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A question of time??

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  • Eudorus
    Greetings friends, I have an odd question. if I might post it here as I am aware that there are many wise and knowledgeable persons on this AWESOME group. I am
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
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      Greetings friends,

      I have an odd question. if I might post it here as I am aware that there are many wise and knowledgeable persons on this AWESOME group.
      I am curious as to the earliest record denim use in japan, during period.My lady and I were having a lovely discussion about it.

      Any Help would be VERY appreciated.

      With Honor and Respect,

      Noriyama Ono Doken,
      Sargent,
      Yeoman,
      Squire.
    • JL Badgley
      How do you classify denim? Heavy cotton fabric? Sailcloth? -Josh ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
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        How do you classify denim? Heavy cotton fabric? Sailcloth?

        -Josh
        On Mar 2, 2012 10:14 PM, "Eudorus" <samuraidragonflytiger@...> wrote:

        > Greetings friends,
        >
        > I have an odd question. if I might post it here as I am aware that there
        > are many wise and knowledgeable persons on this AWESOME group.
        > I am curious as to the earliest record denim use in japan, during
        > period.My lady and I were having a lovely discussion about it.
        >
        > Any Help would be VERY appreciated.
        >
        > With Honor and Respect,
        >
        > Noriyama Ono Doken,
        > Sargent,
        > Yeoman,
        > Squire.
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • fuzzywonder@hotmail.com
        heavy cotton indigo dye Sent from my LG phone
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
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          heavy cotton indigo dye
          Sent from my LG phone

          JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:

          >How do you classify denim? Heavy cotton fabric? Sailcloth?
          >
          >-Josh
          >On Mar 2, 2012 10:14 PM, "Eudorus" <samuraidragonflytiger@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Greetings friends,
          >>
          >> I have an odd question. if I might post it here as I am aware that there
          >> are many wise and knowledgeable persons on this AWESOME group.
          >> I am curious as to the earliest record denim use in japan, during
          >> period.My lady and I were having a lovely discussion about it.
          >>
          >> Any Help would be VERY appreciated.
          >>
          >> With Honor and Respect,
          >>
          >> Noriyama Ono Doken,
          >> Sargent,
          >> Yeoman,
          >> Squire.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • LJonthebay
          ... Of possible interest: http://www.levistrauss.com/sites/default/files/librarydocument/2010/4/History-Denim.pdf The Japanese had indigo, they had cotton, but
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
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            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Eudorus" <samuraidragonflytiger@...> wrote:

            > I am curious as to the earliest record denim use in japan, during period.My lady and I were having a lovely discussion about it.

            Of possible interest:

            http://www.levistrauss.com/sites/default/files/librarydocument/2010/4/History-Denim.pdf

            The Japanese had indigo, they had cotton, but that doesn't necessarily equal "denim" existing in Japan before 1600. If they were going to the trouble of yarn-dyeing before weaving, it would likely be woven into a kasuri (a type of ikat), rather than a plain blue/white twill. Do an image search on "kasuri" if you don't know what it looks like. The technique dates back to the Nara period, at least.

            And on that note, may I present this brain-cramper:
            http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishiguro/6363172/
            (Silk is heavy enough, but DENIM????)

            Saionji Shonagon
            West Kingdom
          • KATYA GILLEY
            Thank you for such a quick and lovely response,the article was very enjoyable,(live in Levis since I could walk),and I want to make a period garb out of as
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 2, 2012
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              Thank you for such a quick and lovely response,the article was very enjoyable,(live in Levis since I could walk),and I want to make a period garb out of as close as possible to "jeans" as I could get,you have given me excellent food for thought!you have my respect and smiles!!

              Noriyama Ono Doken
              Clan Chief

              Tribe of the Dark Order

               
              From  Eudorus son of Theognis, Spartan
              Never Mistake My Compassion For Weakness!



              ________________________________
              From: LJonthebay <wodeford@...>
              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 10:38 PM
              Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: A question of time??


               


              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Eudorus" <samuraidragonflytiger@...> wrote:

              > I am curious as to the earliest record denim use in japan, during period.My lady and I were having a lovely discussion about it.

              Of possible interest:

              http://www.levistrauss.com/sites/default/files/librarydocument/2010/4/History-Denim.pdf

              The Japanese had indigo, they had cotton, but that doesn't necessarily equal "denim" existing in Japan before 1600. If they were going to the trouble of yarn-dyeing before weaving, it would likely be woven into a kasuri (a type of ikat), rather than a plain blue/white twill. Do an image search on "kasuri" if you don't know what it looks like. The technique dates back to the Nara period, at least.

              And on that note, may I present this brain-cramper:
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishiguro/6363172/
              (Silk is heavy enough, but DENIM????)

