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RE: [SCA-JML] Re: Given name

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  • russ register
    well I am part japanese and you should ask a japanese I hate hearing sca people buthcering names or not understand what names mean or the back ground or wrong
    Message 1 of 27 , Sep 11 9:13 AM
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      well I am part japanese and you should ask a japanese I hate hearing sca people buthcering names or not understand what names mean or the back ground or wrong mon for a last name og so bad
      or I was watching a lady point her chopstick stright up in her rice such a fopa
      ya thats for the dead
      huge insult
      i understand its a longing to be like but please ask a japanese person who follows the old ways and not insut or butchers this is not to harm but help but I have been in sca long time on and off and always haters who HATE CHANGE 

      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
      From: takedasakura@...
      Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 05:40:54 -0500
      Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Given name

       
      Thank you so much for the list of names, they got me started in the right direction. So, they are greatly appreciated! I have some more questions. How would one pronounce: The given names Suke / Sukeko, Tashi and the surname Asakura? I ran across historical figures with these names, but can't find Japanese pronunciations for them.

      Also, can anyone help me document the name Ryûzô (Ryuzo) for my husband. We used http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/names.html to find it, but it was returned saying "Sengokudaimyo is not sufficient documentation by itself as there are no dates to given to prove the given name was used during our time." Any help there would be fantastic.

      Thank you again for the help!
      _________
      Takeda Sakura
      Webminister: Crimson River


    • daironwrath
      Funny you should say that, Russ Register, because I am of French heritage and it is very insulting and culturally insensitive to me when you write faux pas
      Message 2 of 27 , Sep 12 3:25 AM
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        Funny you should say that, Russ Register, because I am of French heritage and it is very insulting and culturally insensitive to me when you write "faux pas" as "fopa". Pehaps you should take your own advice and consult with a French person before appropriating their phrases. Or just be a little more tolerant of people who are doing the best they can with the resources available to them in their attempt to HAVE FUN in this GAME we all love.
      • Bolline
        longing to be like you think a lot of your self Russ Register. I butcher a lot of languages and cultures and I can t say I have a longing. Did you bother to
        Message 3 of 27 , Sep 12 4:30 AM
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          "longing to be like" you think a lot of your self Russ Register. I butcher a lot of languages and cultures and I can't say I have a longing. Did you bother to explain to the lady about the rice if she is not Japanese than that is not a tradition she follows. 

          99.9 % German and I only speaks a word or two. 

          Kendall

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Sep 12, 2013, at 5:25 AM, <pleaserescuecooper@...> wrote:

           

          Funny you should say that, Russ Register, because I am of French heritage and it is very insulting and culturally insensitive to me when you write "faux pas" as "fopa". Pehaps you should take your own advice and consult with a French person before appropriating their phrases. Or just be a little more tolerant of people who are doing the best they can with the resources available to them in their attempt to HAVE FUN in this GAME we all love.

        • LJonthebay
          Moderator note: Please keep your posts to one another polite. It s all too easy for internet communication to be misread and taken offense at because tone of
          Message 4 of 27 , Sep 12 7:23 AM
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            Moderator note: Please keep your posts to one another polite. It's all too easy for internet communication to be misread and taken offense at because tone of voice and body language are missing.

            Regarding pronunciation, did you know that Google Translate often includes audio so you can hear how a word is pronounced? Just look for the "speaker" icon under the translated word or phrase. http://translate.google.com/

            I've also picked up a little bit simply from watching Japanese films. I desperately need English subtitles, but I'm at the point where I can usually pick out names from the rest, plus those words I already know.

            Saionji no Hana, Pacific Timezone Moderator
          • LJonthebay
            I have just been forced to delete a post from the list and issue a warning to the poster. If you cannot keep things civil, you will be placed on moderated
            Message 5 of 27 , Sep 12 9:01 AM
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              I have just been forced to delete a post from the list and issue a warning to the poster.

