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Re: [SCA-JML] Chests

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  • Elaine Koogler
    To be honest, I m not sure how far back they go, but I do know that at least during some periods in Japan, the tansu was used. Typically, it was made of
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 17, 2010
      To be honest, I'm not sure how far back they go, but I do know that at
      least during some periods in Japan, the tansu was used. Typically, it
      was made of paulownia or elm with iron fittings. They varied in size
      but were usually large enough to carry one's possessions when
      traveling. They could be stacked on on top of another to provide more
      storage space. When traveling, poles were run through the handles that
      existed on each end of the tansu. The one reference I found online with
      a date says that these were used during the Edo period, but I have to
      believe that something similar must have been used earlier.

      Kiri

      On 10/16/2010 11:23 PM, the.lady.phoenix@... wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > I am looking for examples of chests used in Japan pre Edo, however the
      > only examples I have found have been small laquered chest unsuited to
      > travel and camp life.
      >
      > If anyone has had better luck, I would hope they would share their
      > findings, perhaps as an A&S report, shared to the list.
      >
      > Sara
      >
      >

      --
      "/It is only with the heart /that one can see clearly; what is essential
      is invisible to the eye."
      --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, /The Little Prince/


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Eckman
      You can find small chunks of paulwonia masquerading as cutting boards in dollar stores sometimes. You can buy boards online and yes it is extremely light. Your
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 17, 2010
        You can find small chunks of paulwonia masquerading as cutting boards
        in dollar stores sometimes. You can buy boards online and yes it is
        extremely light. Your tools will have to be very sharp to cut it without
        crushing it.

        Don't bother with it for cutting boards though, about the silliest
        application for it that I can think of!

        Jim
      • Elaine Koogler
        Or find a sympathetic friend who lives in Virginia or Maryland. Paulownia trees grow wild here, and this area is where the Japanese are getting much of what
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 17, 2010
          Or find a sympathetic friend who lives in Virginia or Maryland.
          Paulownia trees grow wild here, and this area is where the Japanese are
          getting much of what they use today. There was some kind of blight on
          the trees in Japan, so they have to import what they use. It sometimes
          gets so bad that scavengers will actually steal trees from people's
          yards. I have a couple in my yard that I planted...one blew over in a
          storm and I was able to sell the wood very quickly! No...to answer your
          question...I don't have any that look to come down anytime soon. If so,
          I'll let the list know.

          Kiri (guess where my name came from??? However the English name for the
          tree is actually a 19th c. Russian word. Amazing what you discover when
          you're trying to register an heraldic title!)

          On 10/17/2010 10:58 AM, James Eckman wrote:
          >
          > You can find small chunks of paulwonia masquerading as cutting boards
          > in dollar stores sometimes. You can buy boards online and yes it is
          > extremely light. Your tools will have to be very sharp to cut it without
          > crushing it.
          >
          > Don't bother with it for cutting boards though, about the silliest
          > application for it that I can think of!
          >
          > Jim
          >
          >

          --
          "/It is only with the heart /that one can see clearly; what is essential
          is invisible to the eye."
          --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, /The Little Prince/


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dean Wayland
          Greetings Kiri-dono, et all, ... My group here in the UK, did a lot of research in to these items some years ago in an attempt to solve our in-camp storage and
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 18, 2010
            Greetings Kiri-dono, et all,

            >To be honest, I'm not sure how far back they go, but I do know that at
            >least during some periods in Japan, the tansu was used. Typically, it
            >was made of paulownia or elm with iron fittings. They varied in size
            >but were usually large enough to carry one's possessions when
            >traveling. They could be stacked on on top of another to provide more
            >storage space. When traveling, poles were run through the handles that
            >existed on each end of the tansu. The one reference I found online with
            >a date says that these were used during the Edo period, but I have to
            >believe that something similar must have been used earlier.
            >
            >Kiri

            My group here in the UK, did a lot of research in to these items some
            years ago in an attempt to solve our in-camp storage and transport
            needs. I now have eight, which are used for everything from carrying
            jinmaku (camp curtains), through armour, bedding, clothes and all those
            little things that make life in 16th century Japan so pleasant,
            including my nice new hibachi, Yay, heating!:-)

            The term "tansu" is today used by dealers as a catch all term for chest
            like furniture, but this is because most survivors are of Edo period
            make. The pre-Edo version is called "hitsu", hence the term
            "yoroi-bitsu" for one form of armour chest.

            Our typical hitsu measures 21.5" tall (of that 5" is the lid), by 17.5"
            long, by 16" wide, and are made of 1/4" thick wood, normally pine, but
            also paulownia, elm (zelkova) and cypress. We have a few that were made
            out of 1/2" wood so they could be sat on or stood on, but they are heavy
            to carry, and so all our new ones are thinner. We do have larger ones,
            but again they end up too heavy when loaded, to be comfortable. Most are
            painted to seal them from the weather, but some are plain wood. The
            joints are simple comb joints in most cases. We're going to be building
            some nagamochi, long chests, for carrying lightweight but bulky items
            like futons.

            The narrow end can be fitted with either metal or rope handles for
            portage purposes, using a rectangular pole and a couple of peasants -
            which are never around when you want them.

            We had a black smith turn out several dozen handle sets for us, and they
            work superbly. Now loading and unloading is a dream, we wouldn't be
            without them, and they really make the campsite look excellent.

