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Shaved head

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  • stephen higa
    So-- I don t particularly want to have to shave my head as a Zen monk. Is there a way to create the illusion? Is there a kind of head-covering I can wear and
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 13, 2001
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      So--

      I don't particularly want to have to shave my head as a Zen monk. Is there
      a way to create the illusion? Is there a kind of head-covering I can wear
      and hide my hair underneath it? A hat? For this past event, I just knotted
      my hair up and tied a linen rag around my head in the way peasants sometimes
      do in the pictures...But what would be appropriate once I'm actually
      initiated?

      Alternatively, is there any way a 16th c. Zen monk would NOT have had his
      head shaved? Are there any particular schools that don't require it, or
      good reasons not to?

      Sorry I keep asking these silly questions, but I know that the last thing
      you honorable gentles would want would be an inaccurate portrayal of a
      period Japanese person. ;) I'm doing my best. Soon I shall make a trip to
      the library, but it's worth finding out if anyone knows the answers first.

      Health attend you,
      Nameless Person
      mumei no hito

      P.S. There was a famous Heian Buddhist monk named Kuukai (sky-ocean);
      would Tenkai (heaven/sky-ocean) be an acceptable (possibly documentable for
      the heralds) homyo, using an authentic meaning but just changing the words?
      ------------------------------------------------------
      Only a voice,
      A dim voice whispers where the shadow of a man
      Visibly lay, but when I looked
      It had vanished--
      This flickering form...
      Like haze over the fields.

      --Seami Motokiyo (1363-1444)
    • Don Luby
      ... Personally, I wouldn t worry that much (at all?) about having the proper hairstyle if it would impinge on your mundane life - I don t think I ve yet met a
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 14, 2001
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        On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, stephen higa wrote:

        > So--
        >
        > I don't particularly want to have to shave my head as a Zen monk.
        > Is there a way to create the illusion? Is there a kind of
        > head-covering I can wear and hide my hair underneath it? A hat?
        > For this past event, I just knotted my hair up and tied a linen rag
        > around my head in the way peasants sometimes do in the
        > pictures...But what would be appropriate once I'm actually
        > initiated?
        >
        > Alternatively, is there any way a 16th c. Zen monk would NOT have
        > had his head shaved? Are there any particular schools that don't
        > require it, or good reasons not to?
        >
        > Sorry I keep asking these silly questions, but I know that the last
        > thing you honorable gentles would want would be an inaccurate
        > portrayal of a period Japanese person. ;) I'm doing my best. Soon
        > I shall make a trip to the library, but it's worth finding out if
        > anyone knows the answers first.

        Personally, I wouldn't worry that much (at all?) about having the
        proper hairstyle if it would impinge on your mundane life - I don't
        think I've yet met a samurai in the SCA who shaved his head and kept a
        proper topknot (though I will admit that I did think about it 10 years
        ago when I was younger and very enthusiastic), and I've been around
        for 15 years and am a member of what's probably the largest Japanese
        household in the SCA.
        So it comes down to: if you don't want to shave your head, don't;
        having a Zen monk with hair is certainly no more incorrect than all
        those yougn unmarried gaijin women walking around without head
        coverings.

        > Health attend you,
        > Nameless Person
        > mumei no hito
        >
        > P.S. There was a famous Heian Buddhist monk named Kuukai
        > (sky-ocean); would Tenkai (heaven/sky-ocean) be an acceptable
        > (possibly documentable for the heralds) homyo, using an authentic
        > meaning but just changing the words?


        Koredono

        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no Koredono
        djl@... Yama-kaminari-ryu
        Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc
      • Munson, Eric
        gassho, mumei-bo, ... The most common and easiest is the chef s hat - looks like a sort of big, floppy chef s hat or Renaissance hat but with a sort of
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 14, 2001
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          gassho, mumei-bo,



          > I don't particularly want to have to shave my head as a Zen monk. Is
          > there
          > a way to create the illusion? Is there a kind of head-covering I can wear
          > and hide my hair underneath it? A hat?
          ------- There are several head coverings for Buddhist clergy, but they vary.
          The most common and easiest is the "chef's hat" - looks like a sort of big,
          floppy chef's hat or "Renaissance hat" but with a sort of tail - remember
          those French Foreign Legion hats? Imagine the tail of one of those attached
          to the chef's hat and you've pretty much got it. The best instant visual I
          can think of for this hat is in Samurai Banners - Mifune wears one in the
          second half of the film. Effingham has a pattern, I believe.

          There is also a tall hat that abbots and other very high officiators wore
          for ceremony. I can only describe it as what a bishop or pope from planet
          Vulcan would wear. (just joking, folks) I don't recommend it unless your
          persona is an abbot and you have all the other proper vestments.

          > For this past event, I just knotted
          > my hair up and tied a linen rag around my head in the way peasants
          > sometimes
          > do in the pictures...But what would be appropriate once I'm actually
          > initiated?
          --------- As a disguise, not a bad idea - monks work the fields, too! You
          may also want to find a large mushroom cap shaped bushel basket you can turn
          into a monk's traveling hat. You can get the real thing from Japan, but it
          is difficult. I have found my bushel basket quite adequate - once I
          installed proper ties. It is a lot of fun at big events like Pennsic! I have
          been know to stand on street corners and beg for alms wearing the hat - I
          either get "Huh?" or "Cool." or "Hey, you look like that monk guy from
          Ninja Scroll!" Best response in either case is to just bow a little. ; -)


          > Alternatively, is there any way a 16th c. Zen monk would NOT have had his
          > head shaved? Are there any particular schools that don't require it, or
          > good reasons not to?
          >
          ----------- No schools per se. However there is a precedent for the zen
          practitioner who has given up on the monastic system and gone "wild" Look up
          Ikkyu - I think he is one very good example - son of the emperor, could have
          been a very powerful political ecclesiastic, but decided it was all bunk. he
          even had a mistress and drank! Today, he is still considered a great zen
          master. Oh, and yes, he had facial and head hair. You can also do the
          hermit thing - study your zen (or Tao) deep in the back mountains where
          shaving is just a stupid waste of water. Hey, who's to say that shaving
          your head isn't an exercise in illusion and distraction by appearances?

          But the bottom line is most monks were shaved. Maybe you could adopt a very
          close hair cut and say you've been unable to shave for a long time due to
          extended pilgrimage?


          > There was a famous Heian Buddhist monk named Kuukai (sky-ocean);
          > would Tenkai (heaven/sky-ocean) be an acceptable (possibly documentable
          > for
          > the heralds) homyo, using an authentic meaning but just changing the
          > words?
          >
          -------- Effingham can answer this best. I would only say that there are
          lots of things that can be turned into homyo. I would just be careful about
          whether you are using Chinese or Japanese pronunciation if you try to
          dissect a name to make a new one. Effingham has pointed out in the past
          that one may also simply be a generic monk from a certain place (I.e.
          Musashi-bo). My own homyo is stolen, something I regret. And I have
          considered using the nickname yaen-bo as an occasional substitute. Suits my
          stupid side. ; -)


          - mokurai-bozu


          P.S. Welcome to the monastery!
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... Mokurai-dono has already given you the hat lowdown.... ... Short or scraggly, even-length hair wasn t uncommon. I wear my hair VERY short (Bruce Willis
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 14, 2001
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            stephen higa wrote:

            > So--
            >
            > I don't particularly want to have to shave my head as a Zen monk. Is there
            > a way to create the illusion? Is there a kind of head-covering I can wear
            > and hide my hair underneath it? A hat? For this past event, I just knotted
            > my hair up and tied a linen rag around my head in the way peasants sometimes
            > do in the pictures...But what would be appropriate once I'm actually
            > initiated?
            >

            Mokurai-dono has already given you the hat lowdown....

            >
            > Alternatively, is there any way a 16th c. Zen monk would NOT have had his
            > head shaved? Are there any particular schools that don't require it, or
            > good reasons not to?

            Short or scraggly, even-length hair wasn't uncommon. I wear my hair VERY short
            (Bruce Willis gave me the idea; when you're loosing your hair, cut it short and
            it's less obvious), and if anything I look like a monk now.

            Don't worry about hair. It's the least dealt-with aspect; few samurai have
            motodori or shave the tops of their heads, few 14th C. English guys have bowl
            cuts, and few Normans shave the back of their heads.

