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Re: [SCA-JML] RE: Stool Fairness

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  • Bryant Richards
    ... was transmitted to or adopted in Japan. I think something needs to be mentioned here. A couple of you keep saying it doesn t matter if I find it in China,
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 19, 2010
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      >Just because something can be documented to China for the right period doesn't mean it
      was transmitted to or adopted in Japan.

      I think something needs to be mentioned here. A couple of you keep saying it doesn't matter if I find it in China, if it wasn't used in Japan then it doesn't count. You all seem to be forgetting that we are playing in the SCA, where we are considered to be in Europe. We got to Europe somehow from Japan didn't we? We either came by boat or land, we didn't call Scotty and tell him to beam us to Europe. I've noticed that alot on this list, alot of people seem to be under the impression that we are in Japan in the SCA. Well we are not, your persona is in Shire/Barnoy such-and-such in Europe. If you are potraying a Japanese persona then in part of your history you should think about how exactly you got to Shire such-and-such. Did you come by boat? Then you may very well have only Japanese belongings with you. Did you come by land and if so what route? Then you might have things from countries you visited along the way, i.e China. You might also
      consider how long your persona has been in Europe, Have you been around long enough to have adopted things from other countries? Or to have met traders who may have brought things from China?

      I think alot of people need to take a closer look at Japanese Persona in the SCA, instead of just Japanese Persona, there is a difference. I'm not yelling at anyone, i'm just pointing out that for any non-Euro culture in the SCA you shouldn't restrict yourself to things only available in your home country, cause your not IN your home country.

      In Honor and Service,
      Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
      House Chiburi




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • wodeford
      ... I just spent the better part of an hour digging through art books and came up with plenty of evidence for sitting on the floor or the ground. I found one
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 19, 2010
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        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@...> wrote:
        I just spent the better part of an hour digging through art books and came up with plenty of evidence for sitting on the floor or the ground. I found one sculpture of a holy man sitting crossed legged in a chair. I found one painting, purportedly of Takeda Shingen, in full armor, seated on a shogi (x stool). Then I asked myself why I am doing homework for someone who is so married to an idea he refuses to consider the information others have already offered and won't appreciate it. I'm not going to waste the rest of my evening scanning pictures you don't want to look at.

        > I think something needs to be mentioned here. A couple of you keep saying it doesn't matter if I find it in China, if it wasn't used in Japan then it doesn't count. You all seem to be forgetting that we are playing in the SCA, where we are considered to be in Europe.

        Forgive me, but we're not in Europe either. None of us went to Europe, We are guests of the courts of the Kingdom of the Known World, each of which is based on an extremely general and generic European model that it may be populated by and ruled over by personae of various cultures and time periods.

        You can not make something be historical just by wishing it so. You can sit on anything you like, just please don't make up claims for it being something it isn't.

        Saionji no Hanae
        West Kingdom
      • Andrew T Trembley
        ... We re in the SCA kingdoms. The SCA kingdoms feature a bunch of Europeans from different regions and time periods hobnobbing with other folks they would
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 19, 2010
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          On 4/19/2010 7:01 PM, Bryant Richards wrote:
          > I think something needs to be mentioned here. A couple of you keep
          > saying it doesn't matter if I find it in China, if it wasn't used in
          > Japan then it doesn't count. You all seem to be forgetting that we are
          > playing in the SCA, where we are considered to be in Europe. We got to
          > Europe somehow from Japan didn't we?

          We're in the SCA kingdoms. The SCA kingdoms feature a bunch of Europeans
          from different regions and time periods hobnobbing with other folks they
          would never have encountered at home. You might as well ask how all
          these French people got to The Kingdom of the West to hang out with
          Germans, Poles, Russians, Italians, Norsemen, Irish, Scots and others.

          If you want to be Japanese, be Japanese. If you want to be a
          hodge-podge, be a hodge-podge and hardly anybody will know it. That's
          the freedom of recreating an under-represented culture and period.

          This group isn't "hardly anybody" though.

          You presented examples you thought might be appropriate for Japanese
          recreation in the SCA.

