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RE: noren and amazake was Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head

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  • Munson, Eric
    ... use them - they re just a rectangle of fabric, after all. ... what sake would have been like if made by peasants/farmers - home brew, if you will. Without
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 2, 2001
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      > ----------
      > From: Gara of Lions Gate
      > What I really want is a digital camera so I can take pictures of
      > everything and post them to you guys so I can find out more about them.
      ------ I wish I could afford to get you one, Gara-dono!

      > Thank you Mokurai-bozu for confirming Pocy's guess at them being noren
      ------ Eh. Pocy gets first credits - I just want to see people make them and
      use them - they're just a rectangle of fabric, after all.
      >
      > The amazake is just nasty, it's not even clear like real sake. It's a
      > murky whitish color, it's very sweet, doesn't taste too much alcohol, and
      > the one I sampled had disgusting chunks of mushy rice in it. Lucky
      > Mokurai-bozu for sampling something less gross. Maybe it varies from
      > place to place... can anybody confirm on that? And is amazake period?
      --------- I'd like this confirmed also. I have long suspected that this is
      what sake would have been like if made by peasants/farmers - home brew, if
      you will. Without the benefit of lots of filtering (I. e. time and serious
      equipment). Since it is a traditional holiday thing, I'd suspect it's period
      for that reason also. Fujiwara could confirm this for me since I heard it
      form her, but I think this is the traditional sake used in some ceremonies
      such as when a person enters a family/household. Sake is the beverage for
      weddings, of course, but I don't know which type is appropriate. At my
      wedding, we used regular sake, but had been recommended to use "new sake".
      We just didn't know where to find any. I now know you can buy it in the
      states at Yaohan's supermarket/plaza.
      Sorry you didn't like it Gara-dono. We applaud your bravery in the face of
      floatees! I suspect it is a matter of brand choice.

      - mokurai-bozu
    • wcbooth@hotmail.com
      ... It s a ... alcohol, and ... Lucky ... from ... period? ... this is ... brew, if ... serious ... it s period ... heard it ... ceremonies ... beverage for
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 2, 2001
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        --- In sca-jml@y..., "Munson, Eric" <eric.munson@r...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > > ----------
        > > From: Gara of Lions Gate
        > > The amazake is just nasty, it's not even clear like real sake.
        It's a
        > > murky whitish color, it's very sweet, doesn't taste too much
        alcohol, and
        > > the one I sampled had disgusting chunks of mushy rice in it.
        Lucky
        > > Mokurai-bozu for sampling something less gross. Maybe it varies
        from
        > > place to place... can anybody confirm on that? And is amazake
        period?
        > --------- I'd like this confirmed also. I have long suspected that
        this is
        > what sake would have been like if made by peasants/farmers - home
        brew, if
        > you will. Without the benefit of lots of filtering (I. e. time and
        serious
        > equipment). Since it is a traditional holiday thing, I'd suspect
        it's period
        > for that reason also. Fujiwara could confirm this for me since I
        heard it
        > form her, but I think this is the traditional sake used in some
        ceremonies
        > such as when a person enters a family/household. Sake is the
        beverage for
        > weddings, of course, but I don't know which type is appropriate. At
        my
        > wedding, we used regular sake, but had been recommended to use "new
        sake".
        > We just didn't know where to find any. I now know you can buy it in
        the
        > states at Yaohan's supermarket/plaza.
        > Sorry you didn't like it Gara-dono. We applaud your bravery in the
        face of
        > floatees! I suspect it is a matter of brand choice.
        >
        > - mokurai-bozu

        Well, tomodashi, from what i have gleaned from my copy of " A
        Popular Dictionary of Shinto(NTC/Contemporary publishing Co. ISBN 0-
        8442-0425-0)" is the following....

