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Help please!!! im running out of time.

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  • Jeanel Walker
    hello and greetings im under a deadline and im so sorry but i thought i had what i need but lost it. im entering the arts and science in this weekends event
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 14, 2010
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      hello and greetings im under a deadline and im so sorry but i thought i had what i need but lost it.
      im entering the arts and science in this weekends event and i need a translation for

      "to live freely like rushing water over a mountain fearless and bold. to fly and sore among the clouds"

      I painted the sumi-e and cant find my kanji

      if anyone can help i would be forever in your debt.

      May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
      Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takaatsu" of Kisimull
      http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
      http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jeanel Walker
      scratch that I think I got it found the site to translate English to Japanese and downloaded the fonts reader so i can read it sorry to disturb you guys wish
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 15, 2010
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        scratch that I think I got it found the site to translate English to Japanese and downloaded the fonts reader so i can read it
        sorry to disturb you guys
        wish me luck

        May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
        Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takaatsu" of Kisimull
        http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
        http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


        --- On Tue, 9/14/10, Jeanel Walker <brytephyre@...> wrote:

        From: Jeanel Walker <brytephyre@...>
        Subject: [SCA-JML] Help please!!! im running out of time.
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 10:37 PM







         









        hello and greetings im under a deadline and im so sorry but i thought i had what i need but lost it.

        im entering the arts and science in this weekends event and i need a translation for



        "to live freely like rushing water over a mountain fearless and bold. to fly and sore among the clouds"



        I painted the sumi-e and cant find my kanji



        if anyone can help i would be forever in your debt.



        May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!

        Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takaatsu" of Kisimull

        http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg

        http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... It just doesn t sound all that Japanese. Why bother putting writing on your picture? Your Humble Servant Solveig
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 15, 2010
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          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig!
          > "to live freely like rushing water over a mountain fearless and
          > bold. to fly and sore among the clouds"
          It just doesn't sound all that Japanese. Why bother putting writing on
          your picture?

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
        • Jeanel Walker
          becouse i dont want to copy something that  someone else wrote that would be plagiarism; its my feeling and moto from the meditation to the painting i painted
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 15, 2010
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            becouse i dont want to copy something that  someone else wrote that would be plagiarism; its my feeling and moto from the meditation to the painting i painted to the words that come from me. its a form of art in it self the whole process. it is similar to one that was already written.

            May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
            Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takaatsu" of Kisimull
            http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
            http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


            --- On Wed, 9/15/10, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:

            From: Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...>
            Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Help please!!! im running out of time.
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 4:22 PM







             









            Noble Cousin!



            Greetings from Solveig!

            > "to live freely like rushing water over a mountain fearless and

            > bold. to fly and sore among the clouds"

            It just doesn't sound all that Japanese. Why bother putting writing on

            your picture?



            Your Humble Servant

            Solveig Throndardottir

            Amateur Scholar

























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... I m still confused. I thought that you were adding text to a picture and asked why add words. There are plenty of
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 15, 2010
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              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!

              > becouse i dont want to copy something that someone else wrote that
              > would be plagiarism; its my feeling and moto from the meditation to
              > the painting i painted to the words that come from me. its a form of
              > art in it self the whole process. it is similar to one that was
              > already written.

              I'm still confused. I thought that you were adding text to a picture
              and asked why add words. There are plenty of examples of pictures
              without words in Japanese art. If on the other hand you are doing
              something completely calligraphic, then the traditional approach would
              be to use a zen saying taken from a book of zen sayings. Doing so is
              not considered plagiarism in Japanese calligraphic circles. Nor would
              biblical quotations be considered plagiarism in Western European
              circles.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
            • JL Badgley
              ... 1) It is only plagiarism if you claim it as your own creation (the words). The calligraphy is separate and yours, unless you are somehow copying from a
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 15, 2010
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                On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 5:33 AM, Jeanel Walker <brytephyre@...> wrote:
                > becouse i dont want to copy something that  someone else wrote that would be plagiarism; its my feeling and moto from the meditation to the painting i painted to the words that come from me. its a form of art in it self the whole process. it is similar to one that was already written.
                >

                1) It is only plagiarism if you claim it as your own creation (the
                words). The calligraphy is separate and yours, unless you are somehow
                copying from a different scroll.

