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Re: Momoyama Patchwork Kosode Project, made from 2 modern kimono

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  • art_fetish
    Did men wear patchwork kosode? This is an interesting question and one I cant clearly answer. However let me explain why I feel that men can ...and did wear
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 21, 2011
      Did men wear patchwork kosode?
      This is an interesting question and one I cant clearly answer. However let me explain why I feel that men can ...and did wear patchwork kosode.

      *The patchwork kosode was developed in Noh theater. Noh was performed exclusively by men. This men were originally wearing these patchwork styles. Men typically were the ones watching Noh being performed, and as such were most likely the ones to take the style from the stage to the streets.

      I will say that I have never seen any models of men wearing a patchwork kosode, however that is because all of my research is centered around women. I have a variety of research books but they are all female oriented.

      In summary I say yes, men can wear this style - but there is a slim chance that I could be wrong. I do mean to research this further, but I am greatly hindered by my inability to read Japanese. I'll make this my new mission to find and document.

      -Lady Kimiko

      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Carey Gorla <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
      >
      > Quick question, my boyfriend saw me looking over these pictures and has indicated an interest in a pieced kasode, would these be accurate for a man?
      > Agnes
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: art_fetish <art_fetish@...>
      > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:01 AM
      > Subject: [SCA-JML] Momoyama Patchwork Kosode Project, made from 2 modern kimono
      >
      >
      >  
      > Momoyama Patchwork Kosode - Project by Lady Kimiko
      >
      > Personally, early to mid Edo is my favorite period. Due to Edo being post period for the SCA I cant really do an Edo persona. What I can do is a Momoyama persona which is the period that is hailed as Japan's 'Golden Era' in art. The Momoyama period is the height of tea culture, and textiles within the realm of period for the SCA.
      >
      > In my short time in the SCA (little over a year) it seems that the Momoyama gets glanced over in favor of the Heian.
      >
      > Allow me to introduce you to the Momoyama patchwork Kosode. Some people incorrectly assume or have read incorrect information that the Japanese did not cut up or take apart kimono/kosode - this information is dead wrong. Japan is not a resource rich nation, and so old textiles were constantly re-purposed into many other things (fabric gift wraps, tea caddy wraps, no clothing, under garments, etc). The Momoyama patchwork kosode was heavily inspired by Noh theater, but also developed out of necessity. The patchwork styles were often a matter of salvaging cloth from old garments to remake them into something usable.
      >
      > Layouts and Titles of different Patchwork Styles:
      > http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5905/whichkosode.jpg
      >
      > Period Documentation / Existing Period Pieces Here (Everything here is from Momoyama):
      > http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9594/img3514600x800.jpg
      > http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8210/img3496800x600.jpg
      > http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5213/img3503800x600.jpg
      > http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5828/img3504800x600.jpg
      > http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1336/img3505800x600.jpg (plaid kosode!)
      > http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6905/img3513600x800.jpg
      > http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2042/dancers1.jpg (From a reenactment featuring Early River Dancers / Kabuki Actresses wearing patchwork kosode)
      >
      > So my personal project began with researching the layout types and color scenes. I picked a layout and then selected my color scale based on classic color coordination rules. Classically speaking red and green go together as a color combination during almost any season.
      >
      > Then came the hard task of finding 2 modern kimono to convert. I chose modern kimono because they shared seams with the kosode - and would actually give me a kosode made from real Japanese textiles. The green part on my kosode is an actual rough grade of silk - light weight for summer. This lightweight silk is better then linen or cotton for summer heat and humidity. The red is a linen weave. Cotton is very expensive, though it is available in the Momoyama period. My persona is not wealth enough to own anything cotton - and so I am staying with real Japanese silk of a lower quality grade for summer and a linen. I suspect the linen is actually a fine hemp, but really have no way to ID it.
      >
      > I documented my work and progress step by step here: http://ohiokimono.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/making-a-momoyama-kosode/
      >
      > I also documented my work and progress here: http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=garb&action=display&thread=3746
      >
      > Total Project time: 3 hours, this is a really simple project that yields a really unique wearable period piece
      > Total Cost: Roughly $100 - worth it too. Im rocking out real Japanese summer weight silk and linen woven by hand on a loom.
      >
      > All in all I really love the look of the finished kosode. Best of all the project was not super complex and the remaining kimono fabric scraps I am going to use for other projects - its always nice to have real Japanese handloomed textiles for projects & gifts :D
      >
      > I am wearing this particular kosode to Coronation this weekend.
      >
      > -Lady Kimiko
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Carey Gorla
      Do not worry about it too much. I think with the knowledge that it is a noh style I feel ok making him what he wants. Thanks Agnes, the german persona that
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 21, 2011
        Do not worry about it too much. I think with the knowledge that it is a noh style I feel ok making him what he wants.
        Thanks
        Agnes, the german persona that doesn't have time to fully research her boyfriend's garb



        -- Sent from my Palm Pixi
        On Sep 21, 2011 11:09 AM, art_fetish <art_fetish@...> wrote:


         














        Did men wear patchwork kosode?