              If you cannot keep things civil, you will be placed on moderated status. If you are repeatedly and deliberately obnoxious, you will be removed from the group. There's a difference between spirited intellectual debate and a flame war.

              I suggest everyone calm down and have a cup of tea.

              Saionji no Hana, Pacific Timezone Moderator

              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "LJonthebay" <wodeford@...> wrote:
              >
              > Moderator note: Please keep your posts to one another polite. It's all too easy for internet communication to be misread and taken offense at because tone of voice and body language are missing.
            • Sakura Takeda
              Thank you again for the pronunciation Solveig. You have been a lot of help. ... Between Solveig s help and finally finding some audio of a Japanese person
              Message 6 of 27 , Sep 12 5:35 PM
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                Thank you again for the pronunciation Solveig. You have been a lot of help.

                Japanese vowels sound like Spanish vowels:
                A as in the A in swat or the AU in caught
                I as in the E in beet or sweet
                U as in the U in lute or the OO in boot
                E as in the E in bet or met
                O as in the O in boat or more

                Between Solveig's help and finally finding some audio of a Japanese person pronouncing Suke, I think I have made my decision to go with Sakurai Sukeko as it is as close to keeping Sakura in the name as I seem to be able to do. 

                So, now, what I want to know is what is the easiest way to document the name of an existing historical figure? I'm only going to use the given name, not the entire name. I found the name listed twice on the list of nyoin on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nyoin 

                Inbu-mon In (殷富門院): Imperial Princess Sukeko (亮子内親王) (1147-1216) - mother-in-law(准母) of Emperor Antoku and Emperor Go-Toba
                and
                Kōhan-mon In (光範門院): Fujiwara no Sukeko (藤原資子) (1384-1440) - consort of Emperor Go-Komatsu (mother of Emperor Shōkō)

                I don't think I can use wikipedia as a source and I have poured over my local library with no success on finding mentions of these figures in books. So, can anyone help me out on a way to document to either document these figures or the name itself?

                Thanks again everyone

                _________
                Takeda Sakura
                Webminister: Crimson River

              • Sakura Takeda
                I got a reply on Facebook on documenting my name, so I wanted to say never mind on my last e-mail. Thanks very much to Saionji no Hana for the assist.
                Message 7 of 27 , Sep 12 9:55 PM
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                  I got a reply on Facebook on documenting my name, so I wanted to say never mind on my last e-mail. Thanks very much to Saionji no Hana for the assist.

                  _________
                  Takeda Sakura
                  Webminister: Crimson River

                • Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
                  ... Also keep in mind that nicknames are wonderful things (even in period), and that saying ...but my friends call me Sakura is charming. -- THL Ishiyama
                  Message 8 of 27 , Sep 13 4:06 AM
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                    Takeda Sakura wrote:
                    > Between Solveig's help and finally finding some audio of a Japanese
                    > person pronouncing Suke, I think I have made my decision to go with
                    > Sakurai Sukeko as it is as close to keeping Sakura in the name as I
                    > seem to be able to do.

                    Also keep in mind that nicknames are wonderful things (even in period),
                    and that saying "...but my friends call me Sakura" is charming.

                    --
                    THL Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
                    (mka: Elliott C. Evans)
                    ishiyama@...
                  • Sakurái no Jirou Takéo
                    Yeah, everyone calls me Saki because it s easier to remember.  ;-) Lord Sakurái no Jirou Takéo Kingdom of Calontir Barony of Forgotten Sea Canton of Aston
                    Message 9 of 27 , Sep 13 4:09 AM
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                      Yeah, everyone calls me Saki because it's easier to remember. ;-)

                      Lord Sakurái no Jirou Takéo
                      Kingdom of Calontir
                      Barony of Forgotten Sea
                      Canton of Aston Tor
                      Champagne Players



                      From: Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie <ishiyama@...>;
                      To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>;
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Given name
                      Sent: Fri, Sep 13, 2013 11:06:56 AM

                       

                      Takeda Sakura wrote:

                      > Between Solveig's help and finally finding some audio of a Japanese
                      > person pronouncing Suke, I think I have made my decision to go with
                      > Sakurai Sukeko as it is as close to keeping Sakura in the name as I
                      > seem to be able to do.

