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Re: [SCA-JML] greetings!

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  • Confucius
    ... Um, thanks... ;). I m focusing on late 19th/early 20th c. and Colonial America. Of course, then there s my SCA focus on 12th c. Spain, which (with the
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 6, 2001
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      Re: [SCA-JML] greetings!

      > Welcome to the madhouse! What are you studying in terms of history?

      Um, thanks... ;).  I'm focusing on late 19th/early 20th c. and Colonial America.  Of course, then there's my SCA focus on 12th c. Spain, which (with the help of this noble list :) I hope to expand to include 16th c. Japan.

      >> Or what about "Hadaka no Semi" (naked cicada) so it LOOKS like
      >> a regular name, but isn't...I think Semi would get a kick out of that. :)

      > Well, it's different. <G>

      I have just been contacted by a wonderful lady in the aspect of names.  Apparently, as a Zen monk, I shall soon be choosing two hoomyoo names.  Any recommendations for sources?

      > Well, you don't have to be blind, but it helps. If you want to buy a biwa, I
      > hope you've got bucks. I've got a catalogue from a company that sells 'em
      > (among a pile of other things), and in 1988 it cost 480,000 yen. Back then,
      > that was about $5,000.

      Blast it, that's what I was afraid of.  Oh well for that, unless I miraculously stumble upon a really cheap one.

      Health attend you,
      Nameless Person
      --------------------------------------------------
      Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
      menhs en cort que de belh saber
      de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
      hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
      e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                      --Guiraut Riquier, 1292

    • Confucius
      ... Ah, okay. Well, any other possibilities for a 16th c. stringed instrument (not as expensive as the biwa) that I ve overlooked? ... Wait--so, might I be
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 6, 2001
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        Re: [SCA-JML] greetings!

        > 'Fraid not. My sources indicate that the shamisen started appearing in
        > Japan in "early Edo" -- which is typically defined as anywhere from 1610
        > to 1680. If it were before 1610, they usually say "Momoyama - early
        > Edo." And the shamisen wasn't an accepted "court instrument," either, no
        > more than the banjo is typically found in an orchestra. It was very much
        > a commoner instrument, and more or less took the place of the biwa as a
        > joururi instrument.

        Ah, okay.  Well, any other possibilities for a 16th c. stringed instrument (not as expensive as the biwa) that I've overlooked?

        > The jabisen arrived in Okinawa or Japan sometime c. 1570, and was
        > modified between 1595 and 1625 into the shamisen, and then started to
        > gain popularity in Japan proper.

        Wait--so, might I be safe with the Chinese version, then (it arrived in Japan ca. 1570?)?  Or would nobody have had those in "Japan proper" until it became the shamisen?

        > Personally, I like shamisen, but they are quintessentially Edo
        > intstruments, and I'm just as annoyed by the thought of a shamisen at an
        > event as I am a modern-style guitar (which is also far too common in the
        > SCA).

        Yes, I know your pain.  Guitars still annoy me, but unfortunately I've been numbed to almost-indifference by people playing modern violin.  However, I still have a crusade against obviously post-period folk songs.  Where I am, nobody save myself performs actual medieval music...all folk songs, and 17th c. stuff at best.  I once heard some ladies perform a badly-pronounced Arabic "tribal folk song" in 5-part harmony...Oh, how I cringed.

        >
        >> (as a side note, Japanese folk singing is so hard to get right!  Has
        >> anybody had any luck?)

        > Some, yes. The tone waver problem is tough, as is singing like I have a
        > head cold. <G>

        Yes! :)  I have a lot of trouble getting Italian styles, too.  But you've had some luck?  Any tips?
        So, are you a musician?


        Health attend you,
        Nameless Person
        --------------------------------------------------
        Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
        menhs en cort que de belh saber
        de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
        hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
        e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                        --Guiraut Riquier, 1292


      • Stephen Higa
        Oh, how embarassing! My name said Confucius. I apologize; my roommate must have done this. Sorry for so many messages! Nameless Person ... Qu er non es
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 6, 2001
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          Re: [SCA-JML] greetings! Oh, how embarassing!  My name said "Confucius."  I apologize; my roommate must have done this.

          Sorry for so many messages!

          Nameless Person
          --------------------------------------------------
          Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
          menhs en cort que de belh saber
          de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
          hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
          e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                          --Guiraut Riquier, 1292


          ----------
          From: "Confucius" <mitsuo@...>
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] greetings!
          Date: Tue, Feb 6, 2001, 7:58 PM



          > 'Fraid not. My sources indicate that the shamisen started appearing in
          > Japan in "early Edo" -- which is typically defined as anywhere from 1610
          > to 1680. If it were before 1610, they usually say "Momoyama - early
          > Edo." And the shamisen wasn't an accepted "court instrument," either, no
          > more than the banjo is typically found in an orchestra. It was very much
          > a commoner instrument, and more or less took the place of the biwa as a
          > joururi instrument.