        This is an interesting question and one I cant clearly answer. However let me explain why I feel that men can ...and did wear patchwork kosode.



        *The patchwork kosode was developed in Noh theater. Noh was performed exclusively by men. This men were originally wearing these patchwork styles. Men typically were the ones watching Noh being performed, and as such were most likely the ones to take the style from the stage to the streets.



        I will say that I have never seen any models of men wearing a patchwork kosode, however that is because all of my research is centered around women. I have a variety of research books but they are all female oriented.



        In summary I say yes, men can wear this style - but there is a slim chance that I could be wrong. I do mean to research this further, but I am greatly hindered by my inability to read Japanese. I'll make this my new mission to find and document.



        -Lady Kimiko



        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Carey Gorla <agnesvonh@...> wrote:

        >

        > Quick question, my boyfriend saw me looking over these pictures and has indicated an interest in a pieced kasode, would these be accurate for a man?

        > Agnes

        >

        >

        >

        > ________________________________

        > From: art_fetish <art_fetish@...>

        > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com

        > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:01 AM

        > Subject: [SCA-JML] Momoyama Patchwork Kosode Project, made from 2 modern kimono

        >

        >

        >  

        > Momoyama Patchwork Kosode - Project by Lady Kimiko

        >

        > Personally, early to mid Edo is my favorite period. Due to Edo being post period for the SCA I cant really do an Edo persona. What I can do is a Momoyama persona which is the period that is hailed as Japan's 'Golden Era' in art. The Momoyama period is the height of tea culture, and textiles within the realm of period for the SCA.

        >

        > In my short time in the SCA (little over a year) it seems that the Momoyama gets glanced over in favor of the Heian.

        >

        > Allow me to introduce you to the Momoyama patchwork Kosode. Some people incorrectly assume or have read incorrect information that the Japanese did not cut up or take apart kimono/kosode - this information is dead wrong. Japan is not a resource rich nation, and so old textiles were constantly re-purposed into many other things (fabric gift wraps, tea caddy wraps, no clothing, under garments, etc). The Momoyama patchwork kosode was heavily inspired by Noh theater, but also developed out of necessity. The patchwork styles were often a matter of salvaging cloth from old garments to remake them into something usable.

        >

        > Layouts and Titles of different Patchwork Styles:

        > http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5905/whichkosode.jpg

        >

        > Period Documentation / Existing Period Pieces Here (Everything here is from Momoyama):

        > http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9594/img3514600x800.jpg

        > http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8210/img3496800x600.jpg

        > http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5213/img3503800x600.jpg

        > http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5828/img3504800x600.jpg

        > http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1336/img3505800x600.jpg (plaid kosode!)

        > http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6905/img3513600x800.jpg

        > http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2042/dancers1.jpg (From a reenactment featuring Early River Dancers / Kabuki Actresses wearing patchwork kosode)

        >

        > So my personal project began with researching the layout types and color scenes. I picked a layout and then selected my color scale based on classic color coordination rules. Classically speaking red and green go together as a color combination during almost any season.

        >

        > Then came the hard task of finding 2 modern kimono to convert. I chose modern kimono because they shared seams with the kosode - and would actually give me a kosode made from real Japanese textiles. The green part on my kosode is an actual rough grade of silk - light weight for summer. This lightweight silk is better then linen or cotton for summer heat and humidity. The red is a linen weave. Cotton is very expensive, though it is available in the Momoyama period. My persona is not wealth enough to own anything cotton - and so I am staying with real Japanese silk of a lower quality grade for summer and a linen. I suspect the linen is actually a fine hemp, but really have no way to ID it.

        >

        > I documented my work and progress step by step here: http://ohiokimono.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/making-a-momoyama-kosode/

        >

        > I also documented my work and progress here: http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=garb&action=display&thread=3746

        >

        > Total Project time: 3 hours, this is a really simple project that yields a really unique wearable period piece

        > Total Cost: Roughly $100 - worth it too. Im rocking out real Japanese summer weight silk and linen woven by hand on a loom.

        >

        > All in all I really love the look of the finished kosode. Best of all the project was not super complex and the remaining kimono fabric scraps I am going to use for other projects - its always nice to have real Japanese handloomed textiles for projects & gifts :D

        >

        > I am wearing this particular kosode to Coronation this weekend.

        >

        > -Lady Kimiko

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >




























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jennifer Kobayashi
        Question: Did men wear pieced kosode? Answer: They certainly wore pieced garments. Documentation:  http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8210/img3496800x600.jpg
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 21, 2011
          Question: Did men wear pieced kosode?

          Answer: They certainly wore pieced garments.

          Documentation: 
          http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8210/img3496800x600.jpg

          In Jill Liddell's _The Story of Kimono_  ISBN: 0-525-24574-X p.97 Figure 90 this garment pictured in the link above is described as a coat (dofuku) owned by Uesugi Kenshin given to him by Nobunaga. "It was the custom of the time of Momoyama to present to a man a patched garment made from pieces of cloth donated by his friends." In this case, Chinese brocades.

