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Re: [SCA-JML] Archery

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  • richard johnson
    i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is very, very limited. They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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      i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is very,
      very limited.
      They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than the
      lower. This means that the upper long limb was thinner than the lower.
      Archery in Japan was very much like the tea ceremony.. a simple matter take
      to the extreme until it became art!

      Swords are simplier.
      Do you want a wall-hanger that looks good on your hip or a real sword that
      works?
      Bud-K mail-order or any swap meet will sell you a bunch of stainless steel
      swords that look good but are useless. if you do this, i would suggest that
      you take a file and remove the edge. Dull stainless swords are much safer.

      If you want a GOOD sword, we all have our favorite companies.
      Hanwei
      Cheness
      Oni Forge
      Last Legend... etc.
      The only real differnce between these good mid-range swords ($200-500) is
      who likes which company. Those four are my favorite, other people here will
      have a similar list that they like.
      Masahiro and Musahsi sell cheaper swords that are not as good but still
      nice blades.
      Hanwei is noted for making Naginatas, arrowheads, yari, etc in addition to
      swords. Paul Chen really took advantage of China's shift into capitalism.

      Now as for hand-made swords... Honestly, the Japanese folded their swords
      for one reason. They had really crappy steel and had to figure out a way to
      make bad steel into good swords.
      Modern machine-made swords are much better than anything the ancient Sword
      masters could do.
      So if you want a hand-made sword (I have one from the 19th century) I think
      it is purely an asthetic thing. i would never play with my hand-made
      sword! And of the dozen best swordmakers in the world today, probably half
      are Americans.

      Last Legend makes really good cutting swords that are computer designed to
      cut tatasmi mats and pool noodles. I cut 2-liter bottles as it is cheaper.
      And i have a Hanwei Practical Pro katana (designed by a California Kendo
      school) that I really do not like at all. $400 + shipping <g>. Some guy
      wanted to buy it for his 6 year old kid and i refused to sell it to him.

      So decide on what you want... then look for a blade that meets that need.

      Now i get to sit back and listen to the other people on this list teach us
      both about Archery. yay!

      On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...
      > wrote:

      >
      >
      > Hi, hope you guys aren't sick of me and my questions, yet!
      >
      > Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow designs
      > of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
      > the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out
      > with
      > using. So, are the longbows all they used? And anyone know a resource for
      > acquiring an appropriate beginner bow?
      >
      > Along with that. Where do you guys get your swords? While he has a lot of
      > sword sites that he likes, I'm not sure how many of them are appropriate,
      > nor what the reasonable price range is, since they seem to range from
      > questionably cheap to laughably expensive!
      >
      > Thanks (again),
      > Michelle Touketto
      >
      > --
      > "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      Rick Johnson
      http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
      "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security
      will soon find that they have neither."


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • LJonthebay
      ... He should search on kyudo and yumi. Yumi are the Japanese longbow. They are asymmetric, are shot somewhat differently than Western bows and are
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...> wrote:
        > Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow designs
        > of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
        > the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out with
        > using. So, are the longbows all they used?

        He should search on "kyudo" and "yumi." Yumi are the Japanese longbow. They are asymmetric, are shot somewhat differently than Western bows and are extremely expensive, even for beginner bows. Instruction in kyudo is likewise an issue, particularly if there are no practitioners in your area.

        If he has not done archery previously, I would suggest he get in touch with your local archery marshal and get started with loaner gear to see if he likes shooting and acquires some basic skills before attempting to trade up.

        I cannot answer regarding swords. That's what retainers are for. ;-D Is he planning on using it merely as a costume accessory or does he intend to eventually get into iaido or other martial arts with it?

        Saionji no Hana
        West Kingdom
      • Audrey Bergeron-Morin
        FYI, there was a Japanese bow (with very long upper limb) for sale last time we went to Arcs Élite... so it is possible to find some. Kyudo bows amre made
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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          FYI, there was a Japanese bow (with very long upper limb) for sale
          last time we went to Arcs Élite... so it is possible to find some.

          Kyudo bows amre made this way because they are meant to be used while kneeling.

