Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Female name help

Expand Messages
  • Jeremy
    Greeting noble cousins! As I am sure everyone here know finding a source for a pre-edo female name is difficult. I am training a new female fighter in my
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 16, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Greeting noble cousins! As I am sure everyone here know finding a source for a pre-edo female name is difficult. I am training a new female fighter in my local group. She wants to have a japanese persona like mine. I am having trouble with the documentation part of submitting a name for her. She has been going by Yoshihide Kikuyo no Katano. She love the Kiku part because the chrysathimum is her favorite flower. Just looking for some help if at all possible. Btw going with Muromachi period. Somewhere around 1500.

      thanks in advance
      Hideyoshi Yoshimitsu
    • Ben Overmyer
      First question: can you read Japanese? Yours in service, Sagara Tsuyoshi ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 16, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        First question: can you read Japanese?

        Yours in service,
        Sagara Tsuyoshi

        On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Jeremy <jjmallory@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Greeting noble cousins! As I am sure everyone here know finding a source
        > for a pre-edo female name is difficult. I am training a new female fighter
        > in my local group. She wants to have a japanese persona like mine. I am
        > having trouble with the documentation part of submitting a name for her. She
        > has been going by Yoshihide Kikuyo no Katano. She love the Kiku part because
        > the chrysathimum is her favorite flower. Just looking for some help if at
        > all possible. Btw going with Muromachi period. Somewhere around 1500.
        >
        > thanks in advance
        > Hideyoshi Yoshimitsu
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • LJonthebay
        ... I ll defer to the name mavens, but I happen to have the book in reach so I ll take a crack at it. Someone correct me if I get it wrong.... Women s names
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 16, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jjmallory@...> wrote:

          > I am having trouble with the documentation part of submitting a name for her. She has been going by Yoshihide Kikuyo no Katano. She love the Kiku part because the chrysathimum is her favorite flower. Just looking for some help if at all possible. Btw going with Muromachi period. Somewhere around 1500.

          I'll defer to the name mavens, but I happen to have the book in reach so I'll take a crack at it. Someone correct me if I get it wrong....

          Women's names are Surname + Given Name. The "no" is used with certain types of surnames (I just did battle with the College of Heralds over whether I could use it with the one I chose), but had fallen out of use by the Muromachi period.

          "Kiku" appears on p. 164 of "Name Construction in Medieval Japan" as a feminine name from the Muromachi period. (Also listed are Kikumatsu and Kikume from the Kamakura period).

          "Yoshihide" is listed as a nanori or man's given name, not a surname. It also appears in Solveig-sensei's article on men's names at the St. Gabriel website:
          http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/solveig/nanori/

          I find no listing for "Katano." Wikipedia lists a city in Osaka, but it was founded in the 20th century. I don't know if there was a place name "Katano" during our period.

          Anybody? Bueller-dono?

          Saionji no Hana
          West Kingdom
        • the.lady.phoenix@gmail.com
          What I did for someone in SIngapore was I found out What Singapore was named in period. How about the same here? Just find out what Kanto was named back
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 16, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            What I did for someone in SIngapore was I found out What Singapore was
            named in period. How about the same here? Just find out what Kanto
            was named back then, like Tokyo was called Edo in period. I could be
            the city is 20th Century, but there were a smattering of Towns in the
            area, sort of like Roma was founding by combining 7 villages on 7
            hills that were close to each other, now Roma is so old those Villages
            (if they existed, after all this example is a legend) names have been
            lost to us, however for this example under 200 years old, I'm sure
            that there has to be some record somewhere.

            Sara

            On 16/10/2010, LJonthebay <wodeford@...> wrote:
            > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jjmallory@...> wrote:
            >
            >> I am having trouble with the documentation part of submitting a name for
            >> her. She has been going by Yoshihide Kikuyo no Katano. She love the Kiku
            >> part because the chrysathimum is her favorite flower. Just looking for
            >> some help if at all possible. Btw going with Muromachi period. Somewhere
            >> around 1500.
            >
            > I'll defer to the name mavens, but I happen to have the book in reach so
            > I'll take a crack at it. Someone correct me if I get it wrong....
            >
            > Women's names are Surname + Given Name. The "no" is used with certain types
            > of surnames (I just did battle with the College of Heralds over whether I
            > could use it with the one I chose), but had fallen out of use by the
            > Muromachi period.
            >
            > "Kiku" appears on p. 164 of "Name Construction in Medieval Japan" as a
            > feminine name from the Muromachi period. (Also listed are Kikumatsu and
            > Kikume from the Kamakura period).
            >
            > "Yoshihide" is listed as a nanori or man's given name, not a surname. It
            > also appears in Solveig-sensei's article on men's names at the St. Gabriel
            > website:
            > http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/solveig/nanori/
            >
            > I find no listing for "Katano." Wikipedia lists a city in Osaka, but it was
            > founded in the 20th century. I don't know if there was a place name "Katano"
            > during our period.
            >
            > Anybody? Bueller-dono?
            >
            > Saionji no Hana
            > West Kingdom
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... 1. The Muromachi period is rather late for extroverted women, but this is the SCA after all. So, pretty much nobody
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 16, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!