          And one of Saionji-hime's favorite examples, one of the "genre scenes of the twelve months" (Muromachi, 16th cen) from the Tokyo National Museum:
          http://www.tnm.jp/uploads/r_collection/LL_C0022475.jpg

          There are several men in "half the body different" or quartered kosode.

          Note that the patchwork look was popular enough that some fabrics were actually woven to look like a pieced garment.
           
          -Ki no Izumi
          __,_._,__

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • art_fetish
          OMG! That what that said! AWESOME! Thank you so much for translating this - how amazing! Im so glad I snagged photos from the library, as that is the first
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 21, 2011
            OMG! That what that said! AWESOME! Thank you so much for translating this - how amazing! Im so glad I snagged photos from the library, as that is the first time I have heard of that story. Oda really seemed to do a lot for his men.
            -Lady Kimiko

            > Question: Did men wear pieced kosode?
            >
            > Answer: They certainly wore pieced garments.
            >
            > Documentation: 
            > http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8210/img3496800x600.jpg
            >
            > In Jill Liddell's _The Story of Kimono_  ISBN: 0-525-24574-X p.97 Figure 90 this garment pictured in the link above is described as a coat (dofuku) owned by Uesugi Kenshin given to him by Nobunaga. "It was the custom of the time of Momoyama to present to a man a patched garment made from pieces of cloth donated by his friends." In this case, Chinese brocades.
            >
            > And one of Saionji-hime's favorite examples, one of the "genre scenes of the twelve months" (Muromachi, 16th cen) from the Tokyo National Museum:
            > http://www.tnm.jp/uploads/r_collection/LL_C0022475.jpg
            >
            > There are several men in "half the body different" or quartered kosode.
            >
            > Note that the patchwork look was popular enough that some fabrics were actually woven to look like a pieced garment.
            >  
            > -Ki no Izumi
            > __,_._,__
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • art_fetish
            Also, here is a Momoyama Kosode that is not a patchwork Kosode, but is dyed to resemble one. http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7765/dyepatchwork.jpg - this
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 21, 2011
              Also, here is a Momoyama Kosode that is not a patchwork Kosode, but is dyed to resemble one.

              http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7765/dyepatchwork.jpg - this look is achieved with dye work, not an actual patchwork. It seems that the style was pretty popular.

              -Lady Kimiko

              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Kobayashi <jhkob@...> wrote:
              >
              > Question: Did men wear pieced kosode?
              >
              > Answer: They certainly wore pieced garments.
              >
              > Documentation: 
              > http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8210/img3496800x600.jpg
              >
              > In Jill Liddell's _The Story of Kimono_  ISBN: 0-525-24574-X p.97 Figure 90 this garment pictured in the link above is described as a coat (dofuku) owned by Uesugi Kenshin given to him by Nobunaga. "It was the custom of the time of Momoyama to present to a man a patched garment made from pieces of cloth donated by his friends." In this case, Chinese brocades.
              >
              > And one of Saionji-hime's favorite examples, one of the "genre scenes of the twelve months" (Muromachi, 16th cen) from the Tokyo National Museum:
              > http://www.tnm.jp/uploads/r_collection/LL_C0022475.jpg
              >
              > There are several men in "half the body different" or quartered kosode.
              >
              > Note that the patchwork look was popular enough that some fabrics were actually woven to look like a pieced garment.
              >  
              > -Ki no Izumi
              > __,_._,__
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Jennifer Kobayashi
              Just a clarification that _I_ did not actually translate it - just reporting what my book/source has. Glad it s useful to you.   -Jennifer/Ki no Izumi ...
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 21, 2011
                Just a clarification that _I_ did not actually translate it - just reporting what my book/source has. Glad it's useful to you.
                 
                -Jennifer/Ki no Izumi


                >________________________________
                >From: art_fetish <art_fetish@...>
                >To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:54 PM
                >Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: was Momoyama Patchwork Kosode Project now did men wear patchwork.
                >
                >

                >OMG! That what that said! AWESOME! Thank you so much for translating this - how amazing! Im so glad I snagged photos from the library, as that is the first time I have heard of that story. Oda really seemed to do a lot for his men.
                >-Lady Kimiko
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • art_fetish
                Ah, understood. All the same the information is very valuable and of interest to many people. Thank you. -Lady Kimiko
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 21, 2011
                  Ah, understood. All the same the information is very valuable and of interest to many people. Thank you.

                  -Lady Kimiko

                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Kobayashi <jhkob@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Just a clarification that _I_ did not actually translate it - just reporting what my book/source has. Glad it's useful to you.
                  >  
                  > -Jennifer/Ki no Izumi
                  >
                  >
                  > >________________________________
                  > >From: art_fetish <art_fetish@...>
                  > >To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:54 PM
                  > >Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: was Momoyama Patchwork Kosode Project now did men wear patchwork.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 
                  > >OMG! That what that said! AWESOME! Thank you so much for translating this - how amazing! Im so glad I snagged photos from the library, as that is the first time I have heard of that story. Oda really seemed to do a lot for his men.
                  > >-Lady Kimiko
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
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