          When you present examples like this, we're going to pore over them.
          We're not just going to take on faith that they're what they say they
          are. We're going to evaluate the quality of the documentation. We're
          going to look at the travel crutch and say it's a rationalization. We're
          going to come back with, where possible, examples of actual Japanese
          items that fulfill the same purposes of non-Japanese items and will help
          you build a more Japanese kit.

          In the end, your examples have not been documented to pre-1600 China,
          much less pre-1600 Japan.

          andy
        • JL Badgley
          On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Bryant Richards ... I don t consider myself in Europe--I consider myself in the SCA. We are in a European style court, but
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 19, 2010
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            On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Bryant Richards
            <ninjalikereflex@...> wrote:
            >>Just because something can be documented to China for the right period doesn't mean it
            > was transmitted to or adopted in Japan.
            >
            > I think something needs to be mentioned here.  A couple of you keep saying it doesn't matter if I find it in China, if it wasn't used in Japan then it doesn't count.  You all seem to be forgetting that we are playing in the SCA, where we are considered to be in Europe.

            I don't consider myself in Europe--I consider myself in the SCA. We
            are in a European style court, but how anyone got there is
            questionable.

            That said, I completely agree--And if you are looking for something
            "Period for the SCA" that is different than if you are looking for
            something "Period for Japan". The latter is a subset of the former.

            The issue, I think, is that you are asking people with a Japanese bent
            about Chinese furniture. You really should go to a Chinese group
            (SCA-China, for example) and ask them, as they will be more
            knowledgable.

            > We got to Europe somehow from Japan didn't we?  We either came by boat or land, we didn't call Scotty and tell him to beam us to Europe.  I've noticed that alot on this list, alot of people seem to be under the impression that we are in Japan in the SCA.  Well we are not, your persona is in Shire/Barnoy such-and-such in Europe.

            Nope. It is in an SCA Kingdom. In the same way that the 15th century
            Italian couldn't be at court with a 10th century Norseman (or even a
            10th century Italian). This is a game. Your persona is as much as
            you make of it. For my part, I am my clothes: Whatever I happen to
            use at a given time, that is my "persona", and it can change several
            times at an event. In each case, I don't try to describe how I got to
            this kingdom. It is unimportant.

            So, on both sides, let's calm down and remember that we are playing a
            game and having fun with history.

            >
            > I think alot of people need to take a closer look at Japanese Persona in the SCA, instead of just Japanese Persona, there is a difference.  I'm not yelling at anyone, i'm just pointing out that for any non-Euro culture in the SCA you shouldn't restrict yourself to things only available in your home country, cause your not IN your home country.
            >

            I agree with you here. That's why I study all sorts of things, but I
            don't try to wrangle it into a persona story.

            Having a 16th century Chinese stool is awesome, and perfectly
            appropriate to the SCA. Trying to tell people that a 16th century
            Japanese person would have owned and used that Chinese stool requires
            something more to back it up. Does that make sense?

            I definitely agree that people are being a little too harsh in their
            criticism of using a Chinese stool, but I think it comes from a
            perception that you are trying to be 100% historically accurate, as
            opposed to SCA accurate. Does that make sense?


            -Ii Katsumori
          • Bryant Richards
            ... From the SCA Corpora For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research.
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 19, 2010
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              >Forgive me, but we're not in Europe either
              From the SCA Corpora "For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to the 17th, can serve as a
              source for personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval and
              Renaissance Europe, the less the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time
              and country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest
              at a European court, but you cannot expect others to share your special interests - like any long term
              visitor in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the customs you find
              around you."

              In Honor and Service,
              Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
              House Chiburi




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Solveig Throndardottir
              Noble Cousin! ... It does matter if you are attempting to recreate a person from Japan. The true reality of things is there were no laurel kingdoms anywhere at
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 19, 2010
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                Noble Cousin!

                > I think something needs to be mentioned here. A couple of you keep
                > saying it doesn't matter if I find it in China, if it wasn't used
                > in Japan then it doesn't count. You all seem to be forgetting that
                > we are playing in the SCA, where we are considered to be in
                > Europe. We got to Europe somehow from Japan didn't we?