          Ah, okay.  Well, any other possibilities for a 16th c. stringed instrument (not as expensive as the biwa) that I've overlooked?

          > The jabisen arrived in Okinawa or Japan sometime c. 1570, and was
          > modified between 1595 and 1625 into the shamisen, and then started to
          > gain popularity in Japan proper.

          Wait--so, might I be safe with the Chinese version, then (it arrived in Japan ca. 1570?)?  Or would nobody have had those in "Japan proper" until it became the shamisen?

          > Personally, I like shamisen, but they are quintessentially Edo
          > intstruments, and I'm just as annoyed by the thought of a shamisen at an
          > event as I am a modern-style guitar (which is also far too common in the
          > SCA).

          Yes, I know your pain.  Guitars still annoy me, but unfortunately I've been numbed to almost-indifference by people playing modern violin.  However, I still have a crusade against obviously post-period folk songs.  Where I am, nobody save myself performs actual medieval music...all folk songs, and 17th c. stuff at best.  I once heard some ladies perform a badly-pronounced Arabic "tribal folk song" in 5-part harmony...Oh, how I cringed.

          >
          >> (as a side note, Japanese folk singing is so hard to get right!  Has
          >> anybody had any luck?)

          > Some, yes. The tone waver problem is tough, as is singing like I have a
          > head cold. <G>

          Yes! :)  I have a lot of trouble getting Italian styles, too.  But you've had some luck?  Any tips?
          So, are you a musician?


          Health attend you,
          Nameless Person
          --------------------------------------------------
          Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
          menhs en cort que de belh saber
          de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
          hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
          e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                          --Guiraut Riquier, 1292



          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

          www.  
          UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...

        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... Okay, a history junkie. Cool. ... Ah, Ly. Solveig got ya. Any particular reason you re going with TWO houmyou? ... It occurs to me that there have to
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 6, 2001
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            Confucius wrote:

            >
            > > Welcome to the madhouse! What are you studying in terms of
            > history?
            >
            > Um, thanks... ;). I'm focusing on late 19th/early 20th c.
            > and Colonial America. Of course, then there's my SCA focus
            > on 12th c. Spain, which (with the help of this noble list :)
            > I hope to expand to include 16th c. Japan.
            >

            Okay, a history junkie. Cool.

            >
            > >> Or what about "Hadaka no Semi" (naked cicada) so it LOOKS
            > like
            > >> a regular name, but isn't...I think Semi would get a kick
            > out of that. :)
            >
            > > Well, it's different. <G>
            >
            > I have just been contacted by a wonderful lady in the aspect
            > of names. Apparently, as a Zen monk, I shall soon be
            > choosing two hoomyoo names. Any recommendations for
            > sources?
            >
            >
            Ah, Ly. Solveig got ya. <G> Any particular reason you're going with TWO
            houmyou?

            >
            > > Well, you don't have to be blind, but it helps. If you
            > want to buy a biwa, I
            > > hope you've got bucks. I've got a catalogue from a company
            > that sells 'em
            > > (among a pile of other things), and in 1988 it cost
            > 480,000 yen. Back then,
            > > that was about $5,000.
            >
            > Blast it, that's what I was afraid of. Oh well for that,
            > unless I miraculously stumble upon a really cheap one.
            >

            It occurs to me that there have to be cheaper models. Heck, what do
            student's learn on? The really cheap-cheap ones will probably start
            around $800 or so, I'd imagine. Twenty years ago, I bought a student's
            koto, and THEN I paid $500 for it. A big reason for the cost is the
            scarcity of the thing; very few people learn biwa. You'd probably have
            to go to Japan to do it, but if you did I could probably hook you up.

            Effingham
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... Given any thought to the fue or shakuhachi? They re a heck of a lot more portable... Course, you can t sing *and* play... There s the koto, but you have
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 6, 2001
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              Confucius wrote:

              >
              >
              >
              > > 'Fraid not. My sources indicate that the shamisen started
              > appearing in
              > > Japan in "early Edo" -- which is typically defined as
              > anywhere from 1610
              > > to 1680. If it were before 1610, they usually say
              > "Momoyama - early
              > > Edo." And the shamisen wasn't an accepted "court
              > instrument," either, no
              > > more than the banjo is typically found in an orchestra. It
              > was very much
              > > a commoner instrument, and more or less took the place of
              > the biwa as a
              > > joururi instrument.
              >
              > Ah, okay. Well, any other possibilities for a 16th c.
              > stringed instrument (not as expensive as the biwa) that I've
              > overlooked?
              >

              Given any thought to the fue or shakuhachi? They're a heck of a lot more
              portable... 'Course, you can't sing *and* play... There's the koto, but
              you have more issues to deal with in terms of lugging the thing around
              and tuning it each time you play. That's primarily why I gave up the
              koto, although there are times I wish I'd've stayed with it.