            >
            > Sorry I keep asking these silly questions, but I know that the last thing
            > you honorable gentles would want would be an inaccurate portrayal of a
            > period Japanese person. ;) I'm doing my best. Soon I shall make a trip to
            > the library, but it's worth finding out if anyone knows the answers first.

            Hey, don't worry about it. We love having a chance to help people this way!

            >
            > Health attend you,
            > Nameless Person
            > mumei no hito

            Frustration with Japanese idiosyncrasies: "Nameless" is read "mumyou"... Don't
            ya love it?

            >
            > P.S. There was a famous Heian Buddhist monk named Kuukai (sky-ocean);
            > would Tenkai (heaven/sky-ocean) be an acceptable (possibly documentable for
            > the heralds) homyo, using an authentic meaning but just changing the words?

            I don't see anything wrong with it. Historically, there was a famous monk named
            Tenkai who was appointed to be abbot of Nanko-in by Ieyasu in 1599.


            Effingham
          • Lauren
            ... This brings up a lovely point for me, what do women wear on their heads? I haven t really found much written about this. On a similiar note, I need some
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 14, 2001
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              On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, stephen higa wrote:

              So it comes down to: if you don't want to shave your head, don't;
              having a Zen monk with hair is certainly no more incorrect than all
              those yougn unmarried gaijin women walking around without head
              coverings
               
              This brings up a lovely point for me, what do women wear on their heads?  I haven't really found much written about this.  On a similiar note, I need some info on women's clothing, like how to make it SPECIFICALLY and stuff.  I'm a visual learner so I need diagrams with numbers and explicit directions.  I find this very hard to find.  It's also hard to find pictures of live women (SCA women that is) in there garb to accompany this.  *shrug*  Any and all help is appreciated.
               
              Yukiko
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... The typical response is: Which women? When? Where? And doing what? Effingham
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 14, 2001
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                Lauren wrote:

                > This brings up a lovely point for me, what do women wear on their
                > heads? I haven't really found much written about this. On a similiar
                > note, I need some info on women's clothing, like how to make it
                > SPECIFICALLY and stuff. I'm a visual learner so I need diagrams with
                > numbers and explicit directions. I find this very hard to find. It's
                > also hard to find pictures of live women (SCA women that is) in there
                > garb to accompany this. *shrug* Any and all help is appreciated.

                The typical response is:

                Which women? When? Where? And doing what?


                Effingham
              • stephen higa
                Personally, I wouldn t worry that much (at all?) about having the proper hairstyle if it would impinge on your mundane life - I don t think I ve yet met a
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 14, 2001
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                  Re: [SCA-JML] Shaved head

                    Personally, I wouldn't worry that much (at all?) about having the
                  proper hairstyle if it would impinge on your mundane life - I don't
                  think I've yet met a samurai in the SCA who shaved his head and kept a
                  proper topknot (though I will admit that I did think about it 10 years
                  ago when I was younger and very enthusiastic), and I've been around
                  for 15 years and am a member of what's probably the largest Japanese
                  household in the SCA.
                    So it comes down to: if you don't want to shave your head, don't;
                  having a Zen monk with hair is certainly no more incorrect than all
                  those yougn unmarried gaijin women walking around without head
                  coverings.

                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Unfortunately (fortunately?), I'm known in my SCA group as being an authenticity nut, so I must have an explanation ready for why I don't have such-and-such a hairstyle.  When I recently cut my hair, I was thinking "oh no, now what am I gonna do for peyot (Jewish sidelocks, for my other persona)??"  Well, the simple answer is to wear turbans and say that I tuck them up underneath.  No more doing the 12th c. practice of braiding one's hair, though...

                  Plus, of all the possible personae to be, a Buddhist monk would just look plain wrong with a shaggy head of curly hair. ;)

                  Nameless Person
                  --------------------------------------------------
                  Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                  menhs en cort que de belh saber
                  de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                  hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                  e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                                  --Guiraut Riquier, 1292

                • Stephen Higa
                  ... hee hee :) ... they vary. ... of big, ... remember ... attached ... hmmm, don t remember those... ... in the ... ooh, good. I just might need to take a
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 14, 2001
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                    --- In sca-jml@y..., "Munson, Eric" <eric.munson@r...> wrote:
                    > gassho, mumei-bo,

                    hee hee :)

                    > ------- There are several head coverings for Buddhist clergy, but
                    they vary.
                    > The most common and easiest is the "chef's hat" - looks like a sort
                    of big,
                    > floppy chef's hat or "Renaissance hat" but with a sort of tail -
                    remember
                    > those French Foreign Legion hats? Imagine the tail of one of those
                    attached
                    > to the chef's hat and you've pretty much got it.

                    hmmm, don't remember those...

                    > The best instant visual I
                    > can think of for this hat is in Samurai Banners - Mifune wears one
                    in the
                    > second half of the film. Effingham has a pattern, I believe.

                    ooh, good. I just might need to take a look at that.. :)

                    > There is also a tall hat that abbots and other very high officiators
                    wore
                    > for ceremony. I can only describe it as what a bishop or pope from
                    planet
                    > Vulcan would wear. (just joking, folks) I don't recommend it unless
                    your
                    > persona is an abbot and you have all the other proper vestments.

                    I'm not knowledgeable enough to pull off an abbot. I learned my
                    lesson as a gentile portraying an extremely religious Jewish poet. ;)
                    Hopefully, as a mere monk, I won't be called upon to recite sutras,
                    &c. that often. :)

                    > --------- As a disguise, not a bad idea - monks work the fields,
                    too! You
                    > may also want to find a large mushroom cap shaped bushel basket you
                    can turn
                    > into a monk's traveling hat.

                    Actually, I have one already! I was lucky enough to come across one
                    in a little Japanese hardware store in LA. Unfortunately, (although
                    not noticeable), it's stiched with thin plastic string around the
                    edges.

                    > I have
                    > been know to stand on street corners and beg for alms wearing the
                    hat - I
                    > either get "Huh?" or "Cool." or "Hey, you look like that monk guy
                    from
                    > Ninja Scroll!" Best response in either case is to just bow a little.
                    ; -)

                    Wow! I was actually planning on begging alms, too! Do you have any
                    good stories/advice? :)

                    > ----------- No schools per se. However there is a precedent for the
                    zen
                    > practitioner who has given up on the monastic system and gone "wild"
                    > [snip]
                    > You can also do the
                    > hermit thing - study your zen (or Tao) deep in the back mountains
                    where
                    > shaving is just a stupid waste of water.

                    Now, that's a great idea; I hadn't thought of that...I was planning on
                    wandering from monastery to monastery, though...What would give me an
                    excuse to encounter the encampments of Portuguese (SCA events)? Would
                    I ever have reason to come out of the mountains?

                    > Hey, who's to say that shaving
                    > your head isn't an exercise in illusion and distraction by
                    appearances?

                    GOOD point. ;)

                    > But the bottom line is most monks were shaved. Maybe you could adopt
                    a very
                    > close hair cut and say you've been unable to shave for a long time
                    due to
                    > extended pilgrimage?

                    Well, that could work too. But if I go that far, I might as well go
                    all the way...

                    > -------- Effingham can answer this best. I would only say that there
                    are
                    > lots of things that can be turned into homyo. I would just be
                    careful about
                    > whether you are using Chinese or Japanese pronunciation if you try
                    to
                    > dissect a name to make a new one.

                    That's a good point...I think both of the elements were Japanese,
                    though...could someone who is more knowledgeable than I help me out?

                    > Effingham has pointed out in the past
                    > that one may also simply be a generic monk from a certain place
                    (I.e.
                    > Musashi-bo). My own homyo is stolen, something I regret.

                    Yes, that was my problem with using one already taken...I wouldn't
                    feel "real" if I knew that my name wasn't original and tailored for
                    me.

                    > And I have
                    > considered using the nickname yaen-bo as an occasional substitute.
                    Suits my
                    > stupid side. ; -)

                    Why, dare I ask what "yaen" means?...

                    > P.S. Welcome to the monastery!

                    Thanks! I hope I can eventuall
                  • Stephen Higa
                    ... How short? My hair s short compared to how it used to be, but by normal standards it still can be considered a tad long. ... it short and ... hee hee,
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 14, 2001
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                      --- In sca-jml@y..., "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@i...> wrote:
                      > stephen higa wrote:

                      > Short or scraggly, even-length hair wasn't uncommon.