                It does matter if you are attempting to recreate a person from Japan.
                The true reality of things is there were no laurel kingdoms anywhere
                at all at all in the historical middle ages. I truly wish that the
                Society would simply drop the pretext that court is somehow in Europe
                and simply realize that we are living within the confines of
                something much more akin to the island in the Tempest (by Wm.
                Shakespear). Or possibly in distant Atlantis.

                > We either came by boat or land, we didn't call Scotty and tell him
                > to beam us to Europe.

                The reality is that most people at most Society events are for all
                intents and purposed "beamed up". Most Society events do not have a
                specific European local, AND some events have been explicitly set in
                Japan!! While the College of Arms will not register a Japanese name
                for a territorial group, nobody out there is preventing local groups
                from sponsoring Japanese events!!

                > If you are potraying a Japanese persona then in part of your
                > history you should think about how exactly you got to Shire such-
                > and-such.

                You are perfectly free to work this into your own personal
                recreation. It can even be laudable so long as you aren't using a
                convoluted "persona story" to justify off the wall stuff. Most people
                in the Society, regardless of culture, simply do not bother worrying
                about how their "persona" finds themselves at events. One person in
                this forum likes to note that she opened the door of her ox cart and
                found herself here. Incidentally, the typical SCA group is overrun
                with people from cultures quite different from that to which the name
                of the local group belongs. For example, what are all those arabs,
                slavs, armenians, italians, greeks, moors, &c. &c. doing in
                Sterlyngvale (presumably a nice Saxon shire somewhere around Wessex)
                anyway? The same sort of question can be asked about Delftwood
                (presumably a nice Dutch settlement) where people can meet Koreans,
                Slavs, Romans, Spaniards, Japanese, Germans, &c. &c. at events.

                > Did you come by boat? Then you may very well have only Japanese
                > belongings with you. Did you come by land and if so what route?
                > Then you might have things from countries you visited along the
                > way, i.e China.

                You could spend your whole life in either Jutland or Japan and still
                have had stuff from China. International trade existed during our
                period of interest. Incidentally, there is a rather old painting in
                Japan which practically shouts Iranian/Indian. Nobunaga had a
                cardinal's hat and, as I recall, there are sixteenth century pictures
                of Japanese wearing ruffs in Japan. The question is whether or not
                the stool really fits into recreating things Japanese or whether it
                is just a stool. Nobody is telling you that you can not use your
                stool. What people are saying is that it isn't particularly Japanese
                and that you can easily come up with something which is significantly
                more Japanese. If you want a really spiffy non-Japanese sitting
                appliance, then why not just go for a carved Iberian chair? Iberians
                were all over Japan during the sixteenth century. They had ships.
                And, you have to travel by ship to get off of Japan to the mainland
                anyway.

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar
              • Solveig Throndardottir
                Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! I forgot to point out that the typical SCA throne is a knock down affair which fits right into a Japanese approach to
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 19, 2010
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                  Noble Cousins!

                  Greetings from Solveig! I forgot to point out that the typical SCA
                  throne is a knock down affair which fits right into a Japanese
                  approach to furniture construction. So, I will go out on a limb and
                  say that a TSCA throne works better than a bar stool in a Japanese
                  context. I will now break with my own traditions and attach a
                  "smiley". ;-)

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar
                • ErinK
                  Uesugi-sama! Yes, the second links you sent are much closer to being real documentation, so you re on the right path. However, I m sure that you can
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 20, 2010
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                    Uesugi-sama!

                    Yes, the second links you sent are much closer to being "real" documentation, so you're on the right path. However, I'm sure that you can appreciate that anyone trying to sell something is always suspect - especially with antiques, especially in international (and cross-cultural) commerce, and especially with a country like China that's had great business success by making inexpensive copies of highly valued products.

                    I encourage you to look at paintings from SCA period. Tokyo National Museum (http://www.tnm.go.jp/en/gallery/index.html) has several pieces available online that show people in various activities of daily life (Maple Viewers and Genre Scenes of the 12 Months or some such title come to mind, both are late period). Just because the folks on this list don't remember seeing such a chair doesn't mean it isn't there - I'm still trying to figure out that hat in Maple Viewers that I suddenly "discovered" after looking at that picture 20+ times.

