Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-JML] greetings!

Expand Messages
  • Stephen Higa
    Oh, how embarassing! My name said Confucius. I apologize; my roommate must have done this. Sorry for so many messages! Nameless Person ... Qu er non es
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 6, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Re: [SCA-JML] greetings! Oh, how embarassing!  My name said "Confucius."  I apologize; my roommate must have done this.

      Sorry for so many messages!

      Nameless Person
      --------------------------------------------------
      Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
      menhs en cort que de belh saber
      de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
      hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
      e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                      --Guiraut Riquier, 1292


      ----------
      From: "Confucius" <mitsuo@...>
      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] greetings!
      Date: Tue, Feb 6, 2001, 7:58 PM



      > 'Fraid not. My sources indicate that the shamisen started appearing in
      > Japan in "early Edo" -- which is typically defined as anywhere from 1610
      > to 1680. If it were before 1610, they usually say "Momoyama - early
      > Edo." And the shamisen wasn't an accepted "court instrument," either, no
      > more than the banjo is typically found in an orchestra. It was very much
      > a commoner instrument, and more or less took the place of the biwa as a
      > joururi instrument.

      Ah, okay.  Well, any other possibilities for a 16th c. stringed instrument (not as expensive as the biwa) that I've overlooked?

      > The jabisen arrived in Okinawa or Japan sometime c. 1570, and was
      > modified between 1595 and 1625 into the shamisen, and then started to
      > gain popularity in Japan proper.

      Wait--so, might I be safe with the Chinese version, then (it arrived in Japan ca. 1570?)?  Or would nobody have had those in "Japan proper" until it became the shamisen?

      > Personally, I like shamisen, but they are quintessentially Edo
      > intstruments, and I'm just as annoyed by the thought of a shamisen at an
      > event as I am a modern-style guitar (which is also far too common in the
      > SCA).

      Yes, I know your pain.  Guitars still annoy me, but unfortunately I've been numbed to almost-indifference by people playing modern violin.  However, I still have a crusade against obviously post-period folk songs.  Where I am, nobody save myself performs actual medieval music...all folk songs, and 17th c. stuff at best.  I once heard some ladies perform a badly-pronounced Arabic "tribal folk song" in 5-part harmony...Oh, how I cringed.

      >
      >> (as a side note, Japanese folk singing is so hard to get right!  Has
      >> anybody had any luck?)

      > Some, yes. The tone waver problem is tough, as is singing like I have a
      > head cold. <G>

      Yes! :)  I have a lot of trouble getting Italian styles, too.  But you've had some luck?  Any tips?
      So, are you a musician?


      Health attend you,
      Nameless Person
      --------------------------------------------------
      Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
      menhs en cort que de belh saber
      de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
      hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
      e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                      --Guiraut Riquier, 1292



      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

      www.  
      UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...

    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... Okay, a history junkie. Cool. ... Ah, Ly. Solveig got ya. Any particular reason you re going with TWO houmyou? ... It occurs to me that there have to
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 6, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Confucius wrote:

        >
        > > Welcome to the madhouse! What are you studying in terms of
        > history?
        >
        > Um, thanks... ;). I'm focusing on late 19th/early 20th c.
        > and Colonial America. Of course, then there's my SCA focus
        > on 12th c. Spain, which (with the help of this noble list :)
        > I hope to expand to include 16th c. Japan.
        >

        Okay, a history junkie. Cool.

        >
        > >> Or what about "Hadaka no Semi" (naked cicada) so it LOOKS
        > like
        > >> a regular name, but isn't...I think Semi would get a kick
        > out of that. :)
        >
        > > Well, it's different. <G>
        >
        > I have just been contacted by a wonderful lady in the aspect
        > of names. Apparently, as a Zen monk, I shall soon be
        > choosing two hoomyoo names. Any recommendations for
        > sources?
        >
        >
        Ah, Ly. Solveig got ya. <G> Any particular reason you're going with TWO
        houmyou?

        >
        > > Well, you don't have to be blind, but it helps. If you
        > want to buy a biwa, I
        > > hope you've got bucks. I've got a catalogue from a company
        > that sells 'em
        > > (among a pile of other things), and in 1988 it cost
        > 480,000 yen. Back then,
        > > that was about $5,000.
        >
        > Blast it, that's what I was afraid of. Oh well for that,
        > unless I miraculously stumble upon a really cheap one.
        >

        It occurs to me that there have to be cheaper models. Heck, what do
        student's learn on? The really cheap-cheap ones will probably start
        around $800 or so, I'd imagine. Twenty years ago, I bought a student's
        koto, and THEN I paid $500 for it. A big reason for the cost is the
        scarcity of the thing; very few people learn biwa. You'd probably have
        to go to Japan to do it, but if you did I could probably hook you up.

