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Making a Japanese female persona.

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  • wodeford
    Original message appears to have been deleted in error. Apologies from the Moderator! From: Victoria To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 7, 2010
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      Original message appears to have been deleted in error. Apologies from the Moderator!

      From: "Victoria" <victoria@...>
      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com

      I've been thinking about having a Japanese persona for some time now, and since I want to get my SCA membership soon, I would like to bring it all together. I know that a persona isn't needed for membership, but I want one!

      My main interests in Japanese history are military history, art, textiles and maybe one day dance and music (I'd love to learn biwa or one of the fue), but right now I'm not really focused on any particular time period... there's something interesting about all of them! I have considered 15th/16th century though, due to the Sengoku period, and the Heian period due to the fascinating court lives.
      I've got a very faint concept of a persona, mainly based on my real life abilities (as in, lack of sewing skills!) - relatively young, unmarried, not particularly high-ranking but still someone who'd be present at court.

      I'm also rapidly becoming a stick jock, and for now my armour will be black plastic covered with a big tunic but one day I hope to make Japanese armour. It would be absolutely fantastic if I could include my fighting in my persona's story and still stay female - but of course, I'm aware that it isn't necessary in the SCA and is probably unlikely or non-existant historically.
      Any advice?

      As for names, I've been working on it for a while and I've already found out a lot. There's a few things I don't understand though, mainly in the surname/family name area.
      I've heard that women did not use family names in some time periods, they used 'uji' - I've read that uji are something like clan names, but can anyone give me a simple explanation?
    • JL Badgley
      Welcome! ... As someone who does all time periods, play with different eras that you like! ... Remember, your persona story does not have to fit everything you
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 7, 2010
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        Welcome!

        On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 11:29 PM, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

        > My main interests in Japanese history are military history, art, textiles and maybe one day dance and music (I'd love to learn biwa or one of the fue), but right now I'm not really focused on any particular time period... there's something interesting about all of them! I have considered 15th/16th century though, due to the Sengoku period, and the Heian period due to the fascinating court lives.
        > I've got a very faint concept of a persona, mainly based on my real life abilities (as in, lack of sewing skills!) - relatively young, unmarried, not particularly high-ranking but still someone who'd be present at court.

        As someone who does all time periods, play with different eras that you like!

        > I'm also rapidly becoming a stick jock, and for now my armour will be black plastic covered with a big tunic but one day I hope to make Japanese armour. It would be absolutely fantastic if I could include my fighting in my persona's story and still stay female - but of course, I'm aware that it isn't necessary in the SCA and is probably unlikely or non-existant historically.
        > Any advice?

        Remember, your persona story does not have to fit everything you do.
        After all, I do personas from several different centuries (and
        continents): how would I be expected to fit all of that in?

        It is unlikely, not non-existant, to see women fighting in Japan.
        That said, I wouldn't bother justifying it. Just do what you want to
        do. Don't worry that it won't be "justified"

        > As for names, I've been working on it for a while and I've already found out a lot. There's a few things I don't understand though, mainly in the surname/family name area.
        > I've heard that women did not use family names in some time periods, they used 'uji' - I've read that uji are something like clan names, but can anyone give me a simple explanation?

        Okay, "uji" were originally the clans determined by the court; the
        names were regulated, and this was actually part of the way the
        government was structured. Later on, you see the term "uji" thrown
        about, and today people talk about this and that "uji", but there is
        still a distinction between family/clans that arose on their own and
        ones with court sanction.

        Families are just families. Often they are descended from an uji, so
        they are subbranches (though even families could have further
        subbranches, later on). For our purposes, they all work as family
        names, and you would likely be known by that name. Depending on the
        time, place, and situation, you might go by your title, your position,
        your family name, or you uji name (if you have claim to one). It all
        depends on what the occasion is.


        -Ii
      • William Giltner
        Goode lady   If there is NO one period that calls to you and you wish to incorporate your fighting into your personae ...  I would like to mention Tomoe
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 7, 2010
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          Goode lady
            If there is NO one period that calls to you and you wish to incorporate your fighting into your personae ...  I would like to mention Tomoe Gozen to you....  And her retinue of female fighters.

          William S. Giltner

          Lrd Tatsuo Okami

          Iron River Armoury

          www.iron-river-armoury.com

          --- On Sun, 3/7/10, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:


          I'm also rapidly becoming a stick jock, and for now my armour will be black plastic covered with a big tunic but one day I hope to make Japanese armour. It would be absolutely fantastic if I could include my fighting in my persona's story and still stay female - but of course, I'm aware that it isn't necessary in the SCA and is probably unlikely or non-existant historically.