                      Also keep in mind that nicknames are wonderful things (even in period),
                      and that saying "...but my friends call me Sakura" is charming.

                      --
                      THL Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
                      (mka: Elliott C. Evans)
                      ishiyama@...

                    • LJonthebay
                      ... You re welcome. (In case anyone cares, I provided page numbers from NCMJ.) Saionji no Hana, West Kingdom
                      Message 10 of 27 , Sep 13 6:07 AM
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                        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Sakura Takeda <takedasakura@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I got a reply on Facebook on documenting my name, so I wanted to say never mind on my last e-mail. Thanks very much to Saionji no Hana for the assist.

                        You're welcome. (In case anyone cares, I provided page numbers from NCMJ.)

                        Saionji no Hana, West Kingdom
                      • rjb@ns.sympatico.ca
                        wow I suppose you beat your kids and kick you dogs too for helping and the dog getting in the way slap you self and commit�self infelicted death over dishonor
                        Message 11 of 27 , Sep 13 9:27 AM
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                          "wow I suppose you beat your kids and kick you dogs too for helping and the dog getting in the way
                          slap you self and commit self infelicted death over dishonor to you ancestorys"
                           
                          Really, was THAT necessary? I can understand being upset because people took what you said the wrong way. But accusing people of child abuse and telling them to kill themselves is WAY over the line. It's not okay at all.
                           
                          -Aimee aka Hirokawa No Tsuru
                        • Solveig Throndardottir
                          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Unfortunately, I do not believe that the College of Arms accepts Wikipedia articles. Fortunately, Sukeko 資子
                          Message 12 of 27 , Sep 13 10:29 AM
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                            Noble Cousin!

                            Greetings from Solveig!

                            So, now, what I want to know is what is the easiest way to document the name of an existing historical figure? I'm only going to use the given name, not the entire name. I found the name listed twice on the list of nyoin on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nyoin 

                            Inbu-mon In (殷富門院): Imperial Princess Sukeko (亮子内親王) (1147-1216) - mother-in-law(准母) of Emperor Antoku and Emperor Go-Toba
                            and
                            Kōhan-mon In (光範門院): Fujiwara no Sukeko (藤原資子) (1384-1440) - consort of Emperor Go-Komatsu (mother of Emperor Shōkō)

                            Unfortunately, I do not believe that the College of Arms accepts Wikipedia articles. Fortunately, Sukeko 資子 appears in NCMJ. So you cite NCMJ as follows:

                            Sakurai 桜井 (1482) NCMJ Rev Ed pg. 325
                            Sukeko 資子 (1384) NCMJ Rev Ed pg. 305

                            NCMJ is on the no photocopy list so pretty much all you need to do is cite the entries from NCMJ and note that Sakurai is a family name and Sukeko is a given name.

                            Note. Sakura'i also appears in the table of ancient uji on page 396 or NCMJ Rev. Ed. So it is a very distinguished family. 

                            Your Humble Servant
                            Solveig Throndardottir
                            Amateur Scholar

                          • Solveig Throndardottir
                            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Unfortunately, I do not believe that the College of Arms accepts Wikipedia articles. Fortunately, Sukeko 資子
                            Message 13 of 27 , Sep 13 10:37 AM
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                              Noble Cousin!

                              Greetings from Solveig!