        the white, unrefined (cloudy) sake is called Doburoku, usualy was
        Home brew, but Sake made at Shinto shrines, was usualy called by
        different names, and made in the Skadono, or sake hall, for special
        events. The various names given to these sakes, were Miki, or O-
        Miki,Kuroki(the old name for dark{Kuro}sake)and Shiroki(light Sake),
        and were offerings used at the Niinamesai (autumn festival. Dark and
        Light Sake have also traditionaly been interpreted as refines and
        unrefined sake, however, instructions for making these offerings are
        found in the Engi-shiki, where light sake is natural sake, and dark
        sake is made by mixing of kusagi( a kind of arrowroot) {if you ask
        me, that sounds more disgusting than Amazake}

        and speaking of sake, i am right now starting a batch of Doburoku,
        using Koji, and Sake yeast.. later, i'll be making more by using the
        other recipe found on my website.... the one in PDF format... anyhow,
        i will keep you all informed, and if i make it to pennsic, i'll be
        shareing!! ;) again, i'll keep you informed...

        and i humbly apologise for not getting the names list up yet... there
        have been various and sundry things happening..... including real life
        (ugghhh).....

        Yours in sake

        Nobumitsu
        www.angelfire.com/on3/sanazami
      • Munson, Eric
        ... Is there a bibliography page or section on your site, Nobu? In any case, I think I need this book. - mokurai-bozu.
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 2, 2001
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          > ----------
          > From: wcbooth@...
          > Well, tomodashi, from what i have gleaned from my copy of " A
          > Popular Dictionary of Shinto(NTC/Contemporary publishing Co. ISBN 0-
          > 8442-0425-0)" is the following....
          >
          > the white, unrefined (cloudy) sake is called Doburoku, usualy was
          > Home brew, but Sake made at Shinto shrines, was usualy called by
          > different names, and made in the Skadono, or sake hall, for special
          > events. The various names given to these sakes, were Miki, or O-
          > Miki,Kuroki(the old name for dark{Kuro}sake)and Shiroki(light Sake),
          > and were offerings used at the Niinamesai (autumn festival. Dark and
          > Light Sake have also traditionaly been interpreted as refines and
          > unrefined sake, however, instructions for making these offerings are
          > found in the Engi-shiki, where light sake is natural sake, and dark
          > sake is made by mixing of kusagi( a kind of arrowroot) {if you ask
          > me, that sounds more disgusting than Amazake}
          >
          > and speaking of sake, i am right now starting a batch of Doburoku,
          > using Koji, and Sake yeast.. later, i'll be making more by using the
          > other recipe found on my website.... the one in PDF format... anyhow,
          > i will keep you all informed, and if i make it to pennsic, i'll be
          > shareing!! ;) again, i'll keep you informed...
          >
          > ----- In the vernacular of this strange barbarian land, "Dude! You rule!"
          Is there a bibliography page or section on your site, Nobu? In any case, I
          think I need this book.

          - mokurai-bozu.
        • Barbara Nostrand
          Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! Are you interested in The Chemistry of Sake Brewing in PDF format? That is a copy of a monograph published about a
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 2, 2001
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            Noble Cousins!

            Greetings from Solveig! Are you interested in "The Chemistry of Sake
            Brewing" in PDF format? That is a copy of a monograph published
            about a hundred years ago. I also have a recipe for quick Amazake from
            about 1640. Actually, I would like to have someone test the quick Amazake
            recipe.

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar
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          • Ron Martino
            ... Sensei, sometimes you asked the silliest questions... Of /course/ we are interested in such a treatise. Would you be able to upload it to the file section?
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 2, 2001
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              > Greetings from Solveig! Are you interested in "The Chemistry of Sake
              > Brewing" in PDF format? That is a copy of a monograph published
              > about a hundred years ago. I also have a recipe for quick Amazake from
              > about 1640. Actually, I would like to have someone test the quick Amazake
              > recipe.
              >
              > Your Humble Servant
              > Solveig Throndardottir
              > Amateur Scholar

              Sensei, sometimes you asked the silliest questions...

              Of /course/ we are interested in such a treatise. Would you be able to
              upload it to the file section?

