JML] Late Heian Men's Clothing & "Jidai Ishou no Nuikata" Patterns

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... The fabric depends on the *type* of persona and the purpose of the garment. I have linen suikan, not silk, myself. Hakama (usually sashinuki) are worn with
    Message 1 of 7 , May 1, 2001
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      "C. J. Wallace" wrote:

      > Thank you for the advice; I've actually been considering using the
      > pattern that you mentioned for a while, but due to my lack of
      > knowledge of such garments and substandard sewing skills was a bit
      > intimidated by the absence of directions. I guess I'll have to give it
      > a try soon, using my poor translations of the "Jidai Ishou no Nuikata"
      > pattern as crutch for my ignorance of period clothing. What fabric
      > should I use, by the way? I noticed that you recommend habotai on you
      > website (which I enjoyed immensely), but what weight is appropriate,
      > and to what extent is colour restricted?Also, what other garments
      > accompany the suikan? I gather that several kosode (of similar or
      > different patterns?) are used, but what about hitoe and under-hakama?

      The fabric depends on the *type* of persona and the purpose of the
      garment. I have linen suikan, not silk, myself.

      Hakama (usually sashinuki) are worn with a suikan, and a kosode. If the
      hakama aren't lined, you might also want to make a set of under hakama
      (similar cut to sashinuki, but only ankle length, lightweight, and
      usually something like white or a natural color.

      Don't bother apologizing; we all have to start somewhere, and you're
      asking the right questions.

      If you can come to Pennsic, you should come to my garb class.

      Effingham
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... Bingo. (Bungo? Echizen?) ... That first one represents Yoshitsune in his first encounter with Benkei on the Go-jo Bridge. ... Fair warning: kikutoji are
      Message 2 of 7 , May 1, 2001
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        "J. Badgley" wrote:

        >
        > From the way I read it, it seems as though one should only need to adjust
        > the measurements to create the proper garment.
        >

        Bingo. (Bungo? Echizen?)

        >
        > Looking at the Kyoto Costume Museum's web site (you can find the links in
        > the bookmarks section of the yahoo!groups page) I found that pattern used
        > in two places, apparently:
        >
        > http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/47.htm
        > http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/wayou/49.htm
        >
        > The first appears to be wearing the sashinuki as well; it is a young
        > child, it seems, but I don't know that this has any bearing on the pattern
        > other than size.
        >

        That first one represents Yoshitsune in his first encounter with Benkei on the Go-jo Bridge.

        >
        > I did notice the kikutouji (poms) on other, adult suikan as well.
        >

        Fair warning: kikutoji are flat, not true pompoms. Just so people don't get confused. <G>

        > Not sure, but 'kuzufu' is grass cloth and 'katsui' is a thin, coarse hemp
        > kimono (katsu being another pronunciation of 'kuzu') so I would think it
        > might be referring to the fabric used in the sashinuki. Anoyone else know
        > better?

        It's a type of linen.


        Effingham
      • Anthony J. Bryant
        ... A word of warning: the word hitoe is like the word shirt -- it applies to several different garments. In terms of men s clothing, a hitoe is
        Message 3 of 7 , May 1, 2001
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          Kass McGann wrote:

          > I don't know if "several" kosode are worn. Remember that this is not
          > a formal outfit. I would wear a white kosode, a red or white hitoe
          > (just cut a little larger than the kosode), and sashinuki hakama in a
          > contrasting colour (unless you want to portray a servant, and then
          > it's all white). You can use the pattern in the files section here
          > for the hakama.

          A word of warning: the word "hitoe" is like the word "shirt" -- it
          applies to several different garments. In terms of men's clothing, a
          hitoe is mid-length, open-sided, big-sleeved, unlined, stiff, robe worn
          under formal coats like the ho and kariginu; it wouldn't be worn with a
          suikan that I can imagine. You're probably thinking "hitoe" in terms of
          unlined robe thing... it's a girl thing, no? <G>

          Effingham
        • Kass McGann
          A word of warning: the word hitoe is like the word shirt -- it applies to several different garments. In terms of men s clothing, a hitoe is mid-length,
          Message 4 of 7 , May 1, 2001
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            A word of warning: the word "hitoe" is like the word "shirt" -- it
            applies to several different garments. In terms of men's clothing, a
            hitoe is mid-length, open-sided, big-sleeved, unlined, stiff, robe worn
            under formal coats like the ho and kariginu; it wouldn't be worn with a
            suikan that I can imagine. You're probably thinking "hitoe" in terms of
            unlined robe thing... it's a girl thing, no? <G>
            >>>>>
            Well, like, duh!  I'm just a girl...  ;)
             
            So "hitoe" doesn't always mean "singlet"?  It actually has more meaning than that when referring to a male garment?  News to me.  I believe you.  You know male stuff isn't my gig...
             
            Kass
            aka Fujiwara no Aoi
          • Barbara Nostrand
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Yes. And make the garment bigger than you think it should be unless of course you already know what you are doing.
            Message 5 of 7 , May 1, 2001
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              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!

              > > From the way I read it, it seems as though one should only need to adjust
              >> the measurements to create the proper garment.
              >>
              >
              >Bingo. (Bungo? Echizen?)

              Yes. And make the garment bigger than you think it should be unless
              of course you already know what you are doing. Basically, Japanese
              garments are not "fitted" they are adjusted to the body each time
              they are put on.

              I checked out the "pom poms" and they do appear on adult garments
              as well. The only things you need worry about are size and color
              choice.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
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            • C. J. Wallace
              ... Okay, I see. Thank you for your help. Sincerely, Christopher Wallace
              Message 6 of 7 , May 2, 2001
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                > Yes. And make the garment bigger than you think it should be unless
                > of course you already know what you are doing. Basically, Japanese
                > garments are not "fitted" they are adjusted to the body each time
                > they are put on.
                >
                > I checked out the "pom poms" and they do appear on adult garments
                > as well. The only things you need worry about are size and color
                > choice.

                Okay, I see. Thank you for your help.

                Sincerely,

                Christopher Wallace
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