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Re: [SCA-JML] Fortune telling

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  • JESSICA DODGE
    Have you tried using the word Divinatoin, or Soothsaying instead of Fortune telling  You will come up with better results.   Also, you may want to read
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 2, 2010
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      Have you tried using the word "Divinatoin," or "Soothsaying" instead of "Fortune telling"
       You will come up with better results.
       
      Also, you may want to read the Kojiki (You can find for free at Sacredtexts.com) for references for documentatoin. In my studies of Shinto, I know that the sticks have been used for centuries, but they will have traditional chinese peoms to go with them. I am going to use them myself for a Tsumo tourney booth, hopefully next year.
       
      It's okay to use the chinese Buddist ways, even in a Shinto Shrine setting. (without going through all my documentation) I know that by the time a Japanese Emperor tried to seperate buddist and shinto, it was too late. The two religions were so incorperated each other, it was an impossible task. That is why the older shrines in Japan have buddist statues.
       
      You will also find refferences to Japanese Divinatoin in folklore.
       
      Hope this helps,
      Lady Helena Panier (Hotaru Hayashida)

      --- On Thu, 9/2/10, merlyn_elzebeth <athanasiaseraphina@...> wrote:


      From: merlyn_elzebeth <athanasiaseraphina@...>
      Subject: [SCA-JML] Fortune telling
      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 9:38 AM


       



      Greetings all!

      I'm thinking about running a fun little fortune telling booth at an upcoming Japanese event. I've found only a little information online and did not find anything in the jml archives (I searched for "fortune telling".) Thus far I've come up with kau cim sticks or zeichi ku sticks, omikuji, and those shaped pieces of wood (I can't remember the name off hand) that answer yes/no/try again/the gods laugh at you.

      I'm not sure about the history or even the age of these methods. While my primary agenda is just to bring smiles to event attendees' faces, I personally would like to know some history about the subject.

      Any comments or suggestions?

      Thank you all so much,
      Merlyn











      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • merlyn_elzebeth
      Thank you for your prompt reply, I will try these search terms (and others I ve brainstormed) whenever the Yahoo search function actually...functions. By the
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 2, 2010
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        Thank you for your prompt reply,

        I will try these search terms (and others I've brainstormed) whenever the Yahoo search function actually...functions.

        By the way,
        Does anyone have the .doc file referenced in this 2005 email? The link listed is dead.

        Thank you,
        Merlyn


        >>>"This is a bit late, and I can't recall who wanted a copy, so I figure it
        is best to just post the link and let people download it if they are
        interested.

        This began life as a handout for an Asian Night gathering. It has since
        grown into a bit more, and there is still a lot of work on editing and
        research that I have to do, but it will probably stay as it is for the
        time being.

        I want to expand just about everything in there. I really don't talk
        about the He Tu or Lo Shu diagrams as much as I'd like. I also need to
        make sure that my Chinese is all using pinyin, as some of the sources used
        Wade-Giles and I'm not always sure I used the appropriate romanization (I
        have tried to add the appropriate Chinese characters where appropriate, in
        case my romanization is off).

        I also need to find out more about the prohibited directions and their
        links to China. Unfortunately, our best source is in French, and Ellen
        can tell you that my French is horrible, so I've been using her and Alta
        Vista to try to dig into it more.

        Nonetheless, I think that there is a good basic outline of many of the
        concepts I've run across so far including the Yi-Jing, Yin-Yang, the Five
        Elements, and Prohibited Directions.

        Esoteric Buddhism, native Shinto beliefs, and other things such as Fu
        talismans are missing and I want to do more research. However, I'm being
        pushed for a translation elsewhere, first, so I need to put this aside for
        now.

        So, enjoy:

        http://modzer0.cs.uaf.edu/~logan/pub/Divination.doc

        -Ii
      • JESSICA DODGE
        I hope this gets a response! I wasn t here in 2005. Maby Lady Solvieg (spelling?) has it? Lady Helena Panier ... From: merlyn_elzebeth
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 2, 2010
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          I hope this gets a response! I wasn't here in 2005. Maby Lady Solvieg (spelling?) has it?
          Lady Helena Panier

          --- On Thu, 9/2/10, merlyn_elzebeth <athanasiaseraphina@...> wrote:


          From: merlyn_elzebeth <athanasiaseraphina@...>
          Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Fortune telling
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 10:43 AM


           



          Thank you for your prompt reply,

          I will try these search terms (and others I've brainstormed) whenever the Yahoo search function actually...functions.

          By the way,
          Does anyone have the .doc file referenced in this 2005 email? The link listed is dead.

          Thank you,
          Merlyn

          >>>"This is a bit late, and I can't recall who wanted a copy, so I figure it
          is best to just post the link and let people download it if they are
          interested.