                      How short? My hair's short compared to how it used to be, but by
                      normal standards it still can be considered a tad long.

                      > (Bruce Willis gave me the idea; when you're loosing your hair, cut
                      it short and
                      > it's less obvious), and if anything I look like a monk now.

                      hee hee, I'll remember that. :)

                      > Don't worry about hair. It's the least dealt-with aspect; few
                      samurai have
                      > motodori or shave the tops of their heads, few 14th C. English guys
                      have bowl
                      > cuts, and few Normans shave the back of their heads.

                      Well, I can't help worrying about it to some extent; I would like to
                      literally look like I just stepped out of a painting. And I like
                      being as authentic as possible... ;)

                      > Hey, don't worry about it. We love having a chance to help people
                      this way!

                      Thanks! :)

                      > > Health attend you,
                      > > Nameless Person
                      > > mumei no hito
                      >
                      > Frustration with Japanese idiosyncrasies: "Nameless" is read
                      "mumyou"... Don't
                      > ya love it?

                      uh-oh...so I should be mumyou no hito?

                      > I don't see anything wrong with it. Historically, there was a famous
                      monk named
                      > Tenkai who was appointed to be abbot of Nanko-in by Ieyasu in 1599.

                      uh-oh again...I don't particularly want the name of a real historical
                      person. I'll keep looking for some another name, then. :( I'm glad
                      it's accurate, though.

                      Name
                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... The chances of coming up with a totally unique name is a fallacy. Historically, there was a limited source of material for creating names, and it was used
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 15, 2001
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                        Stephen Higa wrote:

                        >
                        > > I don't see anything wrong with it. Historically, there was a famous
                        > monk named
                        > > Tenkai who was appointed to be abbot of Nanko-in by Ieyasu in 1599.
                        >
                        > uh-oh again...I don't particularly want the name of a real historical
                        > person. I'll keep looking for some another name, then. :( I'm glad
                        > it's accurate, though.
                        >

                        The chances of coming up with a totally unique name is a fallacy.
                        Historically, there was a limited source of material for creating names,
                        and it was used over and over and over. Given the habit of repeating kanji
                        in certain lines (for example, "nyo" in the lines of Jodo bishops, or "a"
                        or "ami" in Jodo followers, etc.) it's more than likely that MANY people
                        had the same names.

                        Fortunately, Tenkai is more or less unknown outside of a small circle of
                        history junkies. It's not like you wanted to use "Tokimune" or "Ieyasu" or
                        "Yoshitsune" -- all of which are perfectly okay with several possible
                        combinations of kanji, but will immediately make people think of *one*
                        person.

                        Personally, I think you should just go with the perfectly acceptable name
                        of Tenkai, which you rather fortuitously came across by an understandable
                        misreading the meaning of Kuukai. (Kuu *is* the kanji for "sky", yes, but
                        as used here, "kuu" is the word in Japanese for the Buddhist concept of
                        "the void"... Kuukai is "the sea of the void", not "the sea of the sky.")


                        Effingham
                      • stephen higa
                        Fortuitous indeed! Sounds like a plan :) Thanks! Nameless Person ------ TENKAI ... Qu er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers menhs en cort que de belh saber de
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 15, 2001
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                          Fortuitous indeed! Sounds like a plan :) Thanks!

                          Nameless Person ------> TENKAI
                          --------------------------------------------------
                          Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                          menhs en cort que de belh saber
                          de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                          hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                          e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                          --Guiraut Riquier, 1292


                          ----------
                          >From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                          >To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head
                          >Date: Thu, Feb 15, 2001, 8:18 AM
                          >

                          > Stephen Higa wrote:
                          >
                          >>
                          >> > I don't see anything wrong with it. Historically, there was a famous
                          >> monk named
                          >> > Tenkai who was appointed to be abbot of Nanko-in by Ieyasu in 1599.
                          >>
                          >> uh-oh again...I don't particularly want the name of a real historical
                          >> person. I'll keep looking for some another name, then. :( I'm glad
                          >> it's accurate, though.
                          >>
                          >
                          > The chances of coming up with a totally unique name is a fallacy.
                          > Historically, there was a limited source of material for creating names,
                          > and it was used over and over and over. Given the habit of repeating kanji
                          > in certain lines (for example, "nyo" in the lines of Jodo bishops, or "a"
                          > or "ami" in Jodo followers, etc.) it's more than likely that MANY people
                          > had the same names.
                          >
                          > Fortunately, Tenkai is more or less unknown outside of a small circle of
                          > history junkies. It's not like you wanted to use "Tokimune" or "Ieyasu" or
                          > "Yoshitsune" -- all of which are perfectly okay with several possible
                          > combinations of kanji, but will immediately make people think of *one*
                          > person.
                          >
                          > Personally, I think you should just go with the perfectly acceptable name
                          > of Tenkai, which you rather fortuitously came across by an understandable
                          > misreading the meaning of Kuukai. (Kuu *is* the kanji for "sky", yes, but
                          > as used here, "kuu" is the word in Japanese for the Buddhist concept of
                          > "the void"... Kuukai is "the sea of the void", not "the sea of the sky.")
                          >
                          >
                          > Effingham
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          >
                        • Munson, Eric
                          ... -- well, stop me if you ve heard this one, but any good monk should know a sutra or two. (note that yours truly is NOT a good monk ; -)~ ) A goodly part
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 16, 2001
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                            > ----------
                            > From: Stephen Higa
                            >
                            > I'm not knowledgeable enough to pull off an abbot. I learned my
                            > lesson as a gentile portraying an extremely religious Jewish poet. ;)
                            > Hopefully, as a mere monk, I won't be called upon to recite sutras,
                            > &c. that often. :)
                            >
                            -- well, stop me if you've heard this one, but any good monk should know a
                            sutra or two. (note that yours truly is NOT a good monk ; -)~ )
                            A goodly part of your day at the monastery is spent reciting them. in the
                            world, you will often be asked to recite one for someone who is ill, near
                            death, or beset by demons. People will sometimes commission you to copy one
                            for the merit it will bring them. Both these interactions are the basis of
                            some really great stories!
                            of course, you could say you are of the Jodo sect and just recite "Namu
                            Amida Butsu." for people. I often do this as a quickie even though it is not
                            my persona's sect.


                            > Actually, I have one already! I was lucky enough to come across one
                            > in a little Japanese hardware store in LA. Unfortunately, (although
                            > not noticeable), it's stiched with thin plastic string around the
                            > edges.
                            >
                            ---------- What!?! What's it look like? Got a pic? How much?

                            > I was actually planning on begging alms, too! Do you have any
                            > good stories/advice? :)
                            >
                            ------- no really good stories although I did once have a couple grovel at
                            my feet (literally) once and ask for my blessing. I immediately plopped
                            myself down in the dirt in front of them and asked them why they were
                            behaving so oddly - debasing themselves before a simple monk. In the end, I
                            did give them a blessing, for whatever that's worth.

                            As for doing alms in SCA... a. Make sure the autocrat is ok with it. b. Make
                            no allusions to real religion or try to "preach" (not how your persona would
                            do it anyway) SCA is non-profit, non-political, non-dogma, etc. Just be
                            sensitive to those around you. c. if you get any money - give it to a
                            charity or the group hosting the event, charity, etc.
                            d. For persona play, there really isn't much to it. You just kinda stand
                            there very sincere-looking and silent. I don't over-do the silent aspect. if
                            someone asks me a serious, sincere question, I will answer. The hat helps
                            the effect.


                            > Now, that's a great idea; I hadn't thought of that...I was planning on
                            > wandering from monastery to monastery, though...What would give me an
                            > excuse to encounter the encampments of Portuguese (SCA events)? Would
                            > I ever have reason to come out of the mountains?
                            >
                            ------ I can think of lots of reasons. Family problems, maybe you work in
                            town doing "good deeds" or gathering alms, maybe your family has allotted
                            you a small piece of paddy to grow rice for yourself (hard to grow rice on a
                            mountain), maybe you just go on pilgrimage to your old home temple or visit
                            the many important sacred sites - that could take a lifetime. If you want to
                            do the hermit thing, you may want to study "sennin" the Taoist mystics of
                            Japan. Or the Yamabushi (shingon sect)

                            For Portuguese, the place to be is Nagasaki, I think.



