Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-JML] Heian make-up

Expand Messages
  • Andrea Gideon
    ... The one in particular,a women s site linked from an SCA household site, had the full modern giesha, with tiny red lips and red eyeshadow over heavy black
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 6, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      >
      >
      > How are you defining geisha make-up? White-face, or the whole nine yards?
      >
      > Heian style was definitely not Edo geisha style; white-face, yes, but the
      > eyebrows were plucked and painted on high on the forehead (giving one the
      > perpetual "who, me?" look).
      >
      > Effingham

      The one in particular,a women's site linked from an SCA household site, had
      the full modern giesha, with tiny red lips and red eyeshadow over heavy black
      eyeliner.

      Nadeshiko
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... The little lips bit is okay; the rest of it is... well, creative. Effingham
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 6, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Andrea Gideon wrote:

        > >
        > >
        > > How are you defining geisha make-up? White-face, or the whole nine yards?
        > >
        > > Heian style was definitely not Edo geisha style; white-face, yes, but the
        > > eyebrows were plucked and painted on high on the forehead (giving one the
        > > perpetual "who, me?" look).
        > >
        > > Effingham
        >
        > The one in particular,a women's site linked from an SCA household site, had
        > the full modern giesha, with tiny red lips and red eyeshadow over heavy black
        > eyeliner.

        The little lips bit is okay; the rest of it is... well, creative.


        Effingham
      • historian@reconstructinghistory.com
        ... site, had ... heavy black ... What!?!?!?! I go off list for a few days and this is what happens? Oh my... I know this has already been covered and put to
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 7, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          > > The one in particular,a women's site linked from an SCA household
          site, had
          > > the full modern giesha, with tiny red lips and red eyeshadow over
          heavy black
          > > eyeliner.
          >
          > The little lips bit is okay; the rest of it is... well, creative.

          What!?!?!?! I go off list for a few days and this is what happens?
          Oh my...

          I know this has already been covered and put to rest. Thank you
          Nadeshiko-hime for asking the question in the first place. Good eyes!

          Since I first started doing Japanese re-enactment, I have been
          flabbergasted at the amount of modern and pre-modern (i.e. 19th
          century) garb and effects that get paraded around the SCA
          as "Japanese". Well, sure these things are Japanese. But they are
          about as "Period" as jeans and a T-shirt.

          Just because Japan has many traditions in their culture does not mean
          all (or even any) of those traditions wer born in antiquity. Modern
          hakama are not period hakama. Modern kimono are not period kosode.
          And wearing one's hair up with "chopsticks" came around in the 18th
          century.

          If you were a Western persona, you wouldn't walk into an event in a
          business suit, would you?

          The fact that this information on "Japanese persona makeup" is out
          there on an SCA-linked website makes my skin crawl. Now wonder
          the "main stream" SCA often thinks we're just a bunch of karate-movie
          and anime-watching farbs...

          Fujiwara no Aoi
          disgusted
        • Joshua Badgley
          ... But I like watching karate-movies and anime! ;) ... Actually, I completely agree. My question, though, is how to tell people in a polite manner. I can t
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 7, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 historian@... wrote:

            > The fact that this information on "Japanese persona makeup" is out
            > there on an SCA-linked website makes my skin crawl. Now wonder
            > the "main stream" SCA often thinks we're just a bunch of karate-movie
            > and anime-watching farbs...

            But I like watching karate-movies and anime! ;)

            > Fujiwara no Aoi
            > disgusted

            Actually, I completely agree. My question, though, is how to tell people
            in a polite manner. I can't tell you how many well-intentioned people
            have come up to me to show me how it's done and thrown the infamous
            'Folkwear' pattern in my face. I need to find some polite way of telling
            them that they are mistaken in a way that won't have them go 'oh, he's
            just a period-n@$!*, those people are just there to ruin our fun.' Any
            tips would be helpful.

            Of course, we could also fight fire with fire and start wearing 18th and
            19th century European clothes to the Western events. Hey, it's European,
            isn't it?