          This began life as a handout for an Asian Night gathering. It has since
          grown into a bit more, and there is still a lot of work on editing and
          research that I have to do, but it will probably stay as it is for the
          time being.

          I want to expand just about everything in there. I really don't talk
          about the He Tu or Lo Shu diagrams as much as I'd like. I also need to
          make sure that my Chinese is all using pinyin, as some of the sources used
          Wade-Giles and I'm not always sure I used the appropriate romanization (I
          have tried to add the appropriate Chinese characters where appropriate, in
          case my romanization is off).

          I also need to find out more about the prohibited directions and their
          links to China. Unfortunately, our best source is in French, and Ellen
          can tell you that my French is horrible, so I've been using her and Alta
          Vista to try to dig into it more.

          Nonetheless, I think that there is a good basic outline of many of the
          concepts I've run across so far including the Yi-Jing, Yin-Yang, the Five
          Elements, and Prohibited Directions.

          Esoteric Buddhism, native Shinto beliefs, and other things such as Fu
          talismans are missing and I want to do more research. However, I'm being
          pushed for a translation elsewhere, first, so I need to put this aside for
          now.

          So, enjoy:

          http://modzer0.cs.uaf.edu/~logan/pub/Divination.doc

          -Ii











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Charles Dodge
          Try searching the wayback machine at www.archive.org  You can paste the whole url there and it should pull up all the cached updates for the website. As long
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 2, 2010
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            Try searching the wayback machine at www.archive.org  You can paste the whole url there and it should pull up all the cached updates for the website. As long as the doc was written out on the site you can copy it. If it was a download continue searching the results, sometimes the wayback machine captures the downloads as well.
             
            Nakos

            --- On Thu, 9/2/10, merlyn_elzebeth <athanasiaseraphina@...> wrote:


            From: merlyn_elzebeth <athanasiaseraphina@...>
            Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Fortune telling
            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 10:43 AM


             



            Thank you for your prompt reply,

            I will try these search terms (and others I've brainstormed) whenever the Yahoo search function actually...functions.

            By the way,
            Does anyone have the .doc file referenced in this 2005 email? The link listed is dead.

            Thank you,
            Merlyn

            >>>"This is a bit late, and I can't recall who wanted a copy, so I figure it
            is best to just post the link and let people download it if they are
            interested.

            This began life as a handout for an Asian Night gathering. It has since
            grown into a bit more, and there is still a lot of work on editing and
            research that I have to do, but it will probably stay as it is for the
            time being.

            I want to expand just about everything in there. I really don't talk
            about the He Tu or Lo Shu diagrams as much as I'd like. I also need to
            make sure that my Chinese is all using pinyin, as some of the sources used
            Wade-Giles and I'm not always sure I used the appropriate romanization (I
            have tried to add the appropriate Chinese characters where appropriate, in
            case my romanization is off).

            I also need to find out more about the prohibited directions and their
            links to China. Unfortunately, our best source is in French, and Ellen
            can tell you that my French is horrible, so I've been using her and Alta
            Vista to try to dig into it more.

            Nonetheless, I think that there is a good basic outline of many of the
            concepts I've run across so far including the Yi-Jing, Yin-Yang, the Five
            Elements, and Prohibited Directions.

            Esoteric Buddhism, native Shinto beliefs, and other things such as Fu
            talismans are missing and I want to do more research. However, I'm being
            pushed for a translation elsewhere, first, so I need to put this aside for
            now.

            So, enjoy:

            http://modzer0.cs.uaf.edu/~logan/pub/Divination.doc

            -Ii











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • merlyn_elzebeth
            Thank you, I tried the Internet Archive. Unfortunately, that page was not archived. Figures huh? :) Merlyn
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 3, 2010
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              Thank you,

              I tried the Internet Archive. Unfortunately, that page was not archived. Figures huh? :)

              Merlyn

              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Charles Dodge <greek_nakos@...> wrote:
              >
              > Try searching the wayback machine at www.archive.org  You can paste the whole url there and it should pull up all the cached updates for the website. As long as the doc was written out on the site you can copy it. If it was a download continue searching the results, sometimes the wayback machine captures the downloads as well.
              >  
              > Nakos
              >
            • Audrey Bergeron-Morin
              It s not there, I tried yesterday... And the only other thing you get from the site in the wayback machine is a family picture. ... [Non-text portions of this
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 3, 2010
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                It's not there, I tried yesterday... And the only other thing you get from
                the site in the wayback machine is a family picture.