                            > Well, that could work too. But if I go that far, I might as well go
                            > all the way...
                            >
                            -- go for it! Just make sure you do it often enough to build up a tan!


                            > Why, dare I ask what "yaen" means?...
                            >
                            ----- "wild monkey" Hey, I like monkeys. And there's the old "monkey mind"
                            metaphor which I resemble all too often!

                            > > P.S. Welcome to the monastery!
                            >
                            > Thanks! I hope I can eventuall
                            >
                            ------ our numbers are growing!

                            - mokurai-bozu
                          • stephen higa
                            ... In fact, I just discovered this today when reading some Medieval Japanese Buddhist tales. Apparently, I should know the Lotus Sutra, and are there any
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 16, 2001
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                              >> I'm not knowledgeable enough to pull off an abbot. I learned my
                              >> lesson as a gentile portraying an extremely religious Jewish poet. ;)
                              >> Hopefully, as a mere monk, I won't be called upon to recite sutras,
                              >> &c. that often. :)
                              >>
                              > -- well, stop me if you've heard this one, but any good monk should know a
                              > sutra or two. (note that yours truly is NOT a good monk ; -)~ )

                              In fact, I just discovered this today when reading some Medieval Japanese
                              Buddhist tales. Apparently, I should know the Lotus Sutra, and are there
                              any particular ones emphasized in Zen? Heart Sutra? Diamond Sutra?

                              > A goodly part of your day at the monastery is spent reciting them. in the
                              > world, you will often be asked to recite one for someone who is ill, near
                              > death, or beset by demons. People will sometimes commission you to copy one
                              > for the merit it will bring them. Both these interactions are the basis of
                              > some really great stories!

                              Yes, I came across some great ones that I'm going to tell at an event
                              sometime... :)

                              > of course, you could say you are of the Jodo sect and just recite "Namu
                              > Amida Butsu." for people. I often do this as a quickie even though it is not
                              > my persona's sect.

                              So people actually ask you to recite them??

                              >> Actually, I have one already! I was lucky enough to come across one
                              >> in a little Japanese hardware store in LA. Unfortunately, (although
                              >> not noticeable), it's stiched with thin plastic string around the
                              >> edges.
                              >>
                              > ---------- What!?! What's it look like? Got a pic? How much?

                              It was $20, I think, and I have attached a pic of me in my Ren Faire garb.
                              Mind you, this garb was put together at the last minute, so forgive any
                              inaccuracies. ;) And ignore my hair; I usually have it tied up underneath
                              the rag. BTW--I wasn't portraying a monk then, just a generic commoner,
                              perhaps (as per my apron-thingy) a salted fish seller.

                              >> I was actually planning on begging alms, too! Do you have any
                              >> good stories/advice? :)
                              >>
                              > ------- no really good stories although I did once have a couple grovel at
                              > my feet (literally) once and ask for my blessing. I immediately plopped
                              > myself down in the dirt in front of them and asked them why they were
                              > behaving so oddly - debasing themselves before a simple monk. In the end, I
                              > did give them a blessing, for whatever that's worth.

                              Oh, I'll remember to do that, too...In case someone grovels at my feet, too.
                              ;)

                              > As for doing alms in SCA... a. Make sure the autocrat is ok with it. b. Make
                              > no allusions to real religion or try to "preach" (not how your persona would
                              > do it anyway) SCA is non-profit, non-political, non-dogma, etc. Just be
                              > sensitive to those around you. c. if you get any money - give it to a
                              > charity or the group hosting the event, charity, etc.

                              Thank you VERY much for this advice. i will take it. Oh, what do you mean
                              by "allusions to real religion"? Oh--do I have a begging bowl, or just
                              stand there and hope people know I'm asking for alms? Do I extend my hand?

                              > d. For persona play, there really isn't much to it. You just kinda stand
                              > there very sincere-looking and silent. I don't over-do the silent aspect. if
                              > someone asks me a serious, sincere question, I will answer. The hat helps
                              > the effect.

                              Okay. What kind of questions should I be prepared to answer?

                              > ------ I can think of lots of reasons. Family problems, maybe you work in
                              > town doing "good deeds" or gathering alms, maybe your family has allotted
                              > you a small piece of paddy to grow rice for yourself (hard to grow rice on a
                              > mountain), maybe you just go on pilgrimage to your old home temple or visit
                              > the many important sacred sites - that could take a lifetime.

                              I like this last one, that I'm on pilgrimage. Time to do research for
                              special things I have to have, now. Or can you tell me?

                              > If you want to
                              > do the hermit thing, you may want to study "sennin" the Taoist mystics of
                              > Japan. Or the Yamabushi (shingon sect)
                              >
                              > For Portuguese, the place to be is Nagasaki, I think.

                              Okay. I'll just have to keep coming back to Nagasaki, then. I can never
                              get away from those Portuguese!

                              > ----- "wild monkey" Hey, I like monkeys. And there's the old "monkey mind"
                              > metaphor which I resemble all too often!

                              Uh-oh, my old roommate had an obsession with monkeys, always calling himself
                              and others "monkee." That's his e-mail address, too. Apparently, his
                              family was overjoyed that he was born in the year of the Monkey, and
                              therefore always had that imagery around him (he's Chinese). :)


                              Nameless Person (again; THIS is becoming my homyo...=P)
                              --Lady Solveig has informed me that I should choose a specific Zen sect and
                              go by their naming practices..."Tenkai" apparently referred to Tendai, his
                              sect...How complicated!
                              --------------------------------------------------------
                              "People of such refinement submit to nature and befriend the four seasons.
                              Where they look is nothing but flowers, what they think is nothing but the
                              moon. Perceiving shapes other than flowers amounts to being a barbarian.
                              Holding thoughts other than the moon is akin to being a beast."

                              --Matsuo Basho (1644-1694)
                            • Munson, Eric
                              ... and all that. That s why the namu amida butsu thing is so handy. Or as Kuji-dono says, Obi-Wan- Ken-obi is an excellent chant before going into battle. I
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 16, 2001
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                                > ----------
                                > From: stephen higa
                                > In fact, I just discovered this today when reading some Medieval Japanese
                                > Buddhist tales. Apparently, I should know the Lotus Sutra, and are there
                                > any particular ones emphasized in Zen? Heart Sutra? Diamond Sutra?
                                >
                                ---- Diamond is import ant to Rinzai, I think. But don't quote me.


                                > So people actually ask you to recite them??
                                ------ oh, not really, not yet anyway. The do ask for the generic "blessing"
                                and all that. That's why the namu amida butsu thing is so handy. Or as
                                Kuji-dono says, "Obi-Wan- Ken-obi" is an excellent chant before going into
                                battle. I have been meaning to learn a few lines of the lotus sutra, of
                                course, you can just chant it's name if you're Nichiren sect. I mentioned
                                the sutra reciting as an important/fun cultural thing to read about.

                                > It was $20, I think, and I have attached a pic of me in my Ren Faire garb.
                                > Mind you, this garb was put together at the last minute, so forgive any
                                > inaccuracies. ;) And ignore my hair; I usually have it tied up underneath
                                > the rag. BTW--I wasn't portraying a monk then, just a generic commoner,
                                > perhaps (as per my apron-thingy) a salted fish seller.
                                >
                                ------ I'd say you definitely look like a salted fish seller. ; -)
                                However, this is not the type of hat monks wear. I used to have a GIF on my
                                old site, but well... OK - you can see what I mean in many books, many
                                issues of Tricycle magazine, in the films Kagemusha, and the Mifune Miyamoto
                                Musashi trilogy. Still, your hat is just the sort of thing many of our
                                bushi friends could use.


                                > > As for doing alms in SCA... a. Make sure the autocrat is ok with it. b.
                                > Make
                                > > no allusions to real religion or try to "preach" (not how your persona
                                > would
                                > > do it anyway) SCA is non-profit, non-political, non-dogma, etc. Just be
                                > > sensitive to those around you. c. if you get any money - give it to a
                                > > charity or the group hosting the event, charity, etc.
                                >
                                > Thank you VERY much for this advice. i will take it. Oh, what do you
                                > mean
                                > by "allusions to real religion"?
                                ------------- I mean if people start asking you if you are a "Buddhist
                                missionary" or something equally silly, say "no". If you get into a
                                conversation, make sure they realize you are doing persona play and are not
                                a real monk or anything. That's all. I tend to harp on this because I was a
                                chatelaine and am now a seneschal some legaleeze/PR stuff is always in the
                                back of my mind.

