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Hitatare How-to

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  • Joshua Badgley
    Okay, I want to make a good hitatare for fighting now, and I m wonderfing how I could modify any of the patterns that I have for a proper yoroi-hitatare.
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 27, 2000
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      Okay, I want to make a good hitatare for fighting now, and I'm wonderfing
      how I could modify any of the patterns that I have for a proper
      yoroi-hitatare. First of all, the hitatare of the Sengoku Era seem to
      have cords across them, and hang slightly open. Do they not have the
      front two panels that I see in the designs of other such garments, with
      the elongated trapezoidal shape? That would be one way I could conceive
      of doing it. Or did they just let it hang open? The one garment I've
      tried so far doesn't seem to want to hang open like that, however.

      I assume the sleeves should be fairly tight so that they don't bunch up
      much under the kote. Should they connect on the top like many other
      kimono or in the back like a suikan?

      Unfortunately this costume book does not appear to have an actual
      'hitatare' in it, but I think I can puzzle it out from the designes. I
      was just wondering what experiences others had had.

      -Ii Saburou
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      I don t know if you re up late or up early. ... With the overlap, it s not that much different than a kimono; the opening actually overlaps near the waist.
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 27, 2000
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        I don't know if you're up late or up early. <G>

        Joshua Badgley wrote:

        > Okay, I want to make a good hitatare for fighting now, and I'm wonderfing
        > how I could modify any of the patterns that I have for a proper
        > yoroi-hitatare. First of all, the hitatare of the Sengoku Era seem to
        > have cords across them, and hang slightly open.

        With the overlap, it's not that much different than a kimono; the opening
        actually overlaps near the waist. All hitatare have ties; that's part of the
        garment's gestalt. <G>

        > Do they not have the
        > front two panels that I see in the designs of other such garments, with
        > the elongated trapezoidal shape?

        Rectangles. Long rectangles.

        > That would be one way I could conceive
        > of doing it. Or did they just let it hang open? The one garment I've
        > tried so far doesn't seem to want to hang open like that, however.

        It doesn't hang anything, for one thing. It's tucked into the hakama. It
        crosses in front so that the thing looks in front like you're wearing a
        kimono a size or two two small for you; you try to cross over the sides, but
        they don't quite fit. <G>

        >
        >
        > I assume the sleeves should be fairly tight so that they don't bunch up
        > much under the kote.

        Depending on what you feel comfortable with... A normal hitatare sleeve is
        about 26" deep at the sleeve wrist (that means a total circum of 52"), and
        is a rectangle more or less. A yoroi hitatare is tighter in the sleeve,
        perhaps by half. But the sleeve isn't straight in a yoroi hitatare. In a
        normal one, the sleeve is 26" deep at body and wrist; in a yoroi hitatare,
        it's perhaps 14-15" at the wrist and typically about 20 at the body.

        > Should they connect on the top like many other
        > kimono or in the back like a suikan?
        >

        All hitatare sleeves are attached for the first 8-10" or so (front and
        back), and the rest hangs free.

        >
        > Unfortunately this costume book does not appear to have an actual
        > 'hitatare' in it, but I think I can puzzle it out from the designes. I
        > was just wondering what experiences others had had.

        Can you read PDFs? I can e-mail you the PDF file from my garb class that has
        cutting layout patterns and flat F&R views of the hitatare and its various
        cousins.


        Effingham
      • Joshua Badgley
        ... It all depends ;) ... Okay, I ve been working with the hitoe and other patterns in the big costume book I ve got and they usually have four panels in
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 27, 2000
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          On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:

          > I don't know if you're up late or up early. <G>

          It all depends ;)

          > With the overlap, it's not that much different than a kimono; the opening
          > actually overlaps near the waist. All hitatare have ties; that's part of the
          > garment's gestalt. <G>

          Okay, I've been working with the hitoe and other patterns in the big
          costume book I've got and they usually have four panels in front: two
          large panels as large as the panels in back, and two panels that are about
          half that width and nowhere near as long, where the collar attaches to.

          In your diagram I notice that the front two panels are much smaller than
          the back two panels. Using that and the previous garments I tried, I
          think I can pull it off.

          Out of curiosity, did you cut the sleeves like Kosode on p. 174 of the
          'Jidai...Nui-kata' book? The angle really doesn't seem like a 45 degree
          angle, so I would guess not.

          Thank you very much for the PDF file. It was extremely helpful.


          -Ii Saburou
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... But the hitoe has nothing to do with a hitatare... hitoe are underwear for a ho or noshi. (And remember that hitoe aren t sewn closed on the sides!) ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 28, 2000
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            Joshua Badgley wrote:

            >
            > Okay, I've been working with the hitoe and other patterns in the big
            > costume book I've got and they usually have four panels in front: two
            > large panels as large as the panels in back, and two panels that are about
            > half that width and nowhere near as long, where the collar attaches to.