                    Also, my friend and household-mate Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie is a woodworker who's studied Japanese carpentry. He might be able to suggest some projects or resources that you would find useful. Here is the "projects" section of his website (not all are carpentry):
                    http://www.ee0r.com/proj/index.html

                    In any case, I do love these wooden stools. I'm sure they'd look good in your camp or house whether they're documentably Japanese or not.

                    ERIN
                  • Bryant Richards
                    Greetings, Sometimes I think I m just not very good at conveying my meaning through written word. I thought I had mentioned that the stools I showed wheren t
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 20, 2010
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                      Greetings,

                      Sometimes I think I'm just not very good at conveying my meaning through written word. I thought I had mentioned that the stools I showed wheren't exactly period. I wasn't saying that the cross legged folding stool was wrong, hell I agree that it is a more accurate and readily available option then the ones I posted. I guess I thought that some people might be interested in something they could make themselves that would look nice and fit in well enough in a SCA Japanese setting. I couldn't NOT share those patterns, for those that looked at the pattern .pdf they are amazingly detailed, and I know how hard it is for us to find patterns for things in our period sometimes. The curved seat one is even made completely out of wood, no nails, screws, etc.. which I though was neat.

                      Oh and a man named Curtis Evarts, who is supposed to be a leading expert in the field of traditional Chinese Furniture and is the creator of: http://www.chinese-furniture.com/ emailed me back, he said there wasn't much documentation one way or the other for the curved seat stool, but that the design it's self originated from the Shanxi province, which has been around since the Han dynasty before that it was known as the State of Jin.

                      And thank you Erin you seem to have at least caught the jist of what I was trying to say about these stools. Thanks for the links I will look through those sites with great interest.

                      And trust me I know that someone trying to sell something may not be honest, I was a used car sales manager a few years back, and a damned good one too, I didn't get good by always being honest about what I was selling. Not really something to be proud of but making a few thousand dollars a month is one hell of a temptation for a 20 year old. What I was trying to get at was that if hundreds, even thousands of different locations seem to be under the impression that the stool was a replica of an ancient style, then there has to be something to have lead them to that conclusion. Of course I subscribe to the philosophy that all lies/myths/legends contain some truth.

                      In Honor and Service,
                      Uesugi no RyujuichiroUchiyasu
                      House Chiburi




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jennifer Kobayashi
                      ... I find this very interesting, mostly because I don t think of the SCA that way - as a place my persona physically travels to. To me, an SCA event is a
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 20, 2010
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                        >>I think something needs to be mentioned here. A couple of you keep saying it doesn't matter if I find it in China, if it wasn't used in Japan then it doesn't count. You all seem to be forgetting that we are playing in the SCA, where we are considered to be in Europe. We got to Europe somehow from Japan didn't we? We either came by boat or land, we didn't call Scotty and tell him to beam us to Europe. I've noticed that alot on this list, alot of people seem to be under the impression that we are in Japan in the SCA. Well we are not, your persona is in Shire/Barnoy such-and-such in Europe. If you are potraying a Japanese persona then in part of your history you should think about how exactly you got to Shire such-and-such. Did you come by boat? Then you may very well have only Japanese belongings with you. Did you come by land and if so what route? Then you might have things from countries you visited along the way, i.e China. You might also
                        >> consider how long your persona has been in Europe, Have you been around long enough to have adopted things from other countries? Or to have met traders who may have brought things from China?
                        >
                        I find this very interesting, mostly because I don't think of the SCA that way - as a place my persona physically travels to. To me, an SCA event is a mythical, usually European style place, where all pertinent places and _times_ meet. I don't see the point of justifying my persona's geographic presence in Europe when an event is a mish-mash of places and times anyway. There isn't any way to explain the temporal distortion. My Japanese persona may be at a European style court during the day at an SCA event, but she goes home to her daily life at the Japanese court that night. In effect she is "beamed up" - as is my 12th century persona and my Italian Renaissance one. The life of a commediadel'arte actress is almost as strange to the 12th century woman as the Japanese life would be. So my Japanese persona does not travel across Asia to arrive at an event. She is just there; I don't try to explain how she got there. Ditto for the rest of my personas.