                                > Oh--do I have a begging bowl, or just
                                > stand there and hope people know I'm asking for alms? Do I extend my
                                > hand?
                                >
                                --------- Stand perfectly still with your arm bent at the elbow holding out
                                the bowl - be comfortable, you'll be like that for a while. The bowl should
                                be a small one - able to fit in one hand and stuff into your kosode when you
                                walk. if you're "hard core" it's the same bowl you eat out of. (My lady gets
                                upset when I do this) Don't push the bowl in people's faces, just stand
                                there. Now, I suppose you could do alms rounds to merchants or people's camp
                                sites, but again, make sure they know it's persona play if they seem touchy
                                about a beggar coming into their place. read "The training of a Zen Buddhist
                                Monk" by Daisetz Suzuki - modern but all true to tradition.

                                > > d. For persona play, there really isn't much to it. You just kinda stand
                                > > there very sincere-looking and silent. I don't over-do the silent
                                > aspect. if
                                > > someone asks me a serious, sincere question, I will answer. The hat
                                > helps
                                > > the effect.
                                >
                                > Okay. What kind of questions should I be prepared to answer?
                                >
                                -------- Ka!

                                > Time to do research for
                                > special things I have to have, now. Or can you tell me?
                                >
                                ------ "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek instead
                                what they sought." - Lao Tzu (or not-so-wise in this case!)
                                The basic thing is getting the "uniform" right. I defer to our garb experts.
                                Or private e-mail.


                                > "People of such refinement submit to nature and befriend the four seasons.
                                > Where they look is nothing but flowers, what they think is nothing but the
                                > moon. Perceiving shapes other than flowers amounts to being a barbarian.
                                > Holding thoughts other than the moon is akin to being a beast."
                                >
                                > --Matsuo Basho
                                > (1644-1694)
                                >
                                ----- Basho is simply amazing. There's a great book out of Japanese death
                                Poems, BTW.

                                - mokurai-bozu
                              • Barbara Nostrand
                                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! If you wish to follow Dogen, then here is his attitude: We should perhaps consider this as his inheritance of the Tendai
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 16, 2001
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                                  Noble Cousin!

                                  Greetings from Solveig! If you wish to follow Dogen, then here is
                                  his attitude:

                                  "We should perhaps consider this as his inheritance of the
                                  Tendai teaching that the Lotus Sutra alone is the truth and
                                  all others are erely 'skillful means.'"

                                  Aishin Imaeda
                                  in SHapers of Japanese Buddhism
                                  Ed. Koyu Sonoda

                                  Actually, the Lotus Sutra forms the basis for several Buddhist sects
                                  in Japan. The Nichiren sects focus on one pair of chapters while other
                                  sects focus on other chapters. The Lotus Sutra is one of the most
                                  important Sutras in Japan and is the one that you should start with.
                                  I think that there are some less other sects that use something called
                                  Hanyashingyo, but please do not quote me on this as I did not verify it.

                                  Incidentally, Dogen de-emphasized koan which had become abused in
                                  Rinzaishu (the other big Zen movement in Japan). Basically, there
                                  were underground handbooks which gave the "answers" for koan.

                                  Your Humble Servant
                                  Solveig Throndardottir
                                  Amateur Scholar
                                  --
                                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM |
                                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                  | Ignored domains: bestbiz.net, pop.net, hotmail.com, aibusiness.com |
                                  | vdi.net, usa.net, tpnet.pl, myremarq.com |
                                  | netscape.net, excite.com, bigfoot.com, public.com |
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                                  | mailcity.com, net.tw, twac.com, netcenter.com |
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                                  +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
                                • stephen higa
                                  ... Ok. So it seems that Rinzai is the most famous Zen sect (everyone keeps mentioning it)? I ll belong to that one then, for ease of research. ... I ll take
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 18, 2001
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                                    > ---- Diamond is import ant to Rinzai, I think. But don't quote me.

                                    Ok. So it seems that Rinzai is the most famous Zen sect (everyone keeps
                                    mentioning it)? I'll belong to that one then, for ease of research.

                                    >> So people actually ask you to recite them??
                                    > ------ oh, not really, not yet anyway. The do ask for the generic "blessing"
                                    > and all that. That's why the namu amida butsu thing is so handy. Or as
                                    > Kuji-dono says, "Obi-Wan- Ken-obi" is an excellent chant before going into
                                    > battle.

                                    I'll take your word on that one ;)

                                    > ------ I'd say you definitely look like a salted fish seller. ; -)
                                    > However, this is not the type of hat monks wear. I used to have a GIF on my
                                    > old site, but well... OK - you can see what I mean in many books, many
                                    > issues of Tricycle magazine, in the films Kagemusha, and the Mifune Miyamoto
                                    > Musashi trilogy. Still, your hat is just the sort of thing many of our
                                    > bushi friends could use.

                                    Oh, rats. sorry for getting you all excited ;). I think I know what you
                                    mean now--The big, deep basket hats that cover most of the face, that you
                                    see shakuhachi players wearing in the pictures? I went to the library
                                    yesterday, and in some Japanese art books I saw some women in OOP ukiyo-e
                                    wearing them. I've also seen that (famous?) photo of the shakuhachi player
                                    wearing one...

                                    > ------------- I mean if people start asking you if you are a "Buddhist
                                    > missionary" or something equally silly, say "no". If you get into a
                                    > conversation, make sure they realize you are doing persona play and are not
                                    > a real monk or anything.

                                    How does one do this? I have similar problems when I'm being very
                                    "puritanical" as a devout Jew (ironic, huh? ;))...people don't realize that
                                    it's persona play. On the other hand, would it be doing a very good job of
                                    "being in persona" if it were obvious i were doing it?

                                    > That's all. I tend to harp on this because I was a
                                    > chatelaine and am now a seneschal some legaleeze/PR stuff is always in the
                                    > back of my mind.

                                    That's good. it's always good to know the limitations. :)

                                    > --------- Stand perfectly still with your arm bent at the elbow holding out
                                    > the bowl - be comfortable, you'll be like that for a while. The bowl should
                                    > be a small one - able to fit in one hand and stuff into your kosode when you
                                    > walk. if you're "hard core" it's the same bowl you eat out of. (My lady gets
                                    > upset when I do this) Don't push the bowl in people's faces, just stand
                                    > there.

                                    Will do. THanks!

                                    > Now, I suppose you could do alms rounds to merchants or people's camp
                                    > sites, but again, make sure they know it's persona play if they seem touchy
                                    > about a beggar coming into their place.

                                    hmm...again, how do I make it obvious that it's persona play?

                                    > read "The training of a Zen Buddhist
                                    > Monk" by Daisetz Suzuki - modern but all true to tradition.

                                    Ooh...okay.

                                    >> Okay. What kind of questions should I be prepared to answer?
                                    >>
                                    > -------- Ka!

                                    Is this an inside joke, or do you mean like
                                    "--------?" as in ANY question?...

                                    >> Time to do research for
                                    >> special things I have to have, now. Or can you tell me?
                                    >>
                                    > ------ "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek instead
                                    > what they sought." - Lao Tzu (or not-so-wise in this case!)

                                    Hai. I will follow the parable of the finger and the moon.

                                    > The basic thing is getting the "uniform" right. I defer to our garb experts.
                                    > Or private e-mail.

                                    I just need to see more pictures and all, I guess. They just seem so hard
                                    to find, in the library, on-line, &c. Any good books I should look
                                    specifically for? Anybody have any good pics of themselves in monk garb?
                                    There's a really cool pic on the SCA-China egroup "Files" of a guy in
                                    ceremonial robes...absolutely amazing.

                                    >> "People of such refinement submit to nature and befriend the four seasons.
                                    >> Where they look is nothing but flowers, what they think is nothing but the
                                    >> moon. Perceiving shapes other than flowers amounts to being a barbarian.
                                    >> Holding thoughts other than the moon is akin to being a beast."
                                    >>
                                    >> --Matsuo Basho
                                    >> (1644-1694)
                                    >>
                                    > ----- Basho is simply amazing. There's a great book out of Japanese death
                                    > Poems, BTW.