          They also had much smaller bows to use while hunting, or at war, or
          horseback riding, that are less prestigious but probably much cheaper
          and easier to carry around; closer in shape and form to a Chinese or
          Mongolian bows.

          For images you can check here
          http://www.japaneseweapons.net/yumiya/yumi/english.htm

          On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:17 AM, richard johnson
          <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
          > i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is very,
          > very limited.
          > They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than the
          > lower.  This means that the upper long limb was thinner than the lower.
          > Archery in Japan was very much like the tea ceremony.. a simple matter take
          > to the extreme until it became art!
          >
        • Chibasama Ryuichiro
          I ve been using a yumi for about five years now. I don t know if it s the only bow used in Japan, but it s the only one I ve seen. It s not difficult, but it
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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            I've been using a yumi for about five years now. I don't know if it's the
            only bow used in Japan, but it's the only one I've seen. It's not difficult,
            but it does take more practice than normal bows, both due to its
            asymmetrical design and the quirky thumb grip it uses. There are plenty of
            tutorials online for how to do it. Don't scoff at the last step; oddly, it
            is the most important.

            I get my supplies at http://kyudo.com/asahiam.html

            It takes a while to get a bow, as they order them from Japan only a few
            times a year, but the product is well worth the wait. They have yumi in
            fiberglass, graphite, and of course, bamboo. I recommend one of the first
            two, as the bamboo takes a lot of extra care. They have all sorts of
            different poundage, from practice to practical. Also, get synthetic strings
            (and extra ones), as the hemp ones don't react to weather well. Make sure
            you get a tsurumaki, as well. Not only does it add a layer of realism to
            your garb, they're damned useful when your string breaks.

            If you're just looking for something to practice your form on, you want a
            gomuyumi, which is just a rubber band on a small pole. Depending on your
            endowment, you may also need a muneate, to keep your chest protected from
            string strike. Finally, because of the odd thumb grip, you'll need an
            archery glove with a thumb. I just use a regular archery glove in
            conjunction with an ippongake, as kyudo gloves are damned expensive.

            Live, Love, Learn!
            -Chiba
          • Chibasama Ryúichiro
            While they are very well used kneeling, the design of the yumi was for use on a horseback. Live, Love, Learn! -Chiba ... From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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              While they are very well used kneeling, the design of the yumi was for use
              on a horseback.

              Live, Love, Learn!
              -Chiba


              -----Original Message-----
              From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Audrey Bergeron-Morin
              Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:24 AM
              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Archery

              FYI, there was a Japanese bow (with very long upper limb) for sale
              last time we went to Arcs Élite... so it is possible to find some.

              Kyudo bows amre made this way because they are meant to be used while
              kneeling.

              They also had much smaller bows to use while hunting, or at war, or
              horseback riding, that are less prestigious but probably much cheaper
              and easier to carry around; closer in shape and form to a Chinese or
              Mongolian bows.

              For images you can check here
              http://www.japaneseweapons.net/yumiya/yumi/english.htm

              On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:17 AM, richard johnson
              <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
              > i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is
              very,
              > very limited.
              > They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than the
              > lower.  This means that the upper long limb was thinner than the lower.
              > Archery in Japan was very much like the tea ceremony.. a simple matter
              take
              > to the extreme until it became art!
              >


              ------------------------------------

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            • Chibasama Ryuichiro
              Art, yes, but with more spiritual undertones. Kyudo is, today, nearly exclusively a Zen practice 8) Live, Love, Learn! -Chiba ... From:
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                Art, yes, but with more spiritual undertones. Kyudo is, today, nearly
                exclusively a Zen practice 8)

                Live, Love, Learn!
                -Chiba


                -----Original Message-----
                From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                richard johnson
                Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:18 AM
                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Archery

                i cannot tell you much about the Longbow as my knowledge of Kyu-do is very,
                very limited.
                They mainly used a longbow where the upper limb was much longer than the
                lower. This means that the upper long limb was thinner than the lower.
                Archery in Japan was very much like the tea ceremony.. a simple matter take
                to the extreme until it became art!