                              So, now, what I want to know is what is the easiest way to document the name of an existing historical figure? I'm only going to use the given name, not the entire name. I found the name listed twice on the list of nyoin on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nyoin 

                              Inbu-mon In (殷富門院): Imperial Princess Sukeko (亮子内親王) (1147-1216) - mother-in-law(准母) of Emperor Antoku and Emperor Go-Toba
                              and
                              Kōhan-mon In (光範門院): Fujiwara no Sukeko (藤原資子) (1384-1440) - consort of Emperor Go-Komatsu (mother of Emperor Shōkō)

                              Unfortunately, I do not believe that the College of Arms accepts Wikipedia articles. Fortunately, Sukeko 資子 appears in NCMJ. So you cite NCMJ as follows:

                              Sakurai 桜井 (1482) NCMJ Rev Ed pg. 325
                              Sukeko 資子 (1384) NCMJ Rev Ed pg. 305

                              NCMJ is on the no photocopy list so pretty much all you need to do is cite the entries from NCMJ and note that Sakurai is a family name and Sukeko is a given name.

                              Note. Sakura'i also appears in the table of ancient uji on page 396 or NCMJ Rev. Ed. So it is a very distinguished family. 

                              Your Humble Servant
                              Solveig Throndardottir
                              Amateur Scholar

                            • LJonthebay
                              The poster has been put on moderated status and given a warning. Saionji no Hana, Pacific Time Zone Moderator
                              Message 14 of 27 , Sep 13 11:54 AM
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                                The poster has been put on moderated status and given a warning.

                                Saionji no Hana, Pacific Time Zone Moderator
                              • Solveig Throndardottir
                                Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! I have no idea how long this has been sitting in my drafts folder. I hope that it is helpful to somebody. An abbreviated
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 2, 2014
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                                  An abbreviated list of Azuchi-Momoya Feminine Given Names found in 『日本の女性名』by 角田 文衞 ISBN 4336047456 :

                                  Acha 阿茶              
                                  Achacha 阿茶茶
                                  Achao 阿茶阿
                                  Ago あ五
                                  Agogo あ五五
                                  Ai あい
                                  Akaka あかか
                                  Ako 阿子
                                  Akoko あここ
                                  Aya あや
                                  Ayamachi あやまち
                                  Ayaya あやや
                                  Chacha 茶々
                                  Chibo ちぼ
                                  Chii ちいい
                                  Chima ちま
                                  Chiyaa ちやあ
                                  Chiyago ちやご
                                  Chiyo 千代
                                  Chiyobo ちよぼ
                                  Fuku 福
                                  Furu 振
                                  Gomoji 五もじ
                                  Haru 春
                                  Higashi 東
                                  Ia いあ
                                  Ichi 市
                                  Ichiya いちや
                                  Ichiyako いちや子
                                  Ima いま
                                  Ima'aki いまあき
                                  Inaka いなか
                                  Ishi 石
                                  Ishikame 石か女
                                  Ito いと
                                  Itoito いといと
                                  Itoko いと子
                                  Iya いや
                                  Kaka かか
                                  Kame 龜
                                  Kii きい
                                  Kiku 菊
                                  Kita 北
                                  Kiyaku きやく
                                  Kogou こ五う
                                  Koito こいと
                                  Koko ここ
                                  Kou こう
                                  Koya こや
                                  Koyaya こやや
                                  Kuri くり
                                  Kurikaka くりかか
                                  Matsu 松
                                  Muku むく
                                  Mume 梅
                                  Natsu 夏
                                  Nene 禰々
                                  Nishi 西
                                  Riri 里々 
                                  Sako さこ
                                  Sashi さし
                                  Shiyaa しやあ
                                  Tama 玉
                                  Tau たう
                                  Toku 徳
                                  Tomo とも
                                  Tsuru 鶴
                                  Uba うば
                                  Uta うた
                                  Yasha 夜叉
                                  Yaya やや
                                  Yayacha やや茶
                                  Yayame 彌々女
                                  夜叉千

                                  Your Humble Servant
                                  Solveig Throndardottir
                                  Amateur Scholar

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