                                    Yes, I LOVE him. He's what inspired me to choose a wandering
                                    poet-monk...Too bad he's OOP :(


                                    Nameless Person
                                    ------------------------------------------------------
                                    Only a voice,
                                    A dim voice whispers where the shadow of a man
                                    Visibly lay, but when I looked
                                    It had vanished--
                                    This flickering form...
                                    Like haze over the fields.

                                    --Seami Motokiyo (1363-1444)
                                  • stephen higa
                                    ... Will do. hmm...do you think I should memorize it in English, or Japanese? ... REALLY? wow...that defeats the purpose. Health attend you, Nameless Person
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 18, 2001
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                                      > Actually, the Lotus Sutra forms the basis for several Buddhist sects
                                      > in Japan. The Nichiren sects focus on one pair of chapters while other
                                      > sects focus on other chapters. The Lotus Sutra is one of the most
                                      > important Sutras in Japan and is the one that you should start with.

                                      Will do. hmm...do you think I should memorize it in English, or Japanese?

                                      > Incidentally, Dogen de-emphasized koan which had become abused in
                                      > Rinzaishu (the other big Zen movement in Japan). Basically, there
                                      > were underground handbooks which gave the "answers" for koan.

                                      REALLY? wow...that defeats the purpose.

                                      Health attend you,
                                      Nameless Person
                                      --------------------------------------------------------
                                      You light the fire;
                                      I¹ll show you something nice--
                                      A great ball of snow!


                                      --Matsuo Basho
                                    • Munson, Eric
                                      ... sects since they are still active and there oh so many books on zen these days as well as many on _Zen_. My persona was trained at a Soto monastery, but
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 22, 2001
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                                        > ----------
                                        > From: stephen higa
                                        > Ok. So it seems that Rinzai is the most famous Zen sect (everyone keeps
                                        > mentioning it)? I'll belong to that one then, for ease of research.
                                        ------ not necessarily a must. ease of research is not an issue with these
                                        sects since they are still active and there oh so many books on zen these
                                        days as well as many on _Zen_. My persona was trained at a Soto monastery,
                                        but later traveled to meet other masters of several disciplines including
                                        Rinzai - this was not an uncommon practice.

                                        > Oh, rats. sorry for getting you all excited ;). I think I know what you
                                        > mean now--The big, deep basket hats that cover most of the face, that you
                                        > see shakuhachi players wearing in the pictures? I went to the library
                                        > yesterday, and in some Japanese art books I saw some women in OOP ukiyo-e
                                        > wearing them. I've also seen that (famous?) photo of the shakuhachi
                                        > player
                                        > wearing one...
                                        -------- Nope. The Komuso "basket head" thing is different and very late if
                                        not totally post period. That is, I am not sure if the Komuso sect is
                                        period. I do know people who have done Komuso and it does look cool as you
                                        wander the marketplace. However, I have never found any references to them
                                        that were not Edo. (but then I haven't been looking either)
                                        Dang it. I _have_ to find a picture of the type of hat I mean. It's like an
                                        inverted rice bowl big enough to hide at least the top half of your face.

                                        > when I'm being very
                                        > "puritanical" as a devout Jew (ironic, huh? ;))...people don't realize
                                        > that
                                        > it's persona play. On the other hand, would it be doing a very good job
                                        > of
                                        > "being in persona" if it were obvious i were doing it?
                                        ------- There's no real set answer. It's just knowing when to quit if
                                        someone is getting weird with you. Go do your thing and have fun.


                                        > > -------- Ka!
                                        >
                                        > Is this an inside joke, or do you mean like
                                        > "--------?" as in ANY question?...
                                        --------- Get back to your mat! Sit down and shut up! Breathe! What was your
                                        face before your mother was born? [Mokurai shakes his kyosaku stick.]


                                        > I just need to see more pictures and all, I guess. They just seem so hard
                                        > to find, in the library, on-line, &c. Any good books I should look
                                        > specifically for? Anybody have any good pics of themselves in monk garb?
                                        > There's a really cool pic on the SCA-China egroup "Files" of a guy in
                                        > ceremonial robes...absolutely amazing.
                                        --------- Hmmm... yes, it can be overwhelming. Let me think about the book
                                        thing. Sounds like I need to do a bibliography. I am curious myself about
                                        the photos. Anyone out there?

                                        As for the garb, I can describe to you what I use. It is probably wrong on
                                        some levels, but as far as I can tell, it is a decent impression of the
                                        basic zen uniform which changed almost not at all up until modern times.
                                        There are subtle differences depending on sect, but I have yet to worry
                                        about that.
                                        However, Essentially - white, tan or gray kosode, black transparent silk
                                        monk's robe, stuffed obi (sash), kesa - the true vestment, a sort of
                                        apron/toga thing depending on size, style, rank of the wearer, etc.(I tend
                                        to wear the Rakusu - a mini version for while you're working or traveling),
                                        waraji, mala (Buddhist rosary), bowl, plain cloth bag for carrying stuff,
                                        hat.

                                        Here's a good glossary I just found...
                                        http://barbaria.com/god/philosophy/zen/glossary.htm#k




                                        > > ----- Basho is simply amazing. There's a great book out of Japanese
                                        > death
                                        > > Poems, BTW.
                                        >
                                        > Yes, I LOVE him. He's what inspired me to choose a wandering
                                        > poet-monk...Too bad he's OOP :(
                                        >
                                        ------- maybe you were one of the little-known poet-monks who's writings
                                        inspired him, neh?

                                        - mokurai-bozu
                                      • stephen higa
                                        ... Well, yeah, all the pictures I found were Edo ukiyo-e. ... hmm...well, eventually I ll find a pic, I guess. ... Hai! (*ouch*) ... Thanks! ... Yes! thank
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 22, 2001
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                                          > -------- Nope. The Komuso "basket head" thing is different and very late if
                                          > not totally post period. That is, I am not sure if the Komuso sect is
                                          > period. I do know people who have done Komuso and it does look cool as you
                                          > wander the marketplace. However, I have never found any references to them
                                          > that were not Edo. (but then I haven't been looking either)

                                          Well, yeah, all the pictures I found were Edo ukiyo-e.

                                          > Dang it. I _have_ to find a picture of the type of hat I mean. It's like an
                                          > inverted rice bowl big enough to hide at least the top half of your face.

                                          hmm...well, eventually I'll find a pic, I guess.

                                          >> > -------- Ka!
                                          >>
                                          >> Is this an inside joke, or do you mean like
                                          >> "--------?" as in ANY question?...
                                          > --------- Get back to your mat! Sit down and shut up! Breathe! What was your
                                          > face before your mother was born? [Mokurai shakes his kyosaku stick.]

                                          Hai! (*ouch*)

                                          > --------- Hmmm... yes, it can be overwhelming. Let me think about the book
                                          > thing. Sounds like I need to do a bibliography. I am curious myself about
                                          > the photos. Anyone out there?

                                          Thanks!

                                          > However, Essentially - white, tan or gray kosode, black transparent silk
                                          > monk's robe, stuffed obi (sash), kesa - the true vestment, a sort of
                                          > apron/toga thing depending on size, style, rank of the wearer, etc.(I tend
                                          > to wear the Rakusu - a mini version for while you're working or traveling),
                                          > waraji, mala (Buddhist rosary), bowl, plain cloth bag for carrying stuff,
                                          > hat.

                                          Yes! thank you so very much! Now I know where to start, finally. :)

                                          > Here's a good glossary I just found...
                                          > http://barbaria.com/god/philosophy/zen/glossary.htm#k

                                          Ooh, that's great.

                                          Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it all.

                                          Nameless Person
                                          --------------------------------------------------
                                          Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                                          menhs en cort que de belh saber
                                          de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                                          hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                                          e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                                          --Guiraut Riquier, 1292
                                        • Munson, Eric
                                          gassho to you, Tenkai-bozu, I have found in my files an image of zen monk standing on a Tokyo street. BTW, you have inspired me to try to work up a
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 23, 2001
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            gassho to you, Tenkai-bozu,

                                            I have found in my files an image of zen monk standing on a Tokyo street.
                                            BTW, you have inspired me to try to work up a paper/handout on the subject
                                            of portraying a Buddhist monk in the SCA. Just so you know it will all be
                                            your fault. ; -)
                                            Oh, that is, unless someone already has, in which case, please share!

