Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-JML] Help please!!! im running out of time.

Expand Messages
  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I m still confused. I thought that you were adding text to a picture and asked why add words. There are plenty of
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 15, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      > becouse i dont want to copy something that someone else wrote that
      > would be plagiarism; its my feeling and moto from the meditation to
      > the painting i painted to the words that come from me. its a form of
      > art in it self the whole process. it is similar to one that was
      > already written.

      I'm still confused. I thought that you were adding text to a picture
      and asked why add words. There are plenty of examples of pictures
      without words in Japanese art. If on the other hand you are doing
      something completely calligraphic, then the traditional approach would
      be to use a zen saying taken from a book of zen sayings. Doing so is
      not considered plagiarism in Japanese calligraphic circles. Nor would
      biblical quotations be considered plagiarism in Western European
      circles.

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar
    • JL Badgley
      ... 1) It is only plagiarism if you claim it as your own creation (the words). The calligraphy is separate and yours, unless you are somehow copying from a
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 15, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 5:33 AM, Jeanel Walker <brytephyre@...> wrote:
        > becouse i dont want to copy something that  someone else wrote that would be plagiarism; its my feeling and moto from the meditation to the painting i painted to the words that come from me. its a form of art in it self the whole process. it is similar to one that was already written.
        >

        1) It is only plagiarism if you claim it as your own creation (the
        words). The calligraphy is separate and yours, unless you are somehow
        copying from a different scroll.

        2) Usually the words on a scroll were not the words of the painter.
        They were often a poem or poetic allusion that was either added later,
        by later owners, or was taken by the artist from a well-known poem or
        poet and used to further illustrate the inspiration behind the
        painting. This is all very much a Chinese idea, anyway. I'm not sure
        how much the Japanese added calligraphy to their paintings. Rather,
        they were more likely to add a small painting at the bottom of their
        calligraphy (and that was often very Zen in its form and application)

        -Ii
      • sekinakagawa@aol.com
        I am so sorry, but I believe the lady asked for help, no a lecture of what it is or is not, she just stated this is something coming from her and a form of
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 16, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          I am so sorry, but I believe the lady asked for help, no a lecture of what
          it is or is not, she just stated this is something coming from her and a
          form of art, is like artistic signature. So, if all she wants is a
          translation why the long speech? either someone help with it or save the debate for
          a different time when she is not press with time constrains. Sorry if I
          sound snappy, I have nothing but respect for all of you and great admiration
          of your skills and knowledge.

          Humbly,
          Sukeie

          To ask a question may be a moments' shame,
          But not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jeanel Walker
          Thank you I am touched by your words, but didnt mean to start friction. I did do my research and I believe in my heart that I got the meaning right. its not
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 16, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Thank you I am touched by your words, but didnt mean to start friction. I did do my research and I believe in my heart that I got the meaning right. its not just a painting or kanji its "a way" much like the samurai way of doing things. in fact the artist was compaired to the samrai in several books i read. It is the process the flow and the wisdom that come from the practice with the brush. in japan the words were just as important not to over shadow or be obscure from the painting and the light that it was brought forth.

            May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
            Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takaatsu" of Kisimull
            http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
            http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


            --- On Thu, 9/16/10, sekinakagawa@... <sekinakagawa@...> wrote:

            From: sekinakagawa@... <sekinakagawa@...>
            Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Help please!!! im running out of time.
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 12:39 PM







             













            I am so sorry, but I believe the lady asked for help, no a lecture of what

            it is or is not, she just stated this is something coming from her and a

            form of art, is like artistic signature. So, if all she wants is a

            translation why the long speech? either someone help with it or save the debate for

            a different time when she is not press with time constrains. Sorry if I

            sound snappy, I have nothing but respect for all of you and great admiration

            of your skills and knowledge.



            Humbly,

            Sukeie



            To ask a question may be a moments' shame,

            But not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... It sounds like people may be trivializing the translation problem. Japanese rhetoric and poetics have conventions
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 16, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!
              > I am so sorry, but I believe the lady asked for help, no a lecture
              > of what
              > it is or is not, she just stated this is something coming from her
              > and a
              > form of art, is like artistic signature. So, if all she wants is a
              > translation why the long speech? either someone help with it or
              > save the debate for
              > a different time when she is not press with time constrains. Sorry
              > if I
              > sound snappy, I have nothing but respect for all of you and great
              > admiration
              > of your skills and knowledge.

              It sounds like people may be trivializing the translation problem.
              Japanese rhetoric and poetics have conventions which are rather
              different from those in English. The lady in question posted a text
              which is personally meaningful to her in English. It may well have
              employed idiom and other linguistic features which make a good
              translation difficult and frequently awkward sounding in Japanese.
              Various things said in this discussion suggests that she may be
              looking for formula translation. Formula translation seldom produces
              good text. Try using babelfish on Japanese text for a while and you
              will see just how garbled the text produced by formula translation can
              be. Further, some of what she wrote involves semantic categories which
              do not necessarily map well into Japanese. Yes, the words are mostly
              there. Some of them may well be neologisms dating to the occupation or
              perhaps the Meiji Restoration. Among other things, the most common
              translation for "free" (a nice robust Anglo-Saxon word) or freedom is
              a dithematic word employing onyomi (Chinese readings). This is sort of
              like dropping scientific terminology employing Greek and Latin roots
              into your love letters.

              Ultimately, producing decent Japanese text for her would itself be a
              work of authorship. I am personally interested in what her painting
              looks like. I would also have been in a much better position to try to
              help her if she had simply come up with meanings that she would be
              interested in. Even so, some of the meanings she may be looking for
              may themselves be ethnologically unnatural for pre-modern Japanese.
              This unnaturalness generally results in rather unnatural linguistic
              expression.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.