                        So I find your point of view interesting - and a legitimate way to look at things. It's just not the way everyone looks at them. One of the fascinating things about the SCA imo.

                        -Jennifer Kobayashi (cause my personas don't care about SCA philosophy)
                        aka Ki no Izumi, Gwendolyn of Middlemarch and Isabella Bonaventura
                      • Scott Ingleman
                        My persona is a 16th century samurai who is one of those all too important envoys to China who brings back culture to my homeland of Japan. I also often
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 24, 2010
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                          My persona is a 16th century samurai who is one of those all too important envoys to China who brings back culture to my homeland of Japan. I also often wonder where all of these pesky Europeans keep coming from, forcing my Knight to cleanse our shores, and therefore call me back to perform martial duties as opposed to my regular academic duty.

                          Senseki Hirotsune
                          Squire to Sir Ogami Akira





                          ________________________________
                          From: Jennifer Kobayashi <jhkob@...>
                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tue, April 20, 2010 5:59:03 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] RE: was Stool Fairness now persona travel to events



                          >>I think something needs to be mentioned here. A couple of you keep saying it doesn't matter if I find it in China, if it wasn't used in Japan then it doesn't count. You all seem to be forgetting that we are playing in the SCA, where we are considered to be in Europe. We got to Europe somehow from Japan didn't we? We either came by boat or land, we didn't call Scotty and tell him to beam us to Europe. I've noticed that alot on this list, alot of people seem to be under the impression that we are in Japan in the SCA. Well we are not, your persona is in Shire/Barnoy such-and-such in Europe. If you are potraying a Japanese persona then in part of your history you should think about how exactly you got to Shire such-and-such. Did you come by boat? Then you may very well have only Japanese belongings with you. Did you come by land and if so what route? Then you might have things from countries you visited along the way, i.e China. You might also
                          >> consider how long your persona has been in Europe, Have you been around long enough to have adopted things from other countries? Or to have met traders who may have brought things from China?
                          >
                          I find this very interesting, mostly because I don't think of the SCA that way - as a place my persona physically travels to. To me, an SCA event is a mythical, usually European style place, where all pertinent places and _times_ meet. I don't see the point of justifying my persona's geographic presence in Europe when an event is a mish-mash of places and times anyway. There isn't any way to explain the temporal distortion. My Japanese persona may be at a European style court during the day at an SCA event, but she goes home to her daily life at the Japanese court that night. In effect she is "beamed up" - as is my 12th century persona and my Italian Renaissance one. The life of a commediadel' arte actress is almost as strange to the 12th century woman as the Japanese life would be. So my Japanese persona does not travel across Asia to arrive at an event. She is just there; I don't try to explain how she got there. Ditto for the rest of my personas.

                          So I find your point of view interesting - and a legitimate way to look at things. It's just not the way everyone looks at them. One of the fascinating things about the SCA imo.

                          -Jennifer Kobayashi (cause my personas don't care about SCA philosophy)
                          aka Ki no Izumi, Gwendolyn of Middlemarch and Isabella Bonaventura







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • booknerd9
                          ... I ve always had the same view too. For Gaiman fans, I ve seen the SCA as a sort of Inn at World s End, where persons from all over time and space get
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 26, 2010
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                            > I find this very interesting, mostly because I don't think of the SCA that way - as a place my persona physically travels to. To me, an SCA event is a mythical, usually European style place, where all pertinent places and _times_ meet. I don't see the point of justifying my persona's geographic presence in Europe when an event is a mish-mash of places and times anyway. There isn't any way to explain the temporal distortion.
                            >
                            > -Jennifer Kobayashi (cause my personas don't care about SCA philosophy)
                            > aka Ki no Izumi, Gwendolyn of Middlemarch and Isabella Bonaventura
                            >
                            >