              > Greeting noble cousins! As I am sure everyone here know finding a
              > source for a pre-edo female name is difficult. I am training a new
              > female fighter in my local group. She wants to have a japanese
              > persona like mine. I am having trouble with the documentation part
              > of submitting a name for her. She has been going by Yoshihide
              > Kikuyo no Katano. She love the Kiku part because the chrysathimum
              > is her favorite flower. Just looking for some help if at all
              > possible. Btw going with Muromachi period. Somewhere around 1500.


              1. The Muromachi period is rather late for extroverted women, but this
              is the SCA after all. So, pretty much nobody will say boo. For that
              matter, Tsunoda only devotes 26 pages to the Muromachi period between
              the Kamakura period and the Momoya period. By way of contrast, the
              discussion of the Muromachi starts around page 200.
              2. You pretty much are not going to be including possessive -no- in
              the Muromachi period. Regardless, the -no- particle is not correctly
              used in the proposed name. About all I can find in Tsunoda for a
              pattern during the Muromachi period would be the use of -no- to make a
              compound family name.
              3. As already noted, Yoshihide is a masculine nanori and would not
              appear in your friend's name.
              4. Does Katano have any particular significance fo you folks? I
              suggest writing it 片野 and documenting it as a constructed toponymic
              family name.
              5. Proper order is <family name><given name>
              6. I'm fairly certain that the -yo suffix is too recent for the
              Muromachi period. About all that can be found is Senchiyo 千千代 and
              Chiyo 千代 which you can see are formed using a number so -yo does
              not appear to be a free form during the Muromachi period. During the
              early Muromachi, we are still seeing women with names ending in -me 女
              High born women rather commonly still had names ending in -ko 子.
              During the late Muromachi we find names without a suffix.

              So we have something like: Katano Kikuko 片野菊子, Katano Kikume 片
              野菊女, or Katano Kiku 片野菊 or something like that.

              Ref. Tsunoda Bun'ei. Nihon no Joseimei (2006). ISBN: 4-336-04745-6

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
            • Solveig Throndardottir
              Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! I just thought that I would mention that Tsunoda does note the use of -no- with uji names during the Muromachi period.
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 16, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Noble Cousins!

                Greetings from Solveig! I just thought that I would mention that
                Tsunoda does note the use of -no- with uji names during the Muromachi
                period.

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar
              • Jeremy
                I wish I could. I have been learning some of the spoken language over the last few years, kanji Is a bit beyond me at this point.
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 17, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  I wish I could. I have been learning some of the spoken language over the last few years, kanji Is a bit beyond me at this point.

                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Ben Overmyer <manatrance@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > First question: can you read Japanese?
                  >
                  > Yours in service,
                  > Sagara Tsuyoshi
                  >
                  > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Jeremy <jjmallory@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Greeting noble cousins! As I am sure everyone here know finding a source
                  > > for a pre-edo female name is difficult. I am training a new female fighter
                  > > in my local group. She wants to have a japanese persona like mine. I am
                  > > having trouble with the documentation part of submitting a name for her. She
                  > > has been going by Yoshihide Kikuyo no Katano. She love the Kiku part because
                  > > the chrysathimum is her favorite flower. Just looking for some help if at
                  > > all possible. Btw going with Muromachi period. Somewhere around 1500.
                  > >
                  > > thanks in advance
                  > > Hideyoshi Yoshimitsu
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Jeremy
                  Thank you all for the assistance. I think I am on the right track now. After deliberation with my student, we have descided to go with Yoshida Kiku. I have
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 17, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank you all for the assistance. I think I am on the right track now. After deliberation with my student, we have descided to go with Yoshida Kiku. I have already gotten the documentation for both. Again thank you so very much.
                    Yours in service
                    Hideyoshi Yoshimitsu

                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy" <jjmallory@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Greeting noble cousins! As I am sure everyone here know finding a source for a pre-edo female name is difficult. I am training a new female fighter in my local group. She wants to have a japanese persona like mine. I am having trouble with the documentation part of submitting a name for her. She has been going by Yoshihide Kikuyo no Katano. She love the Kiku part because the chrysathimum is her favorite flower. Just looking for some help if at all possible. Btw going with Muromachi period. Somewhere around 1500.
                    >
                    > thanks in advance
                    > Hideyoshi Yoshimitsu
                    >
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.