                Swords are simplier.
                Do you want a wall-hanger that looks good on your hip or a real sword that
                works?
                Bud-K mail-order or any swap meet will sell you a bunch of stainless steel
                swords that look good but are useless. if you do this, i would suggest that
                you take a file and remove the edge. Dull stainless swords are much safer.

                If you want a GOOD sword, we all have our favorite companies.
                Hanwei
                Cheness
                Oni Forge
                Last Legend... etc.
                The only real differnce between these good mid-range swords ($200-500) is
                who likes which company. Those four are my favorite, other people here will
                have a similar list that they like.
                Masahiro and Musahsi sell cheaper swords that are not as good but still
                nice blades.
                Hanwei is noted for making Naginatas, arrowheads, yari, etc in addition to
                swords. Paul Chen really took advantage of China's shift into capitalism.

                Now as for hand-made swords... Honestly, the Japanese folded their swords
                for one reason. They had really crappy steel and had to figure out a way to
                make bad steel into good swords.
                Modern machine-made swords are much better than anything the ancient Sword
                masters could do.
                So if you want a hand-made sword (I have one from the 19th century) I think
                it is purely an asthetic thing. i would never play with my hand-made
                sword! And of the dozen best swordmakers in the world today, probably half
                are Americans.

                Last Legend makes really good cutting swords that are computer designed to
                cut tatasmi mats and pool noodles. I cut 2-liter bottles as it is cheaper.
                And i have a Hanwei Practical Pro katana (designed by a California Kendo
                school) that I really do not like at all. $400 + shipping <g>. Some guy
                wanted to buy it for his 6 year old kid and i refused to sell it to him.

                So decide on what you want... then look for a blade that meets that need.

                Now i get to sit back and listen to the other people on this list teach us
                both about Archery. yay!

                On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...
                > wrote:

                >
                >
                > Hi, hope you guys aren't sick of me and my questions, yet!
                >
                > Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow designs
                > of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
                > the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out
                > with
                > using. So, are the longbows all they used? And anyone know a resource for
                > acquiring an appropriate beginner bow?
                >
                > Along with that. Where do you guys get your swords? While he has a lot of
                > sword sites that he likes, I'm not sure how many of them are appropriate,
                > nor what the reasonable price range is, since they seem to range from
                > questionably cheap to laughably expensive!
                >
                > Thanks (again),
                > Michelle Touketto
                >
                > --
                > "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Rick Johnson
                http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
                "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined security
                will soon find that they have neither."


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                I disagree a bit. Euro archery and kyudo are different in almost every way (different stance, different eye , different grip, different string grip,
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                  I disagree a bit. Euro archery and kyudo are different in almost every way
                  (different stance, different 'eye', different grip, different string grip,
                  different release, different side of the bow, different rest, and the whole
                  'bow spins in your hand' thing is just weird), the experience doesn't
                  translate well, and forgetting euro-bow habits makes the process longer and
                  more awkward. While yumi are rather expensive (400-800), there are plenty
                  of cheap training options for kyudo that don't require teachers or bows (the
                  aforementioned gomuyumi).

                  Personally, I just got the bow, did lots of reading and video watching, and
                  got to it. It's not so difficult that there's any reasonable chance you
                  won't figure it out 8)

                  Besides, it looks FANTASTIC when you do it right 8)

                  Live, Love, Learn!
                  -Chiba


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  LJonthebay
                  Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:22 AM
                  To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Archery

                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...>
                  wrote:
                  > Does anyone do archery? Anthony's been trying to find Japanese bow
                  designs
                  > of the appropriate times, online, but hasn't had much luck. Also, he says
                  > the Japanese used a longbow, which might be more difficult to start out
                  with
                  > using. So, are the longbows all they used?

                  He should search on "kyudo" and "yumi." Yumi are the Japanese longbow. They
                  are asymmetric, are shot somewhat differently than Western bows and are
                  extremely expensive, even for beginner bows. Instruction in kyudo is
                  likewise an issue, particularly if there are no practitioners in your area.

                  If he has not done archery previously, I would suggest he get in touch with
                  your local archery marshal and get started with loaner gear to see if he
                  likes shooting and acquires some basic skills before attempting to trade up.


