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Question on Sleeves

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  • Carey G
    So I have been going over this page http://www.wodefordhall.com/kosode.htm in detail over the past week as I prepare for making a more serious attempt at
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 10, 2012
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      So I have been going over this page http://www.wodefordhall.com/kosode.htm in detail over the past week as I prepare for making a more serious attempt at proper 16th century Japanese garb. Something I noticed that I had never noticed before when I just used it as a quick reference for how to make a kasode is the sleeves. When patterning the extant garments the author indicates that the sleeves are very narrow but the modern pattern later on does not seem to reflect this. In fact the sleeves are quite large compared to what the period garments appear to show. Now admitadly my understanding is that most extant period kasode are from Noh theatre groups so perhaps the sleeves are cut differently than would normally be the case for anyone not involved in theatre. Another thing is that in looking at the period art provided on the page I don't see that the sleeves seem to reflect what we see in the extant garments.

      So I guess my question at this point is "Should 16th century kasode sleeves be significantly more narrow than the panels of the body? Are there times that this is correct and other times that it is not?" I would appreciate any thoughts anyone might have on the subject.

      Thanks
      Agnes
    • LJonthebay
      ... Yes, though the width does appear to vary as one looks at surviving examples. (If you look at the thumbnails at the bottom of the kosode web page, you ll
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 10, 2012
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        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
        > So I guess my question at this point is "Should 16th century kasode sleeves be significantly more narrow than the panels of the body? Are there times that this is correct and other times that it is not?" I would appreciate any thoughts anyone might have on the subject.

        Yes, though the width does appear to vary as one looks at surviving examples. (If you look at the thumbnails at the bottom of the kosode web page, you'll see it averages to a half panel, but you can see the variation fairly clearly.) This was likely done to adjust the size of the garment to the wearer. However, for someone who is brand new to constructing a garment (particularly WITHOUT a pattern), the math is a little easier if the sleeve and body panels use the same width.

        (As I have very long arms in proportion to my body size, I also find that I get a more flattering fit if my sleeve panels are the same width as the body panels.)

        Hope this helps a bit.

        Saionji no Hana
        West Kingdom
      • Carey Gorla
        Thanks I was thinking that in the case of making a hitatare it appears that the larger sleeve style does make sense but for everything else it appears to me
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 10, 2012
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          Thanks I was thinking that in the case of making a hitatare it appears that the larger sleeve style does make sense but for everything else it appears to me that it was supposed to be smaller. Thank you for the information as I am trying to put together documentation to possibly enter my next set of garb into an A&S competition so that helps me make sense of things.
          Agnes



          ________________________________
          From: LJonthebay <wodeford@...>
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 3:53 PM
          Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Question on Sleeves


           
          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
          > So I guess my question at this point is "Should 16th century kasode sleeves be significantly more narrow than the panels of the body? Are there times that this is correct and other times that it is not?" I would appreciate any thoughts anyone might have on the subject.

          Yes, though the width does appear to vary as one looks at surviving examples. (If you look at the thumbnails at the bottom of the kosode web page, you'll see it averages to a half panel, but you can see the variation fairly clearly.) This was likely done to adjust the size of the garment to the wearer. However, for someone who is brand new to constructing a garment (particularly WITHOUT a pattern), the math is a little easier if the sleeve and body panels use the same width.

          (As I have very long arms in proportion to my body size, I also find that I get a more flattering fit if my sleeve panels are the same width as the body panels.)

          Hope this helps a bit.

          Saionji no Hana
          West Kingdom




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • LJonthebay
          ... Experimenting with a mock-up in cheap muslin will give you an idea of fit. Saionji no Hana West Kingdom
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 10, 2012
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            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Carey Gorla <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks I was thinking that in the case of making a hitatare it appears that the larger sleeve style does make sense but for everything else it appears to me that it was supposed to be smaller. Thank you for the information as I am trying to put together documentation to possibly enter my next set of garb into an A&S competition so that helps me make sense of things.

            Experimenting with a mock-up in cheap muslin will give you an idea of fit.

            Saionji no Hana
            West Kingdom
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