              Yumitori
              --

              yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com
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            • wcbooth@hotmail.com
              ... from ... Amazake ... Solvieg-Dono.. i would love to try that amazake recipe.. i have 2.5 Lbs of Koji to use up.... i might reserve some of the koji to make
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 2, 2001
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                --- In sca-jml@y..., Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@a...> wrote:
                > Noble Cousins!
                >
                > Greetings from Solveig! Are you interested in "The Chemistry of Sake
                > Brewing" in PDF format? That is a copy of a monograph published
                > about a hundred years ago. I also have a recipe for quick Amazake
                from
                > about 1640. Actually, I would like to have someone test the quick
                Amazake
                > recipe.
                >
                > Your Humble Servant
                > Solveig Throndardottir
                > Amateur Scholar


                Solvieg-Dono.. i would love to try that amazake recipe.. i have 2.5
                Lbs of Koji to use up.... i might reserve some of the koji to make
                more later though....


                Nobumitsu

                www.angelfire.com/on3/sanazami
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... Oh, yeah, like none of us know about THAT one... oy.... Effingham
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 2, 2001
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                  wcbooth@... wrote:

                  >
                  > and i humbly apologise for not getting the names list up yet... there
                  > have been various and sundry things happening..... including real life
                  > (ugghhh).....

                  Oh, yeah, like none of us know about THAT one... oy....
                  <G>

                  Effingham
                • Barbara Nostrand
                  Noble Cousins! All right. I actually have several sake recipes. (There is a whole chapter on sake in Ryorimonogatari.) However, since folks have been talking
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 3, 2001
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                    Noble Cousins!

                    All right. I actually have several sake recipes. (There is a whole
                    chapter on sake in Ryorimonogatari.) However, since folks have been
                    talking about amazake I will post that recipe.

                    Incidentally, this project is reminding me of why I hate J->E dictionaries.

                    Wash 1.8 liters of dessicated steamed rice in hot water and place to the
                    side. Add 2.7 liters of water to 1.8 liters of koji and grind it well
                    in a serated mortar. (Yes. This is what it really says. It says to
                    grind it in a suribachi after combining it with water.) Then strain it
                    with a suinou (basically a strainer). Put the three ingredients in a
                    pot. Simmer the mixture while stirring gently and it will be ready in
                    short order. You can also add white sugar.

                    The stuff sounds nasty. I should point out that this is in a section
                    on "cooking sake". This stuff may not be fit to drink and it may be
                    a quick substitute for amazake rather than a way to actually make the
                    stuff. The mystery rice ingredient is literally "doumyouji". Hirano
                    Masa'aki is the source for this business about how the "dessicated
                    steamed rice". Possibly more likely is the fact that "doumyouji" is
                    the name for a particular kind of mochi candy. Basically, sweet mochi.
                    This explains both the sweetness and possibly some of the grinding.

                    If you are reasonably brave, please try this out and tell me what
                    becomes of it.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar
                    --
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                    | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                    | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
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                  • wcbooth@hotmail.com
                    ... ~snip~ ... to the ... well ... it ... in ... the ... mochi. ... Solvieg-dono..... Thank you for your work... i think that a lot of us here will be looking
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 4, 2001
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                      --- In sca-jml@y..., Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@a...> wrote:
                      ~snip~
                      > Wash 1.8 liters of dessicated steamed rice in hot water and place
                      to the
                      > side. Add 2.7 liters of water to 1.8 liters of koji and grind it
                      well
                      > in a serated mortar. (Yes. This is what it really says. It says to
                      > grind it in a suribachi after combining it with water.) Then strain
                      it
                      > with a suinou (basically a strainer). Put the three ingredients in a
                      > pot. Simmer the mixture while stirring gently and it will be ready
                      in
                      > short order. You can also add white sugar.
                      >
                      > The stuff sounds nasty. I should point out that this is in a section
                      > on "cooking sake". This stuff may not be fit to drink and it may be
                      > a quick substitute for amazake rather than a way to actually make
                      the
                      > stuff. The mystery rice ingredient is literally "doumyouji". Hirano
                      > Masa'aki is the source for this business about how the "dessicated
                      > steamed rice". Possibly more likely is the fact that "doumyouji" is
                      > the name for a particular kind of mochi candy. Basically, sweet
                      mochi.
                      > This explains both the sweetness and possibly some of the grinding.
                      >
                      > If you are reasonably brave, please try this out and tell me what
                      > becomes of it.