                                            - mokurai-bozu

                                            <<MONK.GIF>>



                                            > ----------
                                            > From: stephen higa
                                            > Reply To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:41 AM
                                            > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > -------- Nope. The Komuso "basket head" thing is different and very late
                                            > if
                                            > > not totally post period. That is, I am not sure if the Komuso sect is
                                            > > period. I do know people who have done Komuso and it does look cool as
                                            > you
                                            > > wander the marketplace. However, I have never found any references to
                                            > them
                                            > > that were not Edo. (but then I haven't been looking either)
                                            >
                                            > Well, yeah, all the pictures I found were Edo ukiyo-e.
                                            >
                                            > > Dang it. I _have_ to find a picture of the type of hat I mean. It's like
                                            > an
                                            > > inverted rice bowl big enough to hide at least the top half of your
                                            > face.
                                            >
                                            > hmm...well, eventually I'll find a pic, I guess.
                                            >
                                            > >> > -------- Ka!
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Is this an inside joke, or do you mean like
                                            > >> "--------?" as in ANY question?...
                                            > > --------- Get back to your mat! Sit down and shut up! Breathe! What was
                                            > your
                                            > > face before your mother was born? [Mokurai shakes his kyosaku stick.]
                                            >
                                            > Hai! (*ouch*)
                                            >
                                            > > --------- Hmmm... yes, it can be overwhelming. Let me think about the
                                            > book
                                            > > thing. Sounds like I need to do a bibliography. I am curious myself
                                            > about
                                            > > the photos. Anyone out there?
                                            >
                                            > Thanks!
                                            >
                                            > > However, Essentially - white, tan or gray kosode, black transparent silk
                                            > > monk's robe, stuffed obi (sash), kesa - the true vestment, a sort of
                                            > > apron/toga thing depending on size, style, rank of the wearer, etc.(I
                                            > tend
                                            > > to wear the Rakusu - a mini version for while you're working or
                                            > traveling),
                                            > > waraji, mala (Buddhist rosary), bowl, plain cloth bag for carrying
                                            > stuff,
                                            > > hat.
                                            >
                                            > Yes! thank you so very much! Now I know where to start, finally. :)
                                            >
                                            > > Here's a good glossary I just found...
                                            > > http://barbaria.com/god/philosophy/zen/glossary.htm#k
                                            >
                                            > Ooh, that's great.
                                            >
                                            > Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it all.
                                            >
                                            > Nameless Person
                                            > --------------------------------------------------
                                            > Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                                            > menhs en cort que de belh saber
                                            > de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                                            > hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                                            > e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.
                                            >
                                            > --Guiraut Riquier, 1292
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                                            >
                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • goliath@globetrotter.net
                                            Konnichi Wah Mokurai-bozu! I m sure Tatjima-bo will be very interrested to read your work! ;-) Ja mata Fukushima Masanari Hanzo ... street. ... subject ... all
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 23, 2001
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Konnichi Wah Mokurai-bozu!

                                              I'm sure Tatjima-bo will be very interrested to read your work! ;-)

                                              Ja'mata
                                              Fukushima Masanari Hanzo



                                              --- In sca-jml@y..., "Munson, Eric" <eric.munson@r...> wrote:
                                              > gassho to you, Tenkai-bozu,
                                              >
                                              > I have found in my files an image of zen monk standing on a Tokyo
                                              street.
                                              > BTW, you have inspired me to try to work up a paper/handout on the
                                              subject
                                              > of portraying a Buddhist monk in the SCA. Just so you know it will
                                              all be
                                              > your fault. ; -)
                                              > Oh, that is, unless someone already has, in which case, please
                                              share!
                                              >
                                              > - mokurai-bozu
                                              >
                                              > <<MONK.GIF>>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > ----------
                                              > > From: stephen higa
                                              > > Reply To: sca-jml@y...
                                              > > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:41 AM
                                              > > To: sca-jml@y...
                                              > > Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > > -------- Nope. The Komuso "basket head" thing is different and
                                              very late
                                              > > if
                                              > > > not totally post period. That is, I am not sure if the Komuso
                                              sect is
                                              > > > period. I do know people who have done Komuso and it does look
                                              cool as
                                              > > you
                                              > > > wander the marketplace. However, I have never found any
                                              references to
                                              > > them
                                              > > > that were not Edo. (but then I haven't been looking either)
                                              > >
                                              > > Well, yeah, all the pictures I found were Edo ukiyo-e.
                                              > >
                                              > > > Dang it. I _have_ to find a picture of the type of hat I mean.
                                              It's like
                                              > > an
                                              > > > inverted rice bowl big enough to hide at least the top half of
                                              your
                                              > > face.
                                              > >
                                              > > hmm...well, eventually I'll find a pic, I guess.
                                              > >
                                              > > >> > -------- Ka!
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Is this an inside joke, or do you mean like
                                              > > >> "--------?" as in ANY question?...
                                              > > > --------- Get back to your mat! Sit down and shut up! Breathe!
                                              What was
                                              > > your
                                              > > > face before your mother was born? [Mokurai shakes his kyosaku
                                              stick.]
                                              > >
                                              > > Hai! (*ouch*)
                                              > >
                                              > > > --------- Hmmm... yes, it can be overwhelming. Let me think
                                              about the
                                              > > book
                                              > > > thing. Sounds like I need to do a bibliography. I am curious
                                              myself
                                              > > about
                                              > > > the photos. Anyone out there?
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks!
                                              > >
                                              > > > However, Essentially - white, tan or gray kosode, black
                                              transparent silk
                                              > > > monk's robe, stuffed obi (sash), kesa - the true vestment, a
                                              sort of
                                              > > > apron/toga thing depending on size, style, rank of the wearer,
                                              etc.(I
                                              > > tend
                                              > > > to wear the Rakusu - a mini version for while you're working or
                                              > > traveling),
                                              > > > waraji, mala (Buddhist rosary), bowl, plain cloth bag for
                                              carrying
                                              > > stuff,
                                              > > > hat.
                                              > >
                                              > > Yes! thank you so very much! Now I know where to start,
                                              finally. :)
                                              > >
                                              > > > Here's a good glossary I just found...
                                              > > > http://barbaria.com/god/philosophy/zen/glossary.htm#k
                                              > >
                                              > > Ooh, that's great.
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it all.
                                              > >
                                              > > Nameless Person
                                              > > --------------------------------------------------
                                              > > Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                                              > > menhs en cort que de belh saber
                                              > > de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                                              > > hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                                              > > e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.
                                              > >
                                              > > --Guiraut Riquier, 1292
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@e...
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                            • stephen higa
                                              AHHHH!! Doomo arigatoo gozaimasu!! So the search commences! :) ... Uh-oh, I feel so guilty. I can t wait to read it! Health attend you, Tenkai-bozu (almost
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Feb 24, 2001
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                AHHHH!! Doomo arigatoo gozaimasu!! So the search commences! :)

                                                > BTW, you have inspired me to try to work up a paper/handout on the subject
                                                > of portraying a Buddhist monk in the SCA. Just so you know it will all be
                                                > your fault. ; -)

                                                Uh-oh, I feel so guilty. I can't wait to read it!