                  I cannot answer regarding swords. That's what retainers are for. ;-D Is he
                  planning on using it merely as a costume accessory or does he intend to
                  eventually get into iaido or other martial arts with it?

                  Saionji no Hana
                  West Kingdom



                  ------------------------------------

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                • Steve Richardson
                  A quick note on the swords mentioned in the first reply. Last Legend is out of business. However 3 katana from Last Legend have been sold on ebay in the past
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                    A quick note on the swords mentioned in the first reply. Last Legend is out of business. However 3 katana from Last Legend have been sold on ebay in the past 60 days usually at about half price of a new blade.
                  • LJonthebay
                    Ten demerits for improper use of the word somewhat. Saionji no Standing In The Corner
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                      Ten demerits for improper use of the word "somewhat."

                      Saionji no Standing In The Corner
                    • Michelle Touketto
                      With time and resource constraints, I think he s going to be purchasing a sword before a bow. There is a kyudo dojo about an hour or a little less from where
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                        With time and resource constraints, I think he's going to be purchasing a
                        sword before a bow. There is a kyudo dojo about an hour or a little less
                        from where we live, so it's something to think about in the future. He is
                        very interested in a number of Japanese marital arts, including iaido. But
                        he also works full time, goes to school part time, he's step-father to my
                        older two children (9 and 8), as well as one toddler we have together, and
                        we're expecting our second little girl together at the end of May. I know
                        my thought would be to get one that could be multi-functional, which means
                        non-edged, I believe. I think he's currently looking at something called
                        the raptor series, so that he can get an edged blade and a non-edged blade
                        for around the price of the one really "cool" sword he also wants. Or not,
                        now I'm hearing something about those not having a hamon line.

                        I also managed to post pictures of the garb I made us, constructive
                        criticism appreciated before I work on anything for Spring/Summer! Of note,
                        I think I'm going to make my next set with an inch or so wider panels as the
                        bottom didn't seem to wrap around as far as I wanted it to do.

                        Thanks for being patient with all of my questions! Going to be acquiring
                        books to study soon, just need tax money and/or financial aid extras to show
                        up!

                        Sincerely,
                        Michelle/Gwenhwyvar
                        Barony of Sternfeld
                        Middle Kingdom

                        On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:52 PM, LJonthebay <wodeford@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Ten demerits for improper use of the word "somewhat."
                        >
                        > Saionji no Standing In The Corner
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                        You re lucky, I had to learn on my own 8) Live, Love, Learn! -Chiba ... From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michelle
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          You're lucky, I had to learn on my own 8)

                          Live, Love, Learn!
                          -Chiba


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          Michelle Touketto
                          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:37 PM
                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Archery

                          With time and resource constraints, I think he's going to be purchasing a
                          sword before a bow. There is a kyudo dojo about an hour or a little less
                          from where we live, so it's something to think about in the future. He is
                          very interested in a number of Japanese marital arts, including iaido. But
                          he also works full time, goes to school part time, he's step-father to my
                          older two children (9 and 8), as well as one toddler we have together, and
                          we're expecting our second little girl together at the end of May. I know
                          my thought would be to get one that could be multi-functional, which means
                          non-edged, I believe. I think he's currently looking at something called
                          the raptor series, so that he can get an edged blade and a non-edged blade
                          for around the price of the one really "cool" sword he also wants. Or not,
                          now I'm hearing something about those not having a hamon line.

                          I also managed to post pictures of the garb I made us, constructive
                          criticism appreciated before I work on anything for Spring/Summer! Of note,
                          I think I'm going to make my next set with an inch or so wider panels as the
                          bottom didn't seem to wrap around as far as I wanted it to do.

                          Thanks for being patient with all of my questions! Going to be acquiring
                          books to study soon, just need tax money and/or financial aid extras to show
                          up!

