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Uwagi colors

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  • aoyama02
    I read in Kass McGann s notes for her Heian Informal Robes pattern that uwagi colors are determined by rank. If so, what would be an appropriate uwagi color
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013

      I read in Kass McGann's notes for her Heian Informal Robes pattern that uwagi colors are determined by rank.  If so, what would be an appropriate uwagi color for someone with an AoA (Sho hachi-i--Senior eighth court rank)?

       

      Aoyama

    • LJonthebay
      It s not terribly clear. The period source we have kasane information from was a cheat sheet for the Empress. SHE gets to wear murasaki and kurenai. I should
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013
        It's not terribly clear. The period source we have kasane information from was a cheat sheet for the Empress. SHE gets to wear murasaki and kurenai.

        I should think anything that's not murasaki (purple) or kurenai (red) and that goes with the kasane you've chosen would do.

        If you don't have it, try to get your hands on a copy of Dalby's Kimono: Fashioning Culture. Reading her chapter on kasane no irome made the lightbulbs go on for me.

        Saionji no Hana, West
      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Out of curiosity, is this for a man or a woman? Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013
          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!

          I read in Kass McGann's notes for her Heian Informal Robes pattern that uwagi colors are determined by rank.  If so, what would be an appropriate uwagi color for someone with an AoA (Sho hachi-i--Senior eighth court rank)?

          Out of curiosity, is this for a man or a woman?

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar

        • m_martin85
          I have a question about kurenai...even though the kurenai red was a forbidden color, other reds, like suou, don t seem to be off-limits. Was there a particular
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013
            I have a question about kurenai...even though the kurenai red was a forbidden color, other reds, like suou, don't seem to be off-limits. Was there a particular dye formula or ingredient used to create kurenai that was exclusive to the upper ranks, or was it just a very particular shade of red and the different grades of that color? Same thing with murasaki...was it was particular sort of purple, or were all purples, like usu iro (usually interpreted as lavendar) also off-limits?
          • LJonthebay
            The short answer is that the dyes used for both kurenai and murasaki don t wear well, being prone to fading. Kass McGann has a very nice article about the
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013
              The short answer is that the dyes used for both kurenai and murasaki don't "wear" well, being prone to fading.
              Kass McGann has a very nice article about the dyes used to create those forbidden colors at http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/articles/japanese-articles/japanese-dyestuffs.html

              Saionji no Hana, West
            • m_martin85
              Very interesting article, thank you for pointing me toward it! I m still unclear about the reds, though. I ve only seen kuranai listed as a forbidden color,
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013

                Very interesting article, thank you for pointing me toward it! I'm still unclear about the reds, though. I've only seen kuranai listed as a forbidden color, but all the reds seem to be made from the same dyestuffs. O.o Should I stay on the safe side and just avoid any sort of red altogether, or are suou/kobai/shuu/etc still okay?



                (Also, sorry for hijacking your thread Aoyama! Your uwagi color question just got me to wondering....)


              • LJonthebay
                No, kurenai is made from a specific plant: safflower Carthamus tinctorius L. That s the one you have to avoid and it s a scarlet (orangy range of reds) or
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013
                  No, kurenai is made from a specific plant: safflower Carthamus tinctorius L. That's the one you have to avoid and it's a scarlet (orangy range of reds) or scarlet-pink.

                  I think you'd be safe with suo, which is more toward the purple-red.

                  Saionji no Hana
                • m_martin85
                  Ah, okay, great! I guess I misunderstood, I thought all the reds were derived from safflower. XP Thanks for clarifying, and hooray! I can wear red! ---In
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 25, 2013

                    Ah, okay, great! I guess I misunderstood, I thought all the reds were derived from safflower. XP Thanks for clarifying, and hooray! I can wear red!



                    ---In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    No, kurenai is made from a specific plant: safflower Carthamus tinctorius L. That's the one you have to avoid and it's a scarlet (orangy range of reds) or scarlet-pink.

                    I think you'd be safe with suo, which is more toward the purple-red.

                    Saionji no Hana
                  • aoyama02
                    I m asking for myself, so it would be for a woman. Aoyama ... Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I read in Kass McGann s notes for her Heian Informal Robes
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013

                       I'm asking for myself, so it would be for a woman.  Aoyama



                      ---In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Noble Cousin!

                      Greetings from Solveig!

                      I read in Kass McGann's notes for her Heian Informal Robes pattern that uwagi colors are determined by rank.  If so, what would be an appropriate uwagi color for someone with an AoA (Sho hachi-i--Senior eighth court rank)?

                      Out of curiosity, is this for a man or a woman?

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar

                    • aoyama02
                      I do have Dalby s Kimono , and have been looking at it constantly. She says that true red (ake) is for fourth rank and that midori green was a sixth rank
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013

                         

                        I do have Dalby's "Kimono", and have been looking at it constantly.  She says that true red (ake) is for fourth rank and that midori green was a sixth rank color, but not used for kasane (p.257), but so far that's the most I've found on colors and rank.  I know to stay away from red and purple, I was unsure about green, whether or not that would be okay.  Or if maroon would "read" like red or purple.
                         
                        Aoyama
                        ---In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        It's not terribly clear. The period source we have kasane information from was a cheat sheet for the Empress. SHE gets to wear murasaki and kurenai.

                        I should think anything that's not murasaki (purple) or kurenai (red) and that goes with the kasane you've chosen would do.

                        If you don't have it, try to get your hands on a copy of Dalby's Kimono: Fashioning Culture. Reading her chapter on kasane no irome made the lightbulbs go on for me.

                        Saionji no Hana, West
                      • aoyama02
                        ... (Also, sorry for hijacking your thread Aoyam a ! Your uwagi color question just got me to wondering....) No problem--I love it when I ask a question and it
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 26, 2013

                           



                          ---In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



                          (Also, sorry for hijacking your thread Aoyama! Your uwagi color question just got me to wondering....)

                          No problem--I love it when I ask a question and it gets a good discussion going.  If it helps people other than myself, so much the better :)

                           

                          Aoyama

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