                On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Charles Dodge <greek_nakos@...> wrote:

                > Try searching the wayback machine at www.archive.org You can paste the
                > whole url there and it should pull up all the cached updates for the
                > website. As long as the doc was written out on the site you can copy it. If
                > it was a download continue searching the results, sometimes the wayback
                > machine captures the downloads as well.
                >
                > Nakos
                >
                > --- On Thu, 9/2/10, merlyn_elzebeth <athanasiaseraphina@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: merlyn_elzebeth <athanasiaseraphina@...>
                > Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Fortune telling
                > To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 10:43 AM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Thank you for your prompt reply,
                >
                > I will try these search terms (and others I've brainstormed) whenever the
                > Yahoo search function actually...functions.
                >
                > By the way,
                > Does anyone have the .doc file referenced in this 2005 email? The link
                > listed is dead.
                >
                > Thank you,
                > Merlyn
                >
                > >>>"This is a bit late, and I can't recall who wanted a copy, so I figure
                > it
                > is best to just post the link and let people download it if they are
                > interested.
                >
                > This began life as a handout for an Asian Night gathering. It has since
                > grown into a bit more, and there is still a lot of work on editing and
                > research that I have to do, but it will probably stay as it is for the
                > time being.
                >
                > I want to expand just about everything in there. I really don't talk
                > about the He Tu or Lo Shu diagrams as much as I'd like. I also need to
                > make sure that my Chinese is all using pinyin, as some of the sources used
                > Wade-Giles and I'm not always sure I used the appropriate romanization (I
                > have tried to add the appropriate Chinese characters where appropriate, in
                > case my romanization is off).
                >
                > I also need to find out more about the prohibited directions and their
                > links to China. Unfortunately, our best source is in French, and Ellen
                > can tell you that my French is horrible, so I've been using her and Alta
                > Vista to try to dig into it more.
                >
                > Nonetheless, I think that there is a good basic outline of many of the
                > concepts I've run across so far including the Yi-Jing, Yin-Yang, the Five
                > Elements, and Prohibited Directions.
                >
                > Esoteric Buddhism, native Shinto beliefs, and other things such as Fu
                > talismans are missing and I want to do more research. However, I'm being
                > pushed for a translation elsewhere, first, so I need to put this aside for
                > now.
                >
                > So, enjoy:
                >
                > http://modzer0.cs.uaf.edu/~logan/pub/Divination.doc
                >
                > -Ii
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
                > Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • JL Badgley
                Well... I m still around. And I have the article... somewhere. Unfortunately, I m in Korea (Warrior s Gate) at the moment. I ll see what I can dig up... there
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 3, 2010
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                  Well... I'm still around. And I have the article... somewhere.
                  Unfortunately, I'm in Korea (Warrior's Gate) at the moment.

                  I'll see what I can dig up... there is a small event today, though, so
                  it may take me a while to get to it.

                  -Ii

                  On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:43 PM, merlyn_elzebeth
                  <athanasiaseraphina@...> wrote:
                  > Thank you,
                  >
                  > I tried the Internet Archive. Unfortunately, that page was not archived. Figures huh? :)
                  >
                  > Merlyn
                  >
                  > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Charles Dodge <greek_nakos@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Try searching the wayback machine at www.archive.org  You can paste the whole url there and it should pull up all the cached updates for the website. As long as the doc was written out on the site you can copy it. If it was a download continue searching the results, sometimes the wayback machine captures the downloads as well.
                  >> Â
                  >> Nakos
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • yamamura_kitsune
                  Greetings Merlyn, Kuji-bozu, from the Middle Kingdom, recently taught a class on Asian divination at Pennsic. I believe this is something that he s taught for
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 4, 2010
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                    Greetings Merlyn,

                    Kuji-bozu, from the Middle Kingdom, recently taught a class on Asian divination at Pennsic. I believe this is something that he's taught for a few years now. You can find his handout at the below link (.PDF File). If that information isn't enough, I'm pretty sure he could answer most of your questions on the matter.

                    http://kuji.windycitywizard.com/Asian%20Divination.pdf

                    Kashiko,
                    Yamamura Kitsune
                    Aruki Miko of the Known World
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    yamamura.kitsune@...
                    http://yamamura.weebly.com


                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "merlyn_elzebeth" <athanasiaseraphina@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Greetings all!
                    >
                    > I'm thinking about running a fun little fortune telling booth at an upcoming Japanese event. I've found only a little information online and did not find anything in the jml archives (I searched for "fortune telling".) Thus far I've come up with kau cim sticks or zeichi ku sticks, omikuji, and those shaped pieces of wood (I can't remember the name off hand) that answer yes/no/try again/the gods laugh at you.
                    >
                    > I'm not sure about the history or even the age of these methods. While my primary agenda is just to bring smiles to event attendees' faces, I personally would like to know some history about the subject.
                    >
                    > Any comments or suggestions?
                    >
                    > Thank you all so much,
                    > Merlyn
                    >
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