              >
              > > The jabisen arrived in Okinawa or Japan sometime c. 1570,
              > and was
              > > modified between 1595 and 1625 into the shamisen, and then
              > started to
              > > gain popularity in Japan proper.
              >
              > Wait--so, might I be safe with the Chinese version, then (it
              > arrived in Japan ca. 1570?)? Or would nobody have had those
              > in "Japan proper" until it became the shamisen?
              >

              If you can find a jabisen.

              If you want to do shamisen, I think you have to give up the idea of
              being a monk. Shamisen didn't really make it early on as a monastic
              instrument; the tradition of the biwa was far too strong. If you *must*
              get a shamisen, develop an entertainer persona, as these would have been
              the folks popularizing it.

              >
              > > Personally, I like shamisen, but they are quintessentially
              > Edo
              > > intstruments, and I'm just as annoyed by the thought of a
              > shamisen at an
              > > event as I am a modern-style guitar (which is also far too
              > common in the
              > > SCA).
              >
              > Yes, I know your pain. Guitars still annoy me, but
              > unfortunately I've been numbed to almost-indifference by
              > people playing modern violin. However, I still have a
              > crusade against obviously post-period folk songs. Where I
              > am, nobody save myself performs actual medieval music...all
              > folk songs, and 17th c. stuff at best. I once heard some
              > ladies perform a badly-pronounced Arabic "tribal folk song"
              > in 5-part harmony...Oh, how I cringed.
              >
              > >
              > >> (as a side note, Japanese folk singing is so hard to get
              > right! Has
              > >> anybody had any luck?)
              >
              > > Some, yes. The tone waver problem is tough, as is singing
              > like I have a
              > > head cold. <G>
              >
              > Yes! :) I have a lot of trouble getting Italian styles,
              > too. But you've had some luck? Any tips?
              > So, are you a musician?
              >

              No, I just spent a lot of time in bars singing enka. And I have some
              friends (well, had... I've not been in contact for a while...sigh) who
              are Noh performers, and who showed me lots of cool tricks. Don't ask how
              long it took me to learn just to *walk* for Noh. And it's been like 10
              years, so of course I've forgotten it all and wasted yet another cool
              thing I once knew how to do. That sux, b'lieve me.

              No, I'm not a musician. Not a singer, either, as you'd know if you'd
              ever been in Usami when I had the mike. <G>

              Effingham
            • heathergray@ivillage.com
              Found some of the instruments you ve been speaking about at Lark in the Morning ( http://www.larkinthemorning.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/japa n )
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
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                Found some of the instruments you've been speaking about at Lark in
                the Morning (
                http://www.larkinthemorning.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/japa
                n )

                Full sized 6' traditional Koto $850.00
                Portable Mini 34" Koto $875.00
                Full sized instrument of traditional koto wood with 13 Tetlon
                strings. $2000.00

                (Bamboo, beginner quality)
                Basic Shakuhachi SHK023 $65.00
                Good Student Shakuhachi SHK001 $155.00

                (Wood, better quality, but not traditional bamboo)
                $320 and up

                Ioriya Takara



                >
                > Given any thought to the fue or shakuhachi? They're a heck of a lot
                more
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... I love those people! Note that though they don t have a biwa, they *do* have a pipa, which is the Chinese form of a biwa, and the modern sanxian (a cousin
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
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                  heathergray@... wrote:

                  > Found some of the instruments you've been speaking about at Lark in
                  > the Morning (
                  > http://www.larkinthemorning.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/japa
                  > n )
                  >
                  >

                  I love those people!


                  Note that though they don't have a biwa, they *do* have a pipa, which is
                  the Chinese form of a biwa, and the modern sanxian (a cousin of the
                  shamisen).

                  http://www.larkinam.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/LarkNet/China

                  Student model pipa is $299! Gotta love Chinese products. <G>

                  Effingham
                • Stephen Higa
                  ... What do they look like? I have seen the sanxian, and the vietnamese one, but... ... That sounds good, but I really would like a monk persona. However,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
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                    Re: [SCA-JML] greetings!

                    > If you can find a jabisen.

                    What do they look like?  I have seen the sanxian, and the vietnamese one, but...

                    > If you want to do shamisen, I think you have to give up the idea of
                    > being a monk. Shamisen didn't really make it early on as a monastic
                    > instrument; the tradition of the biwa was far too strong. If you *must*
                    > get a shamisen, develop an entertainer persona, as these would have been
                    > the folks popularizing it.