                            I've always had the same view too. For Gaiman fans, I've seen the SCA as a sort of Inn at World's End, where persons from all over time and space get sucked into a magical meeting place. Of course, no one actually acknowledges this is what happened to them (;
                          • Jeanel Walker
                            ive heard once you get sucked in you cant get out....biting my nails in fear looking for a way back to my ship May the joy of your past be the worst of your
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 26, 2010
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                              ive heard once you get sucked in you cant get out....biting my nails in fear looking for a way back to my ship

                              May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                              Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takaatsu" of Kisimull
                              http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                              http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


                              --- On Mon, 4/26/10, booknerd9 <Booknerd9@...> wrote:

                              From: booknerd9 <Booknerd9@...>
                              Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: was Stool Fairness now persona travel to events
                              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 11:13 AM







                               











                              > I find this very interesting, mostly because I don't think of the SCA that way - as a place my persona physically travels to. To me, an SCA event is a mythical, usually European style place, where all pertinent places and _times_ meet. I don't see the point of justifying my persona's geographic presence in Europe when an event is a mish-mash of places and times anyway. There isn't any way to explain the temporal distortion.

                              >

                              > -Jennifer Kobayashi (cause my personas don't care about SCA philosophy)

                              > aka Ki no Izumi, Gwendolyn of Middlemarch and Isabella Bonaventura

                              >

                              >



                              I've always had the same view too. For Gaiman fans, I've seen the SCA as a sort of Inn at World's End, where persons from all over time and space get sucked into a magical meeting place. Of course, no one actually acknowledges this is what happened to them (;

























                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Mori Michimori
                              ... Nor is the Inn at World s End the only such venue; it was but one of four such in Gaiman s multiverse. And there is also Poul Anderson s The Old Phoenix ,
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 26, 2010
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                                booknerd9 wrote:
                                > > I find this very interesting, mostly because I don't think of the
                                > > SCA that way - as a place my persona physically travels to. To me,
                                > > an SCA event is a mythical, usually European style place, where all
                                > > pertinent places and _times_ meet. I don't see the point of
                                > > justifying my persona's geographic presence in Europe when an event
                                > > is a mish-mash of places and times anyway. There isn't any way to
                                > > explain the temporal distortion.
                                > >
                                > > -Jennifer Kobayashi (cause my personas don't care about SCA
                                > > philosophy) aka Ki no Izumi, Gwendolyn of Middlemarch and Isabella
                                > > Bonaventura
                                > >
                                >
                                > I've always had the same view too. For Gaiman fans, I've seen the SCA
                                > as a sort of Inn at World's End, where persons from all over time
                                > and space get sucked into a magical meeting place. Of course, no one
                                > actually acknowledges this is what happened to them (;
                                >

                                Nor is the Inn at World's End the only such venue; it was but one of
                                four such in Gaiman's multiverse. And there is also Poul Anderson's "The
                                Old Phoenix", which was a plot device in his "A Midsummer Tempest", glue
                                in "Operation Chaos", and present by implication in "Three Hearts and
                                Three Lions." (Poul Anderson, for the youngsters among you, was a
                                prolific science fiction and fantasy author and was known as Sir Bela of
                                Eastmarch from the earliest days of the Society, in the West.
                                <http://history.westkingdom.org/Year7/Photos/B18.htm> and
                                <http://history.westkingdom.org/Year7/Photos/B21c.htm>)

                                I conducted a seminar on this topic at a recentish Kingdom A&S
                                symposium. My contention is that there are numerous such places,
                                roadhouses, inns, pubs, call them what you will, that appear to those in
                                need, at the moment when things seem most dire. Behind their anonymous
                                doors you will find respite and protection, be it only for a night or
                                for all eternity, and a predictable collection of inhabitants. I have
                                uploaded a file, StopAlongTheWay.pdf, to the Files area; I will delete
                                it in a week's time, but it is there for those who are interested until
                                then. I would be interested in adding material describing a Japanese
                                analogue of the Inn in the space between spaces to that material.

                                My friend, Albrecht, is proprietor of a gasthaus like this in Köln,
                                <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GasthausZumWildenMann/>. Things have been
                                pretty quiet there lately, but I know he welcomes any and all
                                well-mannered folk.

