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Re: japanese name structure

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  • tiberianmagic2004
    so that individual would be called by there personal name?
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 14, 2012
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      so that individual would be called by there personal name?

      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "LJonthebay" <wodeford@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "tiberianmagic2004" <tristansoucis@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Basically an example of a name from the past split into different sections would be a great way for me to understand how I should fully set this up
      >
      > Most historical personages will be referred to by surname - personal name. You don't always see the zokumyo (birth order name).
      >
      > Here's a men's name belonging to one of our list members:
      >
      > Ii (surname/myoji) Saburou (birth order name/zokumyo) Katsumori (adult personal name/nanori). Surname goes first.
      >
      > Does that help at all?
      >
      > Saionji (surname) no Hana (lowly female personal name)
      > West Kingdom
      >
    • LJonthebay
      ... The convention among Japanese personae in the SCA is to address someone a bit more formally by surname with honorific. I would address him as Ii-dono (Lord
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 14, 2012
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        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "tiberianmagic2004" <tristansoucis@...> wrote:
        >
        > so that individual would be called by there personal name?

        The convention among Japanese personae in the SCA is to address someone a bit more formally by surname with honorific. I would address him as Ii-dono (Lord Ii) or even more formally as Shonagon-dono (Master Ii's a member of the Order of the Pelican). If you have a more casual relationship with someone you can certainly permit them to address you by a personal name, nickname or even diminutive form of your name (e.g., Hiro instead of Hiromasa).

        When I was asked to serve on a royal court and realized a whole bunch of people who didn't know me very well were going to have to be able to call on me by something easy to say and remember, I told them all to call me Hana.

        Correct name structure of something unique to you and historically plausible is important if you want to register a name with the College of Heralds. Ultimately you can call yourself anything you want.

        Saionji no Hana
        West Kingdom
      • Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
        I ve been using the following reference for myself. If I m wrong on any of this, I d appreciate any corrections. My registered name is: Ishiyama Gen tarou
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 15, 2012
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          I've been using the following reference for myself. If I'm wrong on
          any of this, I'd appreciate any corrections.

          My registered name is:

          Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie

          My full name with title is:

          Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie roku-i

          That breaks down to:

          Ishiyama (family name - indicating "Stone Mountain" family)
          Gen'tarou (yobina - I am the first son)
          Yori'ie (nanori - personal name)

          roku-i (title - essentially THL, Senior sixth rank, ordered OHM)

          I would be called into court by:

          Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie roku-i

          The Honorable Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie

          Formally, people would call me:

          Ishiyama roku-i (Honorable Lord Ishiyama)

          Ishiyama-dono (Lord Ishiyama)

          Roku-i-dono (Your Lordship)

          Sensei (Teacher, if I am teaching a class)

          Ojousama (Milord, only by speakers of lower rank than I am)

          Danna (Milord, only used by speakers of lower rank than I am)

          Informally:

          Ishiyama (friends, householders)

          Yori'ie (close friends, householders, and family)

          Gen'tarou (family, like calling me "brother" or "son")

          Some Nickname

          I'd also appreciate any additions if anybody has any. I'm curious what
          people might use to address me specifically as a craftsman who has not
          yet achieved master status. "Ishiyama-shokunin" seems a bit exalted.

          --
          THL Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
          (mka: Elliott C. Evans)
          ishiyama@...
        • tiberianmagic2004
          What references did you use for finding your name, if you understand what i mean? I just need info on how I am going to be able to document my name so it can
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 20, 2012
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            What references did you use for finding your name, if you understand what i mean? I just need info on how I am going to be able to document my name so it can pass

            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie <ishiyama@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I've been using the following reference for myself. If I'm wrong on
            > any of this, I'd appreciate any corrections.
            >
            > My registered name is:
            >
            > Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
            >
            > My full name with title is:
            >
            > Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie roku-i
            >
            > That breaks down to:
            >
            > Ishiyama (family name - indicating "Stone Mountain" family)
            > Gen'tarou (yobina - I am the first son)
            > Yori'ie (nanori - personal name)
            >
            > roku-i (title - essentially THL, Senior sixth rank, ordered OHM)
            >
            > I would be called into court by:
            >
            > Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie roku-i
            >
            > The Honorable Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
            >
            > Formally, people would call me:
            >
            > Ishiyama roku-i (Honorable Lord Ishiyama)
            >
            > Ishiyama-dono (Lord Ishiyama)
            >
            > Roku-i-dono (Your Lordship)
            >
            > Sensei (Teacher, if I am teaching a class)
            >
            > Ojousama (Milord, only by speakers of lower rank than I am)
            >
            > Danna (Milord, only used by speakers of lower rank than I am)
            >
            > Informally:
            >
            > Ishiyama (friends, householders)
            >
            > Yori'ie (close friends, householders, and family)
            >
            > Gen'tarou (family, like calling me "brother" or "son")
            >
            > Some Nickname
            >
            > I'd also appreciate any additions if anybody has any. I'm curious what
            > people might use to address me specifically as a craftsman who has not
            > yet achieved master status. "Ishiyama-shokunin" seems a bit exalted.
            >
            > --
            > THL Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
            > (mka: Elliott C. Evans)
            > ishiyama@...
            >
          • Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
            ... I did not pick a name first and then start researching. I used the SengokuDaimyo web site as a reference to choose a name, and the Naming Conventions in
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 20, 2012
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              tiberianmagic2004 wrote:
              > What references did you use for finding your name, if you understand
              > what i mean? I just need info on how I am going to be able to
              > document my name so it can pass

              I did not pick a name first and then start researching. I used the SengokuDaimyo web site as a reference to choose a name, and the Naming Conventions in Medieval Japan book to refine and document it. If you pick your name from a list of names that has already been researched, you will have far fewer problems.

              The household I am in camps at Pennsic with the same group as Lady Solveig, and she was kind enough to help me utilize the NCMJ and fill out my submission forms.

              It still took about a year for the paperwork to be processed by the perennially overworked volunteers in the College of Heralds, but there were no difficulties.

              --
              The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
              (m.k.a. Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)
              ishiyama@...
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