                    That sounds good, but I really would like a monk persona.  However, wouldn't it be interesting to be a No female-impersonator?  Or a male prostitute?  I have a (female) friend who's a 16th c. Florentine courtesan... ;)

                    > No, I just spent a lot of time in bars singing enka. And I have some
                    > friends (well, had... I've not been in contact for a while...sigh) who
                    > are Noh performers, and who showed me lots of cool tricks. Don't ask how
                    > long it took me to learn just to *walk* for Noh. And it's been like 10
                    > years, so of course I've forgotten it all and wasted yet another cool
                    > thing I once knew how to do. That sux, b'lieve me.

                    OH no!  That does sound really cool!  It would be neat to have a No actor persona... :)

                    > No, I'm not a musician. Not a singer, either, as you'd know if you'd
                    > ever been in Usami when I had the mike. <G>

                    he he :)

                    Health attend you,
                    Nameless Person
                    --------------------------------------------------
                    Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                    menhs en cort que de belh saber
                    de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                    hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                    e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                                    --Guiraut Riquier, 1292

                  • Stephen Higa
                    Ah yes, Lark in the Morning! So--what do you think about the pipa or sanxian for a substitute? Nameless Person ... Qu er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers menhs
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
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                      Re: [SCA-JML] Re: greetings! - instruments at Lark in the Morning Ah yes, Lark in the Morning!  So--what do you think about the pipa or sanxian for a substitute?

                      Nameless Person
                      --------------------------------------------------
                      Qu'er non es grazitz lunhs mestiers
                      menhs en cort que de belh saber
                      de trobar -- qu'auzir e vezer
                      hi vol hom mais captenhs leugiers
                      e critz mesclatz ab dezonor.

                                      --Guiraut Riquier, 1292


                      ----------
                      From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: greetings! - instruments at Lark in the Morning
                      Date: Wed, Feb 7, 2001, 11:38 AM


                      heathergray@... wrote:

                      > Found some of the instruments you've been speaking about at Lark in
                      > the Morning (
                      > http://www.larkinthemorning.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Larknet/japa
                      > n )
                      >
                      >

                      I love those people!


                      Note that though they don't have a biwa, they *do* have a pipa, which is
                      the Chinese form of a biwa, and the modern sanxian (a cousin of the
                      shamisen).

                      http://www.larkinam.com/MenComNet/Business/Retail/LarkNet/China

                      Student model pipa is $299! Gotta love Chinese products. <G>

                      Effingham





                      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com
                      UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...

                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... I d go with the pipa. Effingham
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
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                        Stephen Higa wrote:

                        > Ah yes, Lark in the Morning! So--what do you think about the pipa or
                        > sanxian for a substitute?
                        >

                        I'd go with the pipa.


                        Effingham
                      • schneider
                        How many of the Chinese intruments can be used in Japanese cultural stuff? I liked some of the bowed instruments that are mroe affordable :D. $70 some and
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
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                          How many of the Chinese intruments can be used in Japanese cultural stuff?
                          I liked some of the bowed instruments that are mroe affordable :D. $70 some
                          and sounds nice
                          Pocy
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                          To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:33 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: greetings! - instruments at Lark in the Morning


                          > Stephen Higa wrote:
                          >
                          > > Ah yes, Lark in the Morning! So--what do you think about the pipa or
                          > > sanxian for a substitute?
                          > >
                          >
                          > I'd go with the pipa.
                          >
                          >
                          > Effingham
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          >
                        • Anthony J. Bryant
                          ... The pipa is really the only one of the stringed instruments with a direct analogue to something in Period Japan. Regardless, there s the problem of
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
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                            schneider wrote:

                            > How many of the Chinese intruments can be used in Japanese cultural stuff?
                            > I liked some of the bowed instruments that are mroe affordable :D. $70 some
                            > and sounds nice

                            The pipa is really the only one of the stringed instruments with a direct
                            analogue to something in Period Japan.

                            Regardless, there's the problem of learning to play the bloody thing....


                            Effingham
                          • schneider
                            What about the Erhu?I kinda got a liknig for it Pocy ... From: Anthony J. Bryant To: Sent: Wednesday,
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 7, 2001
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                              What about the Erhu?I kinda got a liknig for it
                              Pocy
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
                              To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 9:13 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: greetings! - instruments at Lark in the Morning


                              > schneider wrote:
                              >
                              > > How many of the Chinese intruments can be used in Japanese cultural
                              stuff?
                              > > I liked some of the bowed instruments that are mroe affordable :D. $70
                              some
                              > > and sounds nice
                              >
                              > The pipa is really the only one of the stringed instruments with a direct
                              > analogue to something in Period Japan.
                              >
                              > Regardless, there's the problem of learning to play the bloody thing....
                              >
                              >
                              > Effingham
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@...
                              >
                              >
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