                          Sincerely,
                          Michelle/Gwenhwyvar
                          Barony of Sternfeld
                          Middle Kingdom

                          On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:52 PM, LJonthebay <wodeford@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Ten demerits for improper use of the word "somewhat."
                          >
                          > Saionji no Standing In The Corner
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          --
                          "All knowledge is worth having." Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          ------------------------------------

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                        • Eilionora
                          Lady Gwenhwyvar, I m usually just a lurker on this list, but I wanted to speak up here. I am a current practitioner of modern kyudo (been at it for ~2.5 years
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Lady Gwenhwyvar,

                            I'm usually just a lurker on this list, but I wanted to speak up here. I am a current practitioner of modern kyudo (been at it for ~2.5 years now), and I wanted to share a few thoughts:

                            1) I think your decision to wait on the archery stuff is a good one. Not because I want to discourage Anthony from learning the art (quite the opposite, because I know we love to see new faces in our dojo!), but it's a very very different form of archery and NOT easy to learn quickly at all (sorry for the caps, but I had to stress that). I would suggest (if possible) having him visit the dojo near you--let's see... Middle Kingdom... that would be the Indiana Kyudo Renmei, I believe--and try it out a few times before beginning to purchase equipment and such. It's not an instant-gratification activity, that's for sure, and requires lots of patience.

                            2) I--sadly--can't say I've done much research as to how archery styles looked "in period" (there are some pictures of equipment, but the paintings of practitioners leave something to be desired), but we do know that some form of it was used throughout our period of interest. That said--and here I'm going to sort of contradict what I said in #1, ha--I'd caution against using the art in its current form in SCA battles. It's evolved to the point at which it's absolutely useless for battle... it's a lot of ceremony and one shot can take a whole minute to complete. Not so good if you're trying to take out the other guy in a hurry! I had intended to do more research on this myself at some point, but I haven't gotten around to it yet, unfortunately. Maybe someone else on this list has some resources that mention archery practices in period?

                            3) Speaking from experience, knowing how to shoot a "regular", non-Japanese bow can actually hinder learning kyudo. So it's better if Anthony has little or no experience shooting Western-style bows, because that way he won't have to un-learn what he has learned (like I did... and like I am still doing!).

                            If you have any more questions, or would like help getting in touch with your somewhat-local kyudojo (my dojo is also an hour away from me, too, so you're not alone!), please let me know offline. And that goes for anyone else curious about kyudo! I'd be happy to share what I can if anyone else is looking to get involved.

                            Cheers,
                            Eilionora (Elizabeth)



                            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Touketto <ladygwenhwyvar@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > With time and resource constraints, I think he's going to be purchasing a
                            > sword before a bow. There is a kyudo dojo about an hour or a little less
                            > from where we live, so it's something to think about in the future. He is
                            > very interested in a number of Japanese marital arts, including iaido. But
                            > he also works full time, goes to school part time, he's step-father to my
                            > older two children (9 and 8), as well as one toddler we have together, and
                            > we're expecting our second little girl together at the end of May. I know
                            > my thought would be to get one that could be multi-functional, which means
                            > non-edged, I believe. I think he's currently looking at something called
                            > the raptor series, so that he can get an edged blade and a non-edged blade
                            > for around the price of the one really "cool" sword he also wants. Or not,
                            > now I'm hearing something about those not having a hamon line.
                            >
                            > I also managed to post pictures of the garb I made us, constructive
                            > criticism appreciated before I work on anything for Spring/Summer! Of note,
                            > I think I'm going to make my next set with an inch or so wider panels as the
                            > bottom didn't seem to wrap around as far as I wanted it to do.
                            >
                            > Thanks for being patient with all of my questions! Going to be acquiring
                            > books to study soon, just need tax money and/or financial aid extras to show
                            > up!
                            >
                            > Sincerely,
                            > Michelle/Gwenhwyvar
                            > Barony of Sternfeld
                            > Middle Kingdom
                            >
                          • Michelle Touketto
                            MODERATOR NOTE: This message was originally top posted over two preceding messages. They have been removed as they do not require repetition. Thank you.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 31, 2011
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                              MODERATOR NOTE: This message was originally "top posted" over two preceding messages. They have been removed as they do not require repetition. Thank you. Saionji no Hana, Pacific Time Zone
                              POSTER'S ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS:

                              As a note, my email address is one of long standing and not a reference to an SCA title. I signed up for the group with the wrong account. Usually, I remember to use the other one to avoid seeming like I'm presuming on a title.