          Any advice?






          <!






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • JL Badgley
          On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 12:16 AM, William Giltner ... Just a note: The historical nature of Tomoe Gozen as a fighter is doubted. Still, it is an example of
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 7, 2010
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            On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 12:16 AM, William Giltner
            <iron_river_armoury@...> wrote:
            > Goode lady
            >   If there is NO one period that calls to you and you wish to incorporate your fighting into your personae ...  I would like to mention Tomoe Gozen to you....  And her retinue of female fighters.
            >
            Just a note: The historical nature of Tomoe Gozen as a fighter is
            doubted. Still, it is an example of the Japanese *idea* of a woman at
            war (as would be Empress Jingu).

            -Ii
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! You can probably best integrate the things that you are interested in if you are from the early Kamakura period. That is
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 7, 2010
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              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig! You can probably best integrate the things
              that you are interested in if you are from the early Kamakura period.
              That is from about the time of the Genpei War up through the Jokyu
              Disturbance. Basically, you will have recognizable military folks
              around, you will be able to own and control land, andd even fight.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
            • Victoria
              Thank you for all the help and good advice! I m quite certain I will end up mixing activities from many different times - I m already finding an interest in
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 8, 2010
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                Thank you for all the help and good advice!
                I'm quite certain I will end up mixing activities from many different times - I'm already finding an interest in European calligraphy.

                That makes much more sense about uji names now, as well as all the given name, nickname, and title mixing that goes on in medieval Japanese history.

                I've heard about Tomoe Gozen, and it's good to hear that even if she is not a traceable historic figure, she was at least a period concept.

                The Kamakura period looks interesting, I'll certainly look into that. So, after the Jokyu period, did women's roles in society become more restricted?
                I've heard of things like kunoichi (something like female ninja/spies, I think) and the wives of samurai learning some combat skills in order to defend their homes in later periods, but it does seem like these are more like women in subservient roles more than independant women making their own choices.
              • Victoria
                I m putting things together very quickly now, after getting my hands on Sei Shonagon s Pillow Book and few books on medieval military history. I want to use
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                  I'm putting things together very quickly now, after getting my hands on Sei Shonagon's Pillow Book and few books on medieval military history.

                  I want to use Torii as a surname, since it sounds quite locative too and I adore those shrine gates. Also, Victoria = Tori = Torii. ^__^

                  Would the names in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/message/26747 be suitable for late Heian/early Kamakura?
                • Jeanel Walker
                  There are a whole bunch of -ko and -me names used by commoners during the Kamakura period listed on pages 166-167. I m getting a bit pooped. I can come back
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                    "There are a whole bunch of -ko and -me names used by

                    commoners during the Kamakura period listed on pages 166-167.



                    I'm getting a bit pooped. I can come back with more names from the

                    Heian period if you wish to be from the Heian period.Your Humble Servant

                    Solveig Throndardottir

                    Amateur Scholar"

                    ohhh please if you can find the time I would be so intrested in female names of the heian to Kamakura period

                    it would be a great help.

                    May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                    Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takinaga" of Kisimull
                    http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                    http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


                    --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Victoria <victoria@...> wrote:

                    From: Victoria <victoria@...>
                    Subject: [SCA-JML] Names for a Japanese female persona.
                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 7:02 AM







                     









                    I'm putting things together very quickly now, after getting my hands on Sei Shonagon's Pillow Book and few books on medieval military history.



                    I want to use Torii as a surname, since it sounds quite locative too and I adore those shrine gates. Also, Victoria = Tori = Torii. ^__^



                    Would the names in http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/sca- jml/message/ 26747 be suitable for late Heian/early Kamakura?

























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • wodeford
                    ... Was this you? The exact same question came up over on the Tousando: http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=3188&page=1
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Victoria" <victoria@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm putting things together very quickly now, after getting my hands on Sei Shonagon's Pillow Book and few books on medieval military history.
                      >
                      > I want to use Torii as a surname, since it sounds quite locative too and I adore those shrine gates. Also, Victoria = Tori = Torii. ^__^
                      >
                      > Would the names in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/message/26747 be suitable for late Heian/early Kamakura?
                      >