            Anyway I highly recommend the following book, which although it
            concentrates on the Edo period has a wealth of information on kit from
            as early as the Heian era, right through to Meiji and Taisho. At the
            back is a stunningly useful visual history of different types of kit.
            For example, lighting, bedding and cooking gear.

            http://www.amazon.com/Traditional-Japanese-Furniture-Kazuko-Koizumi/dp/08
            7011722X#_


            Anyway, I hope this helps.

            Yours

            Dean

            (SHOGUN: 1543-1640)
            http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk/SHOGUN.htm
          • Jeanel Walker
            kon ni chi wa I have an idea for you for storage if your interested and you can enjoy some play time too. I made this hollow so i can stash my mundain stuff
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 18, 2010
              kon ni chi wa

              I have an idea for you for storage if your interested and you can enjoy some play time too. I made this hollow so i can stash my mundain stuff in...just a thought and its not hard to make
              http://iolii.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d20v69t

              http://iolii.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d20wl2i

              http://iolii.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d20vvzh

              http://iolii.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d20vv7u

              May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
              Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takaatsu" of Kisimull
              http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
              http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


              --- On Mon, 10/18/10, Dean Wayland <dean@...> wrote:

              From: Dean Wayland <dean@...>
              Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Chests
              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, October 18, 2010, 10:22 AM







               









              Greetings Kiri-dono, et all,



              >To be honest, I'm not sure how far back they go, but I do know that at

              >least during some periods in Japan, the tansu was used. Typically, it

              >was made of paulownia or elm with iron fittings. They varied in size

              >but were usually large enough to carry one's possessions when

              >traveling. They could be stacked on on top of another to provide more

              >storage space. When traveling, poles were run through the handles that

              >existed on each end of the tansu. The one reference I found online with

              >a date says that these were used during the Edo period, but I have to

              >believe that something similar must have been used earlier.

              >

              >Kiri



              My group here in the UK, did a lot of research in to these items some

              years ago in an attempt to solve our in-camp storage and transport

              needs. I now have eight, which are used for everything from carrying

              jinmaku (camp curtains), through armour, bedding, clothes and all those

              little things that make life in 16th century Japan so pleasant,

              including my nice new hibachi, Yay, heating!:-)



              The term "tansu" is today used by dealers as a catch all term for chest

              like furniture, but this is because most survivors are of Edo period

              make. The pre-Edo version is called "hitsu", hence the term

              "yoroi-bitsu" for one form of armour chest.



              Our typical hitsu measures 21.5" tall (of that 5" is the lid), by 17.5"

              long, by 16" wide, and are made of 1/4" thick wood, normally pine, but

              also paulownia, elm (zelkova) and cypress. We have a few that were made

              out of 1/2" wood so they could be sat on or stood on, but they are heavy

              to carry, and so all our new ones are thinner. We do have larger ones,

              but again they end up too heavy when loaded, to be comfortable. Most are

              painted to seal them from the weather, but some are plain wood. The

              joints are simple comb joints in most cases. We're going to be building

              some nagamochi, long chests, for carrying lightweight but bulky items

              like futons.



              The narrow end can be fitted with either metal or rope handles for

              portage purposes, using a rectangular pole and a couple of peasants -

              which are never around when you want them.



              We had a black smith turn out several dozen handle sets for us, and they

              work superbly. Now loading and unloading is a dream, we wouldn't be

              without them, and they really make the campsite look excellent.



              Anyway I highly recommend the following book, which although it

              concentrates on the Edo period has a wealth of information on kit from

              as early as the Heian era, right through to Meiji and Taisho. At the

              back is a stunningly useful visual history of different types of kit.

              For example, lighting, bedding and cooking gear.



              http://www.amazon.com/Traditional-Japanese-Furniture-Kazuko-Koizumi/dp/08

              7011722X#_



              Anyway, I hope this helps.



              Yours



              Dean



              (SHOGUN: 1543-1640)

              http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk/SHOGUN.htm

























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • James Eckman
              Posted by: Dean Wayland ... Yes that is an awesome book, there s another one much like it that when I can remember the name I will send it along. If I get
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 18, 2010
                Posted by: "Dean Wayland"

                > Traditional Japanese Furniture Kazuko Koizumi

                Yes that is an awesome book, there's another one much like it that when
                I can remember the name I will send it along. If I get some free time, I
                do plan a tansu for my art supplies!

                Jim
              • James Eckman
                *Not the one I was talking about but... Traditional Japanese chests : a definitive guide / Kazuko Koizumi Jim * [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 18, 2010
                  *Not the one I was talking about but...
                  Traditional Japanese chests : a definitive guide / Kazuko Koizumi

                  Jim


                  *


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Dean Wayland
                  Hi Jim, ... Ooh, new, published in April. Thanks for that, I am now 23 pounds the poorer, but richer by virtue of having ordered a new book for my library.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 19, 2010
                    Hi Jim,

                    >*Not the one I was talking about but...
                    >Traditional Japanese chests : a definitive guide / Kazuko Koizumi
                    >
                    >Jim

                    Ooh, new, published in April. Thanks for that, I am now 23 pounds the
                    poorer, but richer by virtue of having ordered a new book for my
                    library. I'll let you know what I think of it once it arrives.

                    All the best

                    Dean

                    --
                    Dean Wayland
                    Head Of The Fight School
                    http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
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