                              Thank you for the information, and yes, you are correct about the name of the dojo. Lol, as much as he loves the concepts behind many Japanese activities, he is not a generally patient person! And I noted from a few sites that kyudo seems to be very focused on Zen teachings, and that there was one site that mentioned another archery form called kyujutsu or kyujitsu.

                              Anyone know anything about that form, and it's potential use in the SCA?

                              Gwenhwyvar
                              Barony of Sternfeld
                              Middle Kingdom
                            • Erin Kelly
                              If you are in range of Pennsic, there s a vendor there called Yumi who specializes in Japanese archery. Also, many of my colleagues in Clan YamaKaminari have
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 1, 2011
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                                If you are in range of Pennsic, there's a vendor there called Yumi who
                                specializes in Japanese archery. Also, many of my colleagues in Clan
                                YamaKaminari have experience with Japanese archery, both in target
                                shooting and in SCA combat - stop by our camp if you make it to
                                Pennsic and we can find someone to talk with you about it.

                                ERIN
                              • David Holt
                                I ve done ZNKR Kyudo (at the Indiana Kyudo Renmei), Heki Ryu Bishu Chikurin-ha Kyudo, and modern western-style sport archery. I still practice them all, but am
                                Message 15 of 29 , Feb 1, 2011
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                                  I've done ZNKR Kyudo (at the Indiana Kyudo Renmei), Heki Ryu Bishu Chikurin-ha Kyudo, and modern western-style sport archery. I still practice them all, but am not currently taking instruction in any. I did enjoy my training in Indiana, but it was a long drive from Chicago. For someone with not much patience, it might be a good way to learn and practice patience.

                                  Kyujutsu is theoretically more combat oriented than Kyudo, but it's not a hard and fast rule. With no enemies to shoot at for the past 400 years, all the -jutsu arts have become very similar to the -do arts. I have been working on removing the ritual from the Kyudo I know to see how it might work as a martial art.

                                  I disagree that western and Japanese archery are so different. So many of the basics are the same (relax your shoulders and hands, use your back instead of your arms, be consistent in your movements, don't hurry your movements, etc.). The differences are in the details (use your fingers or your thumb, arrow on the left or on the right, pull to the midbody or full arm length, pull from the front or from above, etc.). If I shoot both western and Japanese on the same day, it takes me a moment to get used to each one, but then I can easily switch back and forth. I particularly don't like the modern Kyudo glove, though. I wear a thick leather gardening glove now. I wouldn't have to remove it if I had to switch to my sword and if I decided to remove it, it would take 2 seconds instead of 2 minutes. I hear the Yabusame gloves are much softer, thinner, and more flexible, so I might see if I can find one of those the next time I'm in Japan.

                                  But I can't speak to how any of it works for historical accuracy or SCA purposes.
                                • chagin1
                                  ... This I doubt. Archeological evidence shows asymmetrical bows buried in graves before the horse was introduced into Japan. The design predates the horse.
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Feb 6, 2011
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                                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Chibasama Ryúichiro <chiba@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > While they are very well used kneeling, the design of the yumi was for use
                                    > on a horseback.
                                    >
                                    > Live, Love, Learn!
                                    > -Chiba

                                    This I doubt. Archeological evidence shows asymmetrical bows buried in graves before the horse was introduced into Japan. The design predates the horse.

                                    Takanofuji Jutte
                                  • JL Badgley
                                    ... Can you come up with dates and cites? I d be interested in what you have, because that isn t a claim I recall seeing before. From what I can see, the
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Feb 6, 2011
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                                      On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:40 AM, chagin1 <chagin1@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > This I doubt.  Archeological evidence shows asymmetrical bows buried in graves before the horse was introduced into Japan.  The design predates the horse.
                                      >
                                      Can you come up with dates and cites? I'd be interested in what you
                                      have, because that isn't a claim I recall seeing before.

                                      From what I can see, the assymetric bow occurs across central Eurasia,
                                      in one form or another--I'm not sure what the oldest dates of bows and
                                      horses are, though. I've also seen some theories that it has more to
                                      do with power generation than it has to do with horseback riding.


                                      -Ii
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