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Hat help?

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  • Carey G
    I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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      I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3

      Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.

      Thanks
      Agnes
    • JL Badgley
      ... I m thinking it is a type of tokin (head cloth). My guess is that it is a rectangle with ties on both ends that tie together. The problem I run into is
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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        On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Carey G <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
        > I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3
        >
        > Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.

        I'm thinking it is a type of "tokin" (head cloth). My guess is that
        it is a rectangle with ties on both ends that tie together. The
        problem I run into is that there appear to only be two ties hanging
        down at the sides, when I would calculate there should be four. If I
        find anything more, I'll let you know.

        -Ii
      • Suzy Gillott
        The head wear in question looks an awful lot like the hat my Knight usually wears. I can t remember what he calls it, but I know his is made of 100% silk
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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          The head wear in question looks an awful lot like the hat my Knight usually wears. I can't remember what he calls it, but I know his is made of 100% silk velvet with a silk band at the bottom that wraps around the back of his head and ties. I will upload a pic of him wearing it to the files for the group. The pic is called Third Baron and he is in profile wearing a black kosode over red and a black hat with white band. Hope it helps.

          Lady Kate
          BLS


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • cookie
          I have posted a pic of my Knight, Sir Maikeru, wearing a hat that I believe is similar to what is depicted in the artwork. It is in the photos section under
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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            I have posted a pic of my Knight, Sir Maikeru, wearing a hat that I believe is similar to what is depicted in the artwork. It is in the photos section under House Sakura. I hope this helps. Let me know if you'd like more info on it.

            YIS,
            Lady Kate

            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Carey G <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
            > > I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3
            > >
            > > Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.
            >
          • LJonthebay
            ... Nope, that s an eboshi. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/Garb%20files/ includes a PDF pattern file for various eboshi types. I feel certain that
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "cookie" <cookiegoddess42@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have posted a pic of my Knight, Sir Maikeru, wearing a hat that I believe is similar to what is depicted in the artwork. It is in the photos section under House Sakura. I hope this helps. Let me know if you'd like more info on it.

              Nope, that's an eboshi. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/Garb%20files/ includes a PDF pattern file for various eboshi types.

              I feel certain that the women in the Maple Viewers are wearing some sort of head wrap. (Of course, this particular styles ISN'T in my book on hair and headwear!!!)
              http://www.tnm.jp/uploads/r_collection/LL_C0042444.jpg

              The "tails" might be achieved by using a separate strip of cloth, which might or might not be sewn to a larger rectangle covering the hair. Experimentation in front of a mirror is definitely called for...

              Saionji Shonagon
              West Kingdom
            • Carey G
              I wanted to thank everyone for their comments so far on this one. I will try to see what more I can find. I think the worst part is that the example has a bit
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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                I wanted to thank everyone for their comments so far on this one. I will try to see what more I can find. I think the worst part is that the example has a bit of damage on the two women who are apparently wearing the same head wear making it difficult to even guess at construction. I will share what I find if I find more. And of course I will happily welcome any more information that anyone else may find.
                Agnes

                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3
                >
                > Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.
                >
                > Thanks
                > Agnes
                >
              • Korinne Hamakawa
                **De-lurk mode** The central figures seem to be wearing this kind of wrapped headgear in Merrymaking under the Cherry Blossoms as well:
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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                  **De-lurk mode**

                  The central figures seem to be wearing this kind of wrapped headgear in
                  Merrymaking under the Cherry Blossoms as well:
                  http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100159/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=6

                  It looks like it is the same thing as what is worn by some ladies in Jidai
                  Matsuri parades, like this photo:
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/mavroumati/1736829852/

                  I too would love to know the proper term for it. Also, if it is one or
                  more pieces of fabric. Hopes this helps a little.


                  YIS,
                  Maeda Kiku


                  On 20 February 2012 15:13, Carey G <agnesvonh@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > I wanted to thank everyone for their comments so far on this one. I will
                  > try to see what more I can find. I think the worst part is that the example
                  > has a bit of damage on the two women who are apparently wearing the same
                  > head wear making it difficult to even guess at construction. I will share
                  > what I find if I find more. And of course I will happily welcome any more
                  > information that anyone else may find.
                  > Agnes
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in
                  > this painting
                  > http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3
                  > >
                  > > Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be
                  > found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks
                  > > Agnes
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • JL Badgley
                  On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Korinne Hamakawa ... I was almost thinking the same thing, though it isn t really a binan boshi because it doesn t have the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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                    On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Korinne Hamakawa
                    <email.korinne@...> wrote:
                    > **De-lurk mode**
                    >
                    > The central figures seem to be wearing this kind of wrapped headgear in
                    > Merrymaking under the Cherry Blossoms as well:
                    > http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100159/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=6
                    >
                    > It looks like it is the same thing as what is worn by some ladies in Jidai
                    > Matsuri parades, like this photo:
                    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mavroumati/1736829852/
                    >
                    I was almost thinking the same thing, though it isn't really a binan
                    boshi because it doesn't have the "ears", and the hair is showing in a
                    way that I don't quite see on the binan boshi.

                    -Ii
                  • Carey G
                    Ok so while searching on something else entirely I stumbled across this thread http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14758 About half way
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 20, 2012
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                      Ok so while searching on something else entirely I stumbled across this thread http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14758 About half way down on the page someone posted a series of pictures apparently from this book http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4879405728/ref=ox_ya_oh_product The images from the book to me look like they could perhaps be the same base object but tied differently. Additionally the images from the book make me think that if the ties were undone they might actually look almost exactly like the painting.