                                Humble regards and wishes for safe travels to you all,

                                Dôshu
                                --
                                Mori Daitarô Michimori-shônagon
                              • Elaine Koogler
                                Gaiman is doing another thing Hallowe en weekend at the House on the Rock in Wisconsin...this time, it s American Gods...It s my birthday weekend and I d
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 26, 2010
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                                  Gaiman is doing another thing Hallowe'en weekend at the House on the
                                  Rock in Wisconsin...this time, it's American Gods...It's my birthday
                                  weekend and I'd really love to go but doubt it's in the cards.

                                  Kiri

                                  Mori Michimori wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > booknerd9 wrote:
                                  > > > I find this very interesting, mostly because I don't think of the
                                  > > > SCA that way - as a place my persona physically travels to. To me,
                                  > > > an SCA event is a mythical, usually European style place, where all
                                  > > > pertinent places and _times_ meet. I don't see the point of
                                  > > > justifying my persona's geographic presence in Europe when an event
                                  > > > is a mish-mash of places and times anyway. There isn't any way to
                                  > > > explain the temporal distortion.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > -Jennifer Kobayashi (cause my personas don't care about SCA
                                  > > > philosophy) aka Ki no Izumi, Gwendolyn of Middlemarch and Isabella
                                  > > > Bonaventura
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I've always had the same view too. For Gaiman fans, I've seen the SCA
                                  > > as a sort of Inn at World's End, where persons from all over time
                                  > > and space get sucked into a magical meeting place. Of course, no one
                                  > > actually acknowledges this is what happened to them (;
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Nor is the Inn at World's End the only such venue; it was but one of
                                  > four such in Gaiman's multiverse. And there is also Poul Anderson's "The
                                  > Old Phoenix", which was a plot device in his "A Midsummer Tempest", glue
                                  > in "Operation Chaos", and present by implication in "Three Hearts and
                                  > Three Lions." (Poul Anderson, for the youngsters among you, was a
                                  > prolific science fiction and fantasy author and was known as Sir Bela of
                                  > Eastmarch from the earliest days of the Society, in the West.
                                  > <http://history.westkingdom.org/Year7/Photos/B18.htm
                                  > <http://history.westkingdom.org/Year7/Photos/B18.htm>> and
                                  > <http://history.westkingdom.org/Year7/Photos/B21c.htm
                                  > <http://history.westkingdom.org/Year7/Photos/B21c.htm>>)
                                  >
                                  > I conducted a seminar on this topic at a recentish Kingdom A&S
                                  > symposium. My contention is that there are numerous such places,
                                  > roadhouses, inns, pubs, call them what you will, that appear to those in
                                  > need, at the moment when things seem most dire. Behind their anonymous
                                  > doors you will find respite and protection, be it only for a night or
                                  > for all eternity, and a predictable collection of inhabitants. I have
                                  > uploaded a file, StopAlongTheWay.pdf, to the Files area; I will delete
                                  > it in a week's time, but it is there for those who are interested until
                                  > then. I would be interested in adding material describing a Japanese
                                  > analogue of the Inn in the space between spaces to that material.
                                  >
                                  > My friend, Albrecht, is proprietor of a gasthaus like this in Köln,
                                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GasthausZumWildenMann/
                                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GasthausZumWildenMann/>>. Things have been
                                  > pretty quiet there lately, but I know he welcomes any and all
                                  > well-mannered folk.
                                  >
                                  > Humble regards and wishes for safe travels to you all,
                                  >
                                  > Dôshu
                                  > --
                                  > Mori Daitarô Michimori-shônagon
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  "/It is only with the heart /that one can see clearly; what is essential
                                  is invisible to the eye."
                                  --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, /The Little Prince/


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • wodeford
                                  The Emperor requires me to represent him at the court of the Kingdom of the West, so I do. That s all you need to know. Saionji no Hanae, dreaming of the day
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 26, 2010
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                                    The Emperor requires me to represent him at the court of the Kingdom of the West, so I do. That's all you need to know.

                                    Saionji no Hanae, dreaming of the day she will be called home.....
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