                                                Health attend you,
                                                Tenkai-bozu (almost wrote "bozo" ;))
                                                --------------------------------------------------
                                                Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                                                menhs en cort que de belh saber
                                                de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                                                hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                                                e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                                                --Guiraut Riquier, 1292


                                                ----------
                                                >From: "Munson, Eric" <eric.munson@...>
                                                >To: "'sca-jml@yahoogroups.com'" <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                                                >Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head
                                                >Date: Fri, Feb 23, 2001, 11:21 AM
                                                >

                                                > gassho to you, Tenkai-bozu,
                                                >
                                                > I have found in my files an image of zen monk standing on a Tokyo street.
                                                > Oh, that is, unless someone already has, in which case, please share!
                                                >
                                                > - mokurai-bozu
                                                >
                                                > <<MONK.GIF>>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >> ----------
                                                >> From: stephen higa
                                                >> Reply To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                                >> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:41 AM
                                                >> To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                                >> Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> > -------- Nope. The Komuso "basket head" thing is different and very late
                                                >> if
                                                >> > not totally post period. That is, I am not sure if the Komuso sect is
                                                >> > period. I do know people who have done Komuso and it does look cool as
                                                >> you
                                                >> > wander the marketplace. However, I have never found any references to
                                                >> them
                                                >> > that were not Edo. (but then I haven't been looking either)
                                                >>
                                                >> Well, yeah, all the pictures I found were Edo ukiyo-e.
                                                >>
                                                >> > Dang it. I _have_ to find a picture of the type of hat I mean. It's like
                                                >> an
                                                >> > inverted rice bowl big enough to hide at least the top half of your
                                                >> face.
                                                >>
                                                >> hmm...well, eventually I'll find a pic, I guess.
                                                >>
                                                >> >> > -------- Ka!
                                                >> >>
                                                >> >> Is this an inside joke, or do you mean like
                                                >> >> "--------?" as in ANY question?...
                                                >> > --------- Get back to your mat! Sit down and shut up! Breathe! What was
                                                >> your
                                                >> > face before your mother was born? [Mokurai shakes his kyosaku stick.]
                                                >>
                                                >> Hai! (*ouch*)
                                                >>
                                                >> > --------- Hmmm... yes, it can be overwhelming. Let me think about the
                                                >> book
                                                >> > thing. Sounds like I need to do a bibliography. I am curious myself
                                                >> about
                                                >> > the photos. Anyone out there?
                                                >>
                                                >> Thanks!
                                                >>
                                                >> > However, Essentially - white, tan or gray kosode, black transparent silk
                                                >> > monk's robe, stuffed obi (sash), kesa - the true vestment, a sort of
                                                >> > apron/toga thing depending on size, style, rank of the wearer, etc.(I
                                                >> tend
                                                >> > to wear the Rakusu - a mini version for while you're working or
                                                >> traveling),
                                                >> > waraji, mala (Buddhist rosary), bowl, plain cloth bag for carrying
                                                >> stuff,
                                                >> > hat.
                                                >>
                                                >> Yes! thank you so very much! Now I know where to start, finally. :)
                                                >>
                                                >> > Here's a good glossary I just found...
                                                >> > http://barbaria.com/god/philosophy/zen/glossary.htm#k
                                                >>
                                                >> Ooh, that's great.
                                                >>
                                                >> Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it all.
                                                >>
                                                >> Nameless Person
                                                >> --------------------------------------------------
                                                >> Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                                                >> menhs en cort que de belh saber
                                                >> de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                                                >> hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                                                >> e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.
                                                >>
                                                >> --Guiraut Riquier, 1292
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                                                >>
                                                >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                                                >
                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Gara of Lions Gate
                                                ... hmm, that looks like the hats they sell at the 100 yen shop *grin* Gara
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Feb 25, 2001
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                                                  >I have found in my files an image of zen monk standing on a Tokyo street.
                                                  >BTW, you have inspired me to try to work up a paper/handout on the subject
                                                  >of portraying a Buddhist monk in the SCA. Just so you know it will all be
                                                  >your fault. ; -)
                                                  >Oh, that is, unless someone already has, in which case, please share!


                                                  hmm, that looks like the hats they sell at the 100 yen shop *grin*

                                                  Gara
                                                • Munson, Eric
                                                  ... -- hey, if you think you ve got a handle on one that really does look right, don t hold out! Oh, I m also looking for sources for proper fans. probably a
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Feb 26, 2001
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    > ----------
                                                    > From: Gara of Lions Gate
                                                    >
                                                    > hmm, that looks like the hats they sell at the 100 yen shop *grin*
                                                    >
                                                    > Gara
                                                    >
                                                    -- hey, if you think you've got a handle on one that really does look right,
                                                    don't hold out!

                                                    Oh, I'm also looking for sources for proper fans. probably a common question
                                                    for this place.

                                                    - mokurai-bozu


                                                    >
                                                    > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                                                    >
                                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                  • schneider
                                                    Are the fabric thingies called noren? I think they hang those noren out when they are open. Better than having that little black sign with the red letters on
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Are the fabric thingies called noren? I think they hang those noren out when they are open. Better than having that little black sign with the red letters on them that everyone has. Is this sweet sake the same as the "cold served" sake?
                                                      Pocy
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 1:53 AM
                                                      Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head

                                                      Well, I have to admit that it doesn't reeeeally.  I saw a zen monk at Urawa station a couple of days ago (I had this irresistable urge to poke him, I don't know why... no worries though, I left him alone ;) ) and you'd have to do something to the 100 yen shop hat to make it look more authentic.  The hat they sell is labeled as a Vietnam hat... I don't know specifically why Vietnam... maybe I should take a closer look at it.  Of course to me they all look the same... that conical sorta shape made out of some kind of vegetable matter.  ;)
                                                       
                                                      Out of sheer curiosity, can you tell me what the real hats are made of, and how they're made... woven I assume, and probably rice something?  =)
                                                       
                                                      Is it just me, or does everything in this country come from either rice or soy?  I tried amazake a few weeks ago, ewwwww gross.  Might have been better if it had been hot rather than luke warm.  Just something about rice chunks floating in a drink that I can't get past though.  It automatically brings on the gag reaction.  I ended up feeding my cupful to a nearby bush.  (Editor's note: amazake literally means "sweet sake"). 
                                                       
                                                      Gara
                                                       
                                                      p.s. Incidentally the 100 yen shop also has lately these fabric thingies, like the thingies you hang in doorways (I know their was a discussion about those awhile back but I'm brain dead this week... I almost quit my job *blah*).  They have faces on them (uh, yukioe?  no no no, what is that artwork called?), and some other ones have kanji I can't read.  Maybe I should buy one and ask a Japanese friend to read it to me.
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:02 PM
                                                      Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head



                                                      > ----------
                                                      > From:       Gara of Lions Gate
                                                      >
                                                      > hmm, that looks like the hats they sell at the 100 yen shop  *grin*
                                                      >
                                                      > Gara
                                                      >
                                                      -- hey, if you think you've got a handle on one that really does look right,
                                                      don't hold out!

                                                      Oh, I'm also looking for sources for proper fans. probably a common question
                                                      for this place.

                                                      - mokurai-bozu


                                                      >
                                                      > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                                                      >
                                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >


                                                      UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...

                                                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                    • Gara of Lions Gate
                                                      Well, I have to admit that it doesn t reeeeally. I saw a zen monk at Urawa station a couple of days ago (I had this irresistable urge to poke him, I don t
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Mar 1, 2001
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Well, I have to admit that it doesn't reeeeally.  I saw a zen monk at Urawa station a couple of days ago (I had this irresistable urge to poke him, I don't know why... no worries though, I left him alone ;) ) and you'd have to do something to the 100 yen shop hat to make it look more authentic.  The hat they sell is labeled as a Vietnam hat... I don't know specifically why Vietnam... maybe I should take a closer look at it.  Of course to me they all look the same... that conical sorta shape made out of some kind of vegetable matter.  ;)
                                                         
                                                        Out of sheer curiosity, can you tell me what the real hats are made of, and how they're made... woven I assume, and probably rice something?  =)
                                                         
                                                        Is it just me, or does everything in this country come from either rice or soy?  I tried amazake a few weeks ago, ewwwww gross.  Might have been better if it had been hot rather than luke warm.  Just something about rice chunks floating in a drink that I can't get past though.  It automatically brings on the gag reaction.  I ended up feeding my cupful to a nearby bush.  (Editor's note: amazake literally means "sweet sake"). 
                                                         
                                                        Gara
                                                         
                                                        p.s. Incidentally the 100 yen shop also has lately these fabric thingies, like the thingies you hang in doorways (I know their was a discussion about those awhile back but I'm brain dead this week... I almost quit my job *blah*).  They have faces on them (uh, yukioe?  no no no, what is that artwork called?), and some other ones have kanji I can't read.  Maybe I should buy one and ask a Japanese friend to read it to me.
                                                         
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:02 PM
                                                        Subject: RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Shaved head



                                                        > ----------
                                                        > From:       Gara of Lions Gate
                                                        >
                                                        > hmm, that looks like the hats they sell at the 100 yen shop  *grin*
                                                        >
                                                        > Gara
                                                        >
                                                        -- hey, if you think you've got a handle on one that really does look right,
                                                        don't hold out!

                                                        Oh, I'm also looking for sources for proper fans. probably a common question
                                                        for this place.

                                                        - mokurai-bozu


                                                        >
                                                        > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                                                        >
                                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
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