                      Does anyone on the list have the referenced book or know the name for the head wrap presented in the pictures?

                      Thanks
                      Agnes

                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Korinne Hamakawa
                      > <email.korinne@...> wrote:
                      > > **De-lurk mode**
                      > >
                      > > The central figures seem to be wearing this kind of wrapped headgear in
                      > > Merrymaking under the Cherry Blossoms as well:
                      > > http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100159/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=6
                      > >
                      > > It looks like it is the same thing as what is worn by some ladies in Jidai
                      > > Matsuri parades, like this photo:
                      > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mavroumati/1736829852/
                      > >
                      > I was almost thinking the same thing, though it isn't really a binan
                      > boshi because it doesn't have the "ears", and the hair is showing in a
                      > way that I don't quite see on the binan boshi.
                      >
                      > -Ii
                      >
                    • Jitoyama
                      This does look like a simple cloth wrap. Taking an educated guess, the fabric is about 18 inches wide and length will vary. The Jidai Matsuri is a beautiful
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 21, 2012
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                        This does look like a simple cloth wrap. Taking an educated guess, the fabric is about 18 inches wide and length will vary. The Jidai Matsuri is a beautiful visual reference. I've gathered a few images that will hopefully help envision how it wraps around the head.

                        These two links show close-ups of the Izumonookuni followers. You can see how the cloth wraps around the head, almost to the side and is then twisted and tucked to create the "ears". Instead of tucking the ends of the cloth, pulling the fabric all the way through will eliminate the "ears" effect.
                        http://img.4travel.jp/img/tcs/t/pict/lrg/23/69/37/lrg_23693784.jpg?20111106215014
                        http://www.flickriver.com/photos/mboogiedown/279380531/

                        This image is of Katsura women. Looking at the back of her head you can see the opening of the cloth and how it wraps to the front. Slightly different, instead of wrapping towards the front, it's tied initially in the back before the left-over tails are fashioned on the forehead.
                        http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201006/22/20/a0037120_11493548.jpg

                        Lastly is an image of musicians, wearing the same style wrap as the Izumonookuni followers but in plain white. The image is not as close-up but it does make it easier to see the similarity of this style wrap in comparison to the one in painting.
                        http://img.4travel.jp/img/tcs/t/pict/lrg/23/69/85/lrg_23698587.jpg?20111106215014



                        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3
                        >
                        > Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        > Agnes
                        >
                      • ErinK
                        Finally got my paper on this hat (from this painting!) on our website. http://www.yamakaminari.com/2012/02/26/the-maple-viewers-hat-2/ Share and enjoy! ERIN
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 29, 2012
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                          Finally got my paper on this hat (from this painting!) on our website.
                          http://www.yamakaminari.com/2012/02/26/the-maple-viewers-hat-2/
                          Share and enjoy!

                          ERIN

                          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3
                          >
                          > Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          > Agnes
                          >
                        • Carey Gorla
                          I clicked the link which took me to a page that appears to link to a pdf but when I click that I get a 404 error. :( Agnes  -- Sent from my Palm Pixi On
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 29, 2012
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                            I clicked the link which took me to a page that appears to link to a pdf but when I click that I get a 404 error. :(
                            Agnes 



                            -- Sent from my Palm Pixi
                            On Feb 29, 2012 8:44 AM, ErinK <tupan4@...> wrote:


                             










                            Finally got my paper on this hat (from this painting!) on our website.

                            http://www.yamakaminari.com/2012/02/26/the-maple-viewers-hat-2/

                            Share and enjoy!



                            ERIN



                            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:

                            >

                            > I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=&region=&era=&century=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3

                            >

                            > Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.

                            >

                            > Thanks

                            > Agnes

                            >




























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Carey Gorla
                            I clicked on the link below and it took me to a page that had a link to a pdf. Unfortunately when I click on the link for the pdf I get a 404 file not found
                            Message 13 of 14 , Feb 29, 2012
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                              I clicked on the link below and it took me to a page that had a link to a pdf. Unfortunately when I click on the link for the pdf I get a 404 file not found error. :(
                              Agnes (really looking forward to seeing the paper)


                              ________________________________
                              From: ErinK <tupan4@...>
                              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 8:44 AM
                              Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Hat help?



                               

                              Finally got my paper on this hat (from this painting!) on our website.
                              http://www.yamakaminari.com/2012/02/26/the-maple-viewers-hat-2/
                              Share and enjoy!

                              ERIN

                              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I am trying to interpret the head wear seen on the woman in red plaid in this painting http://www.emuseum.jp/detail/100150/000/000?mode=detail&d_lang=en&s_lang=en&class=1&title=&c_e=®ion=&era=¢ury=&cptype=&owner=&pos=25&num=3
                              >
                              > Does anyone know what it is called or where other examples might be found? I am not quite sure what to make of it from this one painting.
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              > Agnes
                              >




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • LJonthebay
                              ... CROSSPOSTED from Tousando: The correct URL for the PDF is http://www.yamakaminari.com/docs/MapleViewersHat.pdf Saionji Shonagon West Kingdom
                              Message 14 of 14 , Feb 29, 2012
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                                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey Gorla" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I clicked the link which took me to a page that appears to link to a pdf but when I click that I get a 404 error. :(


                                CROSSPOSTED from Tousando: The correct URL for the PDF is
                                http://www.yamakaminari.com/docs/MapleViewersHat.pdf

                                Saionji Shonagon
                                West Kingdom
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