        Effingham
      • Anthony J. Bryant
        ... Given any thought to the fue or shakuhachi? They re a heck of a lot more portable... Course, you can t sing *and* play... There s the koto, but you have
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 6, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          Confucius wrote:

          >
          >
          >
          > > 'Fraid not. My sources indicate that the shamisen started
          > appearing in
          > > Japan in "early Edo" -- which is typically defined as
          > anywhere from 1610
          > > to 1680. If it were before 1610, they usually say
          > "Momoyama - early
          > > Edo." And the shamisen wasn't an accepted "court
          > instrument," either, no
          > > more than the banjo is typically found in an orchestra. It
          > was very much
          > > a commoner instrument, and more or less took the place of
          > the biwa as a
          > > joururi instrument.
          >
          > Ah, okay. Well, any other possibilities for a 16th c.
          > stringed instrument (not as expensive as the biwa) that I've
          > overlooked?
          >

          Given any thought to the fue or shakuhachi? They're a heck of a lot more
          portable... 'Course, you can't sing *and* play... There's the koto, but
          you have more issues to deal with in terms of lugging the thing around
          and tuning it each time you play. That's primarily why I gave up the
          koto, although there are times I wish I'd've stayed with it.

          >
          > > The jabisen arrived in Okinawa or Japan sometime c. 1570,
          > and was
          > > modified between 1595 and 1625 into the shamisen, and then
          > started to
          > > gain popularity in Japan proper.
          >
          > Wait--so, might I be safe with the Chinese version, then (it
          > arrived in Japan ca. 1570?)? Or would nobody have had those
          > in "Japan proper" until it became the shamisen?
          >

          If you can find a jabisen.

          If you want to do shamisen, I think you have to give up the idea of
          being a monk. Shamisen didn't really make it early on as a monastic
          instrument; the tradition of the biwa was far too strong. If you *must*
          get a shamisen, develop an entertainer persona, as these would have been
          the folks popularizing it.

          >
          > > Personally, I like shamisen, but they are quintessentially
          > Edo
          > > intstruments, and I'm just as annoyed by the thought of a
          > shamisen at an
          > > event as I am a modern-style guitar (which is also far too
          > common in the
          > > SCA).
          >
          > Yes, I know your pain. Guitars still annoy me, but
          > unfortunately I've been numbed to almost-indifference by
          > people playing modern violin. However, I still have a
          > crusade against obviously post-period folk songs. Where I
          > am, nobody save myself performs actual medieval music...all
          > folk songs, and 17th c. stuff at best. I once heard some
          > ladies perform a badly-pronounced Arabic "tribal folk song"
          > in 5-part harmony...Oh, how I cringed.
          >
          > >
          > >> (as a side note, Japanese folk singing is so hard to get
          > right! Has
          > >> anybody had any luck?)
          >
          > > Some, yes. The tone waver problem is tough, as is singing
          > like I have a
          > > head cold. <G>
          >
          > Yes! :) I have a lot of trouble getting Italian styles,
          > too. But you've had some luck? Any tips?
          > So, are you a musician?
          >

          No, I just spent a lot of time in bars singing enka. And I have some
          friends (well, had... I've not been in contact for a while...sigh) who
          are Noh performers, and who showed me lots of cool tricks. Don't ask how
          long it took me to learn just to *walk* for Noh. And it's been like 10
          years, so of course I've forgotten it all and wasted yet another cool
          thing I once knew how to do. That sux, b'lieve me.

          No, I'm not a musician. Not a singer, either, as you'd know if you'd
          ever been in Usami when I had the mike. <G>

          Effingham
        • heathergray@ivillage.com
          Found some of the instruments you ve been speaking about at Lark in the Morning ( http://www.larkinthemorning.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/japa n )
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Found some of the instruments you've been speaking about at Lark in
            the Morning (
            http://www.larkinthemorning.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/japa
            n )

            Full sized 6' traditional Koto $850.00
            Portable Mini 34" Koto $875.00
            Full sized instrument of traditional koto wood with 13 Tetlon
            strings. $2000.00

            (Bamboo, beginner quality)
            Basic Shakuhachi SHK023 $65.00
            Good Student Shakuhachi SHK001 $155.00

            (Wood, better quality, but not traditional bamboo)
            $320 and up

            Ioriya Takara



            >
            > Given any thought to the fue or shakuhachi? They're a heck of a lot
            more
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... I love those people! Note that though they don t have a biwa, they *do* have a pipa, which is the Chinese form of a biwa, and the modern sanxian (a cousin
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              heathergray@... wrote:

              > Found some of the instruments you've been speaking about at Lark in
              > the Morning (
              > http://www.larkinthemorning.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/japa
              > n )
              >
              >

              I love those people!


              Note that though they don't have a biwa, they *do* have a pipa, which is
              the Chinese form of a biwa, and the modern sanxian (a cousin of the
              shamisen).

              http://www.larkinam.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/LarkNet/China

              Student model pipa is $299! Gotta love Chinese products. <G>

              Effingham
            • Stephen Higa
              ... What do they look like? I have seen the sanxian, and the vietnamese one, but... ... That sounds good, but I really would like a monk persona. However,
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Re: [SCA-JML] greetings!