              Saionji Shonagon
              West Kingdom




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • LJonthebay
              ... Goodness, why? Isn t the point of all this to get to be larger than life a few hours a week and wear something you DON T normally wear? It is for me.
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 3, 2012
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                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, KATYA GILLEY <samuraidragonflytiger@...> wrote:
                > I want to make a period garb out of as close as possible to "jeans" as I could get,you have given me excellent food for thought!

                Goodness, why? Isn't the point of all this to get to be larger than life a few hours a week and wear something you DON'T normally wear?
                It is for me. (Though it was pretty funny the other night when I took some friends over to watch fight practice and the fighter I introduced them to didn't recognize me right away because I was wearing jeans and a storm coat instead of Japanese dress.)

                Saionji Shonagon, here for the pretties,
                West Kingdom
              • KATYA GILLEY
                It is very simple, I once didn t cover up to well in court( albeit a small court), And my Knight gave me a stern but loving talking to! Shortly thereafter he
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 3, 2012
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                  It is very simple, I once didn't cover up to well in court( albeit a small court), And my Knight gave me a stern but loving talking to! Shortly thereafter he wore black jeans, I desire simple to go over the top in as evilly period way ,as I might to make this Very kind man Smile,
                  Now the have stepped down from their Baronial duties!!!! I love wearing non traditional garb!!!
                  If it were uo to me Id wear nothing but kilts and Kimono all the time. Also I Play as a Spartan warrior,because the comfortable garb!!!
                  WELL AND THE KILLER FIGHTING!!!!!
                  Thank you ever so much!

                  Noriyama Ono Doken
                  AKA
                  Eudorus of Sparta

                  RAIN OR SUNSHINE IS OF NO MATTER,THEIR HONOR IS GREATER THAN THEIR MOOD.

                  WECK UP TO THEES!!!

                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  From: wodeford@...
                  Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 15:57:07 +0000
                  Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: A question of time??
































                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, KATYA GILLEY <samuraidragonflytiger@...> wrote:

                  > I want to make a period garb out of as close as possible to "jeans" as I could get,you have given me excellent food for thought!



                  Goodness, why? Isn't the point of all this to get to be larger than life a few hours a week and wear something you DON'T normally wear?

                  It is for me. (Though it was pretty funny the other night when I took some friends over to watch fight practice and the fighter I introduced them to didn't recognize me right away because I was wearing jeans and a storm coat instead of Japanese dress.)



                  Saionji Shonagon, here for the pretties,

                  West Kingdom


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • LJonthebay
                  ... Personally, I prefer doing Japanese better than the 99% in European dress, that the barbarians must lift their jaws from the floor with both hands and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 4, 2012
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                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, KATYA GILLEY <fuzzywonder@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > It is very simple, I once didn't cover up to well in court( albeit a small court), And my Knight gave me a stern but loving talking to! Shortly thereafter he wore black jeans, I desire simple to go over the top in as evilly period way ,as I might to make this Very kind man Smile,


                    Personally, I prefer doing Japanese better than the 99% in European dress, that the barbarians must lift their jaws from the floor with both hands and admit, "OK, that's pretty cool!"

                    Saionji no It Pays Off
                    West Kingdom
                  • fuzzywonder@hotmail.com
                    do you happen to know anything about the patchwork kimono and the stitching patterns that was used? and again my sincerest thanks Sent from my LG phone
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 4, 2012
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                      do you happen to know anything about the patchwork kimono and the stitching patterns that was used?
                      and again my sincerest thanks
                      Sent from my LG phone

                      LJonthebay <wodeford@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      >--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, KATYA GILLEY <fuzzywonder@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> It is very simple, I once didn't cover up to well in court( albeit a small court), And my Knight gave me a stern but loving talking to! Shortly thereafter he wore black jeans, I desire simple to go over the top in as evilly period way ,as I might to make this Very kind man Smile,
                      >
                      >
                      >Personally, I prefer doing Japanese better than the 99% in European dress, that the barbarians must lift their jaws from the floor with both hands and admit, "OK, that's pretty cool!"
                      >
                      >Saionji no It Pays Off
                      >West Kingdom
                      >
                    • LJonthebay
                      ... If you are referring to sachiko (the white stitching usually done on indigo), it s (a) post-SCA-period and (b) was used mainly to reinforce peasant work
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 4, 2012
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                        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "fuzzywonder@..." <fuzzywonder@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > do you happen to know anything about the patchwork kimono and the stitching patterns that was used?

                        If you are referring to sachiko (the white stitching usually done on indigo), it's (a) post-SCA-period and (b) was used mainly to reinforce peasant work clothing. (There is an 8th century textile in a museum that uses a similar technique, but that's the only period example I'm familiar with).

                        If you are referring to pieced garments, they were fashionable in the 16th century.
                        Some extant examples include the following:

                        http://wodefordhall.com/uesugikenshin.jpg
                        http://wodefordhall.com/patch.jpg
                        http://wodefordhall.com/patch.jpg

                        Saionji Shonagon
                        West Kingdom
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