                      Was this you? The exact same question came up over on the Tousando:

                      http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=3188&page=1

                      Saionji no Needs A Bowl of Tea
                      West Kingdom
                    • Victoria
                      Yes, that was... I m afraid I m still having trouble deciding. I adore Ume, Momo and Ito, but some of the long names from the list (Ayamachi and Higashi in
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                        Yes, that was... I'm afraid I'm still having trouble deciding. I adore Ume, Momo and Ito, but some of the long names from the list (Ayamachi and Higashi in particular) are just fantastic.
                        I'm afraid I'll never find a name that feels right...
                      • Melanie Wing
                        I feel your pain. It took me over a year to settle on my name. I got myself a copy of *Solveig s **pamphlet* and poured over the names for a long time. I
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                          I feel your pain. It took me over a year to settle on my name. I got
                          myself a copy of *Solveig's **pamphlet* and poured over the names for a long
                          time. I discarded any that seemed overused or complicated to pronounce.
                          Once I had a short list of like 40 personal and 40 surnames I had my
                          daughter read them out to me one at a time.

                          My daughter is an avid anime and manga lover so she helped me cross off any
                          that were popular characters from those so I would not sound like a total
                          fangirl.

                          I also had it registered so I had to keep those rules in mind also.

                          It all paid off in the end when someone else with a Japanese persona
                          referred to Ishikawa-san and I realized he was talking about ME!

                          -Ishikawa Ayame

                          On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Victoria <victoria@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Yes, that was... I'm afraid I'm still having trouble deciding. I adore Ume,
                          > Momo and Ito, but some of the long names from the list (Ayamachi and Higashi
                          > in particular) are just fantastic.
                          > I'm afraid I'll never find a name that feels right...
                          >
                          > __._
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jeanel Walker
                          no im sorry that was not me. May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!! Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora Takinaga of Kisimull
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                            no im sorry that was not me.

                            May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                            Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takinaga" of Kisimull
                            http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                            http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


                            --- On Fri, 3/12/10, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

                            From: wodeford <wodeford@...>
                            Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Names for a Japanese female persona.
                            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 8:03 AM







                             













                            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups .com, "Victoria" <victoria@.. .> wrote:

                            >

                            > I'm putting things together very quickly now, after getting my hands on Sei Shonagon's Pillow Book and few books on medieval military history.

                            >

                            > I want to use Torii as a surname, since it sounds quite locative too and I adore those shrine gates. Also, Victoria = Tori = Torii. ^__^

                            >

                            > Would the names in http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/sca- jml/message/ 26747 be suitable for late Heian/early Kamakura?

                            >



                            Was this you? The exact same question came up over on the Tousando:



                            http://tousando. proboards. com/index. cgi?action= display&board= general&thread= 3188&page= 1



                            Saionji no Needs A Bowl of Tea

                            West Kingdom

























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Bryant Richards
                            My wife loves to knit, crochet, and other similiar things, is there a period Japanese craft that falls in that group? In Honor and Service, Uesugi no
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                              My wife loves to knit, crochet, and other similiar things, is there a period Japanese craft that falls in that group?

                              In Honor and Service,
                              Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
                              House Chiburi





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • JL Badgley
                              On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Bryant Richards ... Fingerloop braiding might come the closest. I ve not seen any evidence that the Japanese knitted;
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                                On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Bryant Richards
                                <ninjalikereflex@...> wrote:
                                > My wife loves to knit, crochet, and other similiar things, is there a period Japanese craft that falls in that group?
                                >
                                Fingerloop braiding might come the closest. I've not seen any
                                evidence that the Japanese knitted; possibly because they didn't have
                                much in the way of wool yarn to work with.

                                -Ii
                              • wodeford
                                ... Kumihimo is a braiding technique that might interest her. It s how armor lacings and other braided cords were produced and it is period. Saionji no Hanae
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
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                                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > My wife loves to knit, crochet, and other similiar things, is there a period Japanese craft that falls in that group?

                                  Kumihimo is a braiding technique that might interest her. It's how armor lacings and other braided cords were produced and it is period.

                                  Saionji no Hanae
                                • Bryant Richards
                                  ... yeah we know about that, I actually do Kumihimo, she doesn t like the braiding, after it just makes cords, she was hoping there was something closer to
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
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                                    >Kumihimo is a braiding technique that might interest her. It's how armor lacings and other braided cords were produced and it is period.


                                    yeah we know about that, I actually do Kumihimo, she doesn't like the braiding, after it just makes cords, she was hoping there was something closer to kniting or crochet


                                    In Honor and Service,
                                    Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
                                    House Chiburi




                                    ________________________________
                                    From: wodeford <wodeford@...>
                                    To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 6:47:04 PM
                                    Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Did the Japanese knit?




                                    --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups .com, Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@ ...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > My wife loves to knit, crochet, and other similiar things, is there a period Japanese craft that falls in that group?