                      Solvieg-dono.....

                      Thank you for your work... i think that a lot of
                      us here will be looking forwards(and starting to gather ingredients
                      as we speak) to that, and i am 99.44% sure, that the recipies will be
                      tested..... on the subject of Amazake, I have tasted Koji (rice
                      attacked by a certain fungus) and i can say, that I know know why
                      sake has such a powerfull kick... The koji does one heck of a good
                      job at breaking down the starches in the rice... it's verry sweet, if
                      you ever try some... so, i think( and i'm just guessing here) that
                      the term Doumyouji, is in fact the name of the lees of the sake...
                      which, btw, can be used to pickle cucumbers, or fish( am NOT
                      attempting the fish... i like myself too much). if anyone can comfirm
                      or deny my inferal, please do so... and Solvieg, you are forgetting
                      about one thing.... Mountain whale is VERY tasty!!! ;)

                      yours in Sake..

                      Nobumitsu
                      www.angelfire.com/on3/sanazami
                    • Barbara Nostrand
                      Noble Cousin! They may indeed be the lees as you describe them. It is unclear. As I wrote earlier, there is a type of omochi candy called Domyoji, but Hirano
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 4, 2001
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                        Noble Cousin!

                        They may indeed be the lees as you describe them. It is unclear.
                        As I wrote earlier, there is a type of omochi candy called Domyoji,
                        but Hirano does not give that explanation. Unfortunately, Domyoji
                        does not show up in either of my kogojiten. I suppose that I will
                        have to break down and buy a copy of the encyclopedic cooking
                        dictionary. It may be in there. Someplace, I have a commercial
                        Japanese candy cookbook, but I am not sure where it is at the
                        moment.

                        Yes. Mountain whale can be quite tasty. But, the whale recipes
                        are for the kind that swim in the ocean. I also have recipes for
                        dog, tanuki, river otter, deer, &c.

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar
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                      • Barbara Nostrand
                        Noble Cousin! In amongst recipes for salting down whale and making overnight sushi, I found a recipe for Shirokawa Amazake which takes about 3 days during the
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 4, 2001
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                          Noble Cousin!

                          In amongst recipes for salting down whale and making overnight sushi,
                          I found a recipe for Shirokawa Amazake which takes about 3 days during
                          the Summer and about 5 days during the Winter. Are you interested in
                          that one as well?

                          Your Humble Servant
                          Solveig Throndardottir
                          Amateur Scholar
                          --
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                          | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
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                        • wcbooth@hotmail.com
                          ... sushi, ... during ... of course! Nobu
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 4, 2001
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                            --- In sca-jml@y..., Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@a...> wrote:
                            > Noble Cousin!
                            >
                            > In amongst recipes for salting down whale and making overnight
                            sushi,
                            > I found a recipe for Shirokawa Amazake which takes about 3 days
                            during
                            > the Summer and about 5 days during the Winter. Are you interested in
                            > that one as well?

                            of course!

                            Nobu
                          • Barbara Nostrand
                            Noble Cousins! I just thought that I would mention that paper bags appear in the food preservation section of Ryorimonogatari which puts them back to at least
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 4, 2001
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                              Noble Cousins!

                              I just thought that I would mention that paper bags appear in the food
                              preservation section of Ryorimonogatari which puts them back to at
                              least 1640. Before you quote me on that one, please let me check the
                              original monjo to be sure. But, it looks like we do have paper bags
                              available. Just think of the amusement potential. There you are in
                              the feast hall and you whip out your paper bag made out of washi.

                              Your Humble Servant
                              Solveig Throndardottir
                              Amateur Scholar
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