                2) Usually the words on a scroll were not the words of the painter.
                They were often a poem or poetic allusion that was either added later,
                by later owners, or was taken by the artist from a well-known poem or
                poet and used to further illustrate the inspiration behind the
                painting. This is all very much a Chinese idea, anyway. I'm not sure
                how much the Japanese added calligraphy to their paintings. Rather,
                they were more likely to add a small painting at the bottom of their
                calligraphy (and that was often very Zen in its form and application)

                -Ii
              • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                I am so sorry, but I believe the lady asked for help, no a lecture of what it is or is not, she just stated this is something coming from her and a form of
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 16, 2010
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                  I am so sorry, but I believe the lady asked for help, no a lecture of what
                  it is or is not, she just stated this is something coming from her and a
                  form of art, is like artistic signature. So, if all she wants is a
                  translation why the long speech? either someone help with it or save the debate for
                  a different time when she is not press with time constrains. Sorry if I
                  sound snappy, I have nothing but respect for all of you and great admiration
                  of your skills and knowledge.

                  Humbly,
                  Sukeie

                  To ask a question may be a moments' shame,
                  But not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jeanel Walker
                  Thank you I am touched by your words, but didnt mean to start friction. I did do my research and I believe in my heart that I got the meaning right. its not
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 16, 2010
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                    Thank you I am touched by your words, but didnt mean to start friction. I did do my research and I believe in my heart that I got the meaning right. its not just a painting or kanji its "a way" much like the samurai way of doing things. in fact the artist was compaired to the samrai in several books i read. It is the process the flow and the wisdom that come from the practice with the brush. in japan the words were just as important not to over shadow or be obscure from the painting and the light that it was brought forth.

                    May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                    Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takaatsu" of Kisimull
                    http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                    http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


                    --- On Thu, 9/16/10, sekinakagawa@... <sekinakagawa@...> wrote:

                    From: sekinakagawa@... <sekinakagawa@...>
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Help please!!! im running out of time.
                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 12:39 PM







                     













                    I am so sorry, but I believe the lady asked for help, no a lecture of what

                    it is or is not, she just stated this is something coming from her and a

                    form of art, is like artistic signature. So, if all she wants is a

                    translation why the long speech? either someone help with it or save the debate for

                    a different time when she is not press with time constrains. Sorry if I

                    sound snappy, I have nothing but respect for all of you and great admiration

                    of your skills and knowledge.



                    Humbly,

                    Sukeie



                    To ask a question may be a moments' shame,

                    But not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Solveig Throndardottir
                    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... It sounds like people may be trivializing the translation problem. Japanese rhetoric and poetics have conventions
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 16, 2010
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                      Noble Cousin!

                      Greetings from Solveig!
                      > I am so sorry, but I believe the lady asked for help, no a lecture
                      > of what
                      > it is or is not, she just stated this is something coming from her
                      > and a
                      > form of art, is like artistic signature. So, if all she wants is a
                      > translation why the long speech? either someone help with it or
                      > save the debate for
                      > a different time when she is not press with time constrains. Sorry
                      > if I
                      > sound snappy, I have nothing but respect for all of you and great
                      > admiration
                      > of your skills and knowledge.

                      It sounds like people may be trivializing the translation problem.
                      Japanese rhetoric and poetics have conventions which are rather
                      different from those in English. The lady in question posted a text
                      which is personally meaningful to her in English. It may well have
                      employed idiom and other linguistic features which make a good
                      translation difficult and frequently awkward sounding in Japanese.
                      Various things said in this discussion suggests that she may be
                      looking for formula translation. Formula translation seldom produces
                      good text. Try using babelfish on Japanese text for a while and you
                      will see just how garbled the text produced by formula translation can
                      be. Further, some of what she wrote involves semantic categories which
                      do not necessarily map well into Japanese. Yes, the words are mostly
                      there. Some of them may well be neologisms dating to the occupation or
                      perhaps the Meiji Restoration. Among other things, the most common
                      translation for "free" (a nice robust Anglo-Saxon word) or freedom is
                      a dithematic word employing onyomi (Chinese readings). This is sort of
                      like dropping scientific terminology employing Greek and Latin roots
                      into your love letters.

                      Ultimately, producing decent Japanese text for her would itself be a
                      work of authorship. I am personally interested in what her painting
                      looks like. I would also have been in a much better position to try to
                      help her if she had simply come up with meanings that she would be
                      interested in. Even so, some of the meanings she may be looking for
                      may themselves be ethnologically unnatural for pre-modern Japanese.
                      This unnaturalness generally results in rather unnatural linguistic
                      expression.

                      Your Humble Servant
                      Solveig Throndardottir
                      Amateur Scholar
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