            -Ii Saburou

            *PSRant: Personally, I find any mention of a 'period-nazi' an offensive
            term anyway. For one, it draws its power and image from a horrendous act
            and seems to trivialize the Nazi attrocities by using them as almost a
            joke. Second of all, we don't need words that create more stereotypes for
            people to use as labels and excuses. If someone is rude, we have a word
            for that; we call them a rude person.
          • historian@reconstructinghistory.com
            ... Well, yeah, me too, Ii-dono. But a place for everything... ... people ... people ... telling ... he s ... Any ... I have this problem all the time. I
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 8, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              > But I like watching karate-movies and anime! ;)

              Well, yeah, me too, Ii-dono. But a place for everything...

              > Actually, I completely agree. My question, though, is how to tell
              people
              > in a polite manner. I can't tell you how many well-intentioned
              people
              > have come up to me to show me how it's done and thrown the infamous
              > 'Folkwear' pattern in my face. I need to find some polite way of
              telling
              > them that they are mistaken in a way that won't have them go 'oh,
              he's
              > just a period-n@$!*, those people are just there to ruin our fun.'
              Any
              > tips would be helpful.

              I have this problem all the time. I mean, what do you say to someone
              who is wearing a modern kimono and obi and chopsticks in her
              hair? "You stupid woman! Open a book!" just doesn't have the
              desired effect... ;)

              Once I was struggling to get through a narrow path between Western
              tables and a well-intentioned lady said to me, "You should kick your
              kimono out of your way, my dear. Have you never worn proper
              kimono?" I can only hope that my whiteface covered the fact that I
              was red with anger! But I recognized that she was well-intentioned
              and I ingored her ignorance.

              When I encounter people who are uninformed or misinformed, the first
              thing I evaluate is "are they worth saving?" Some people just want
              to spout their "knowledge" and it really doesn't matter to them if
              they're right or wrong. The answer to this type is, "Thank you,
              milord. I will keep that in mind."

              But sometimes you will meet someone who is asking the right questions
              or strikes you as having an open mind. With that person, you
              say, "You know, the Folkwear patterns are actually a modern design.
              Let me explain to you the differences between modern and period
              Japanese clothing."

              Some people want to argue (that's what I start quoting, "Well Baron
              Master Edward of Effingham says..."). Some people want to learn. I
              think our job is to educate the ones who want to learn. The people
              who want to be jerks... let 'em.

              > Of course, we could also fight fire with fire and start wearing
              18th and
              > 19th century European clothes to the Western events. Hey, it's
              European,
              > isn't it?

              As much as I'd love the reactions we'd get <GRIN>, it would only
              serve one purpose -- to prove to people that we are not interested in
              being SCA period-accurate at all, therefore reinforcing their bias
              against us. Great visual though! =)

              > *PSRant: Personally, I find any mention of a 'period-nazi' an
              offensive
              > term anyway. For one, it draws its power and image from a
              horrendous act
              > and seems to trivialize the Nazi attrocities by using them as
              almost a
              > joke. Second of all, we don't need words that create more
              stereotypes for
              > people to use as labels and excuses. If someone is rude, we have a
              word
              > for that; we call them a rude person.

              I concurr. I offended you, Ii-dono, I apologize. I use the word to
              indicate what people sometimes say about me (mistakenly, of course).
              Personally, I consider myself an "authenticist". I generally don't
              care if anyone else wants to be authentic or not. But I encourage
              authenticity wherever I go and I reward it whenever I see it. And if
              people are giving out bad information, I do my best to stop them and
              give out good information instead. But frankly, if everyone was
              running around in period-perfect Japanese, who would even know who I
              was? =)

              Kass
              aka Fujiwara no Aoi
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... Mistress Nicolaa uses the term Garb Snark for such people. I like that... Effingham
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 9, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Joshua Badgley wrote:

                > *PSRant: Personally, I find any mention of a 'period-nazi' an offensive
                > term anyway. For one, it draws its power and image from a horrendous act
                > and seems to trivialize the Nazi attrocities by using them as almost a
                > joke. Second of all, we don't need words that create more stereotypes for
                > people to use as labels and excuses. If someone is rude, we have a word
                > for that; we call them a rude person.

                Mistress Nicolaa uses the term "Garb Snark" for such people. I like that...


                Effingham
              • Craig Gehlert III
                ... yes but wouldn t it be just as fare to see that that term might offend the sharks? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 11, 2001
                • 0 Attachment


                  >Mistress Nicolaa uses the term "Garb Snark" for such people. I like that...
                  >
                  yes but wouldn't it be just as fare to see that that term might offend the sharks?


                  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.