            But the hitoe has nothing to do with a hitatare... hitoe are "underwear" for a ho
            or noshi. (And remember that hitoe aren't sewn closed on the sides!)

            >
            > In your diagram I notice that the front two panels are much smaller than
            > the back two panels. Using that and the previous garments I tried, I
            > think I can pull it off.
            >

            No, you put it on. Let your sweetiepie pull it off. <G>

            >
            > Out of curiosity, did you cut the sleeves like Kosode on p. 174 of the
            > 'Jidai...Nui-kata' book? The angle really doesn't seem like a 45 degree
            > angle, so I would guess not.

            For what? Kosode sleeves and hitatare sleeves are totally different. Now I'm
            confused...

            >
            > Thank you very much for the PDF file. It was extremely helpful.

            I was hoping it might be...


            Effingham
          • rich huff
            greetings effingham-dono, i too would like a copy of that pdf. would like to have more documentation for my files. would like to try some new styles. i
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 28, 2000
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              greetings effingham-dono,

              i too would like a copy of that pdf. would like to have more documentation for my
              files. would like to try some new styles.

              i remember the name eddie-effy mentioned by my duke erin breck gordon.

              hirame no taro kotetsu
              called flounder (that is a whole nother story)

              "Anthony J. Bryant" wrote:

              > >
              > > Thank you very much for the PDF file. It was extremely helpful.
              >
              > I was hoping it might be...
              >
              > Effingham
            • Anthony J. Bryant
              ... I ll do you one better. Go to the SCA-JML files page and look under garb. ... Never heard of him. How is His Grace these days? Please give him my
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 28, 2000
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                rich huff wrote:

                > greetings effingham-dono,
                >
                > i too would like a copy of that pdf. would like to have more documentation for my
                > files. would like to try some new styles.
                >

                I'll do you one better. Go to the SCA-JML files page and look under "garb."

                >
                > i remember the name eddie-effy mentioned by my duke erin breck gordon.
                >

                Never heard of him. <G> How is His Grace these days? Please give him my fond best
                wishes, and tell him I look forward to getting knocked on my butt by him at Pennsic.

                >
                > hirame no taro kotetsu
                > called flounder (that is a whole nother story)

                Do you have a friend called Pinto? <G>

                Effingham
              • rich huff
                greetings, ... done! ... doing well but too busy with mundane life to be at much lately. will pass on the message. ... his nickname didn t stick ... hirame
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 28, 2000
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                  greetings,



                  > I'll do you one better. Go to the SCA-JML files page and look under "garb."
                  >

                  done!

                  > Never heard of him. <G> How is His Grace these days? Please give him my fond best
                  > wishes, and tell him I look forward to getting knocked on my butt by him at Pennsic.
                  >

                  doing well but too busy with mundane life to be at much lately. will pass on the
                  message.

                  >
                  > >
                  > > hirame no taro kotetsu
                  > > called flounder (that is a whole nother story)
                  >
                  > Do you have a friend called Pinto? <G>
                  >

                  his nickname didn't stick <G>

                  >
                  > Effingham

                  hirame no taro kotetsu
                • Marc Choronzey
                  Konichiwa Danshaku Effingham-dono, I also would like a copy of said .pdf file on hitatare. It is a piece of garb not in my how-tos or in my closet. Thanks
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 31, 2000
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                    Konichiwa Danshaku Effingham-dono,

                    I also would like a copy of said .pdf file on hitatare. It is a piece of
                    garb not in my how-tos or in my closet.

                    Thanks loads,

                    -Shimaha.
                    _________________________________________________________________________
                    Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                  • Marc Choronzey
                    Konichiwa Danshaku Effingham-dono, I also would like a copy of said .pdf file. It is a piece still missing to me. Thanks, -Shimaha.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 31, 2000
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                      Konichiwa Danshaku Effingham-dono,

                      I also would like a copy of said .pdf file. It is a piece still missing to
                      me.

                      Thanks,

                      -Shimaha.
                      _________________________________________________________________________
                      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                    • Anthony J. Bryant
                      ... It s in the files section of the SCA-JML egroups page along with a few other things. Effingham
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 2, 2001
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                        Marc Choronzey wrote:

                        > Konichiwa Danshaku Effingham-dono,
                        >
                        > I also would like a copy of said .pdf file on hitatare. It is a piece of
                        > garb not in my how-tos or in my closet.

                        It's in the files section of the SCA-JML egroups page along with a few other
                        things.

                        Effingham
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