                > If you can find a jabisen.

                What do they look like?  I have seen the sanxian, and the vietnamese one, but...

                > If you want to do shamisen, I think you have to give up the idea of
                > being a monk. Shamisen didn't really make it early on as a monastic
                > instrument; the tradition of the biwa was far too strong. If you *must*
                > get a shamisen, develop an entertainer persona, as these would have been
                > the folks popularizing it.

                That sounds good, but I really would like a monk persona.  However, wouldn't it be interesting to be a No female-impersonator?  Or a male prostitute?  I have a (female) friend who's a 16th c. Florentine courtesan... ;)

                > No, I just spent a lot of time in bars singing enka. And I have some
                > friends (well, had... I've not been in contact for a while...sigh) who
                > are Noh performers, and who showed me lots of cool tricks. Don't ask how
                > long it took me to learn just to *walk* for Noh. And it's been like 10
                > years, so of course I've forgotten it all and wasted yet another cool
                > thing I once knew how to do. That sux, b'lieve me.

                OH no!  That does sound really cool!  It would be neat to have a No actor persona... :)

                > No, I'm not a musician. Not a singer, either, as you'd know if you'd
                > ever been in Usami when I had the mike. <G>

                he he :)

                Health attend you,
                Nameless Person
                --------------------------------------------------
                Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                menhs en cort que de belh saber
                de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                                --Guiraut Riquier, 1292

              • Stephen Higa
                Ah yes, Lark in the Morning! So--what do you think about the pipa or sanxian for a substitute? Nameless Person ... Qu er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers menhs
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  Re: [SCA-JML] Re: greetings! - instruments at Lark in the Morning Ah yes, Lark in the Morning!  So--what do you think about the pipa or sanxian for a substitute?

                  Nameless Person
                  --------------------------------------------------
                  Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                  menhs en cort que de belh saber
                  de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                  hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                  e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                                  --Guiraut Riquier, 1292


                  ----------
                  From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: greetings! - instruments at Lark in the Morning
                  Date: Wed, Feb 7, 2001, 11:38 AM


                  heathergray@... wrote:

                  > Found some of the instruments you've been speaking about at Lark in
                  > the Morning (
                  > http://www.larkinthemorning.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/japa
                  > n )
                  >
                  >

                  I love those people!


                  Note that though they don't have a biwa, they *do* have a pipa, which is
                  the Chinese form of a biwa, and the modern sanxian (a cousin of the
                  shamisen).

                  http://www.larkinam.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/LarkNet/China

                  Student model pipa is $299! Gotta love Chinese products. <G>

                  Effingham





                  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com
                  UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...

                • Anthony J. Bryant
                  ... I d go with the pipa. Effingham
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Stephen Higa wrote:

                    > Ah yes, Lark in the Morning! So--what do you think about the pipa or
                    > sanxian for a substitute?
                    >

                    I'd go with the pipa.


                    Effingham
                  • schneider
                    How many of the Chinese intruments can be used in Japanese cultural stuff? I liked some of the bowed instruments that are mroe affordable :D. $70 some and
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      How many of the Chinese intruments can be used in Japanese cultural stuff?
                      I liked some of the bowed instruments that are mroe affordable :D. $70 some
                      and sounds nice
                      Pocy
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                      To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:33 PM
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: greetings! - instruments at Lark in the Morning


                      > Stephen Higa wrote:
                      >
                      > > Ah yes, Lark in the Morning! So--what do you think about the pipa or
                      > > sanxian for a substitute?
                      > >
                      >
                      > I'd go with the pipa.
                      >
                      >
                      > Effingham
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                      >
                      >
                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... The pipa is really the only one of the stringed instruments with a direct analogue to something in Period Japan. Regardless, there s the problem of
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        schneider wrote:

                        > How many of the Chinese intruments can be used in Japanese cultural stuff?
                        > I liked some of the bowed instruments that are mroe affordable :D. $70 some
                        > and sounds nice

                        The pipa is really the only one of the stringed instruments with a direct
                        analogue to something in Period Japan.

                        Regardless, there's the problem of learning to play the bloody thing....


                        Effingham
                      • schneider
                        What about the Erhu?I kinda got a liknig for it Pocy ... From: Anthony J. Bryant To: Sent: Wednesday,
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          What about the Erhu?I kinda got a liknig for it
                          Pocy
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                          To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 9:13 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: greetings! - instruments at Lark in the Morning


                          > schneider wrote:
                          >
                          > > How many of the Chinese intruments can be used in Japanese cultural
                          stuff?
                          > > I liked some of the bowed instruments that are mroe affordable :D. $70
                          some
                          > > and sounds nice
                          >
                          > The pipa is really the only one of the stringed instruments with a direct
                          > analogue to something in Period Japan.
                          >
                          > Regardless, there's the problem of learning to play the bloody thing....
                          >
                          >
                          > Effingham
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          >
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.