                                    Kumihimo is a braiding technique that might interest her. It's how armor lacings and other braided cords were produced and it is period.

                                    Saionji no Hanae







                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • wodeford
                                    ... Not to my knowledge, sorry. Saionji no Hanae West Kingdom
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
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                                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@...> wrote:

                                      > yeah we know about that, I actually do Kumihimo, she doesn't like the braiding, after it just makes cords, she was hoping there was something closer to kniting or crochet

                                      Not to my knowledge, sorry.

                                      Saionji no Hanae
                                      West Kingdom
                                    • Quokkaqueen
                                      something closer to kniting or crochet What about netting? The knots used in fishing nets might be close to the techniques used in crochet.
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
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                                        <<snip>>
                                        something closer to kniting or crochet
                                        <<snip>>

                                        What about netting? The knots used in fishing nets might be close to the techniques used in crochet.

                                        eg. this looks like it's from a museum display:
                                        http://heritageofjapan.wordpress.com/just-what-was-so-amazing-about-jomon-japan/ways-of-the-jomon-world-2/a-hunting-we-will-go/examining-the-jomon-hunter-gathers-toolkit/

                                        I wouldn't have the foggiest idea where to find more information about it, though.

                                        ~ Asfridhr
                                      • carriepalmer.geo
                                        How did they make socks (tabi) if they didn t knit? There s no evidence of anyone crochet to my knowledge later than the 1800s.
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
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                                          How did they make socks (tabi) if they didn't knit? There's no evidence of anyone crochet to my knowledge later than the 1800s.

                                          --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > <<snip>>
                                          > something closer to kniting or crochet
                                          > <<snip>>
                                          >
                                          > What about netting? The knots used in fishing nets might be close to the techniques used in crochet.
                                          >
                                          > eg. this looks like it's from a museum display:
                                          > http://heritageofjapan.wordpress.com/just-what-was-so-amazing-about-jomon-japan/ways-of-the-jomon-world-2/a-hunting-we-will-go/examining-the-jomon-hunter-gathers-toolkit/
                                          >
                                          > I wouldn't have the foggiest idea where to find more information about it, though.
                                          >
                                          > ~ Asfridhr
                                          >
                                        • Ellen Badgley
                                          On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 8:42 PM, carriepalmer.geo
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
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                                            On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 8:42 PM, carriepalmer.geo <
                                            carriepalmer.geo@...> wrote:

                                            >
                                            >
                                            > How did they make socks (tabi) if they didn't knit? There's no evidence of
                                            > anyone crochet to my knowledge later than the 1800s.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            Tabi (and shitozu, their non-split-toed equivalent) are not knit but sewn.
                                            My husband (Ii-dono) has made his own tabi and shitozu following historical
                                            patterns-- there are fancy brocade shitozu from the 700's in the Shoso-in in
                                            Nara.

                                            - Abe Akirakeiko


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Deb Strub
                                            They were sewn from brocades and/or thin leather. The only knit tabi I ve seen are modern ones. YIS, Tsuruko _____ From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
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                                              They were sewn from brocades and/or thin leather. The only knit tabi I've
                                              seen are modern ones.



                                              YIS,



                                              Tsuruko



                                              _____

                                              From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                              carriepalmer.geo
                                              Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:43 AM
                                              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Did the Japanese knit?





                                              How did they make socks (tabi) if they didn't knit? There's no evidence of
                                              anyone crochet to my knowledge later than the 1800s.

                                              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups <mailto:sca-jml%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
                                              "Quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > <<snip>>
                                              > something closer to kniting or crochet
                                              > <<snip>>
                                              >
                                              > What about netting? The knots used in fishing nets might be close to the
                                              techniques used in crochet.
                                              >
                                              > eg. this looks like it's from a museum display:
                                              > http://heritageofja
                                              <http://heritageofjapan.wordpress.com/just-what-was-so-amazing-about-jomon-j
                                              apan/ways-of-the-jomon-world-2/a-hunting-we-will-go/examining-the-jomon-hunt
                                              er-gathers-toolkit/>
                                              pan.wordpress.com/just-what-was-so-amazing-about-jomon-japan/ways-of-the-jom
                                              on-world-2/a-hunting-we-will-go/examining-the-jomon-hunter-gathers-toolkit/
                                              >
                                              > I wouldn't have the foggiest idea where to find more information about it,
                                              though.
                                              >
                                              > ~ Asfridhr
                                              >





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Bryant Richards
                                              ... Yeah that s what we thought, but it was worth the shot, thanks to everyone!! In Honor and Service, Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu House Chiburi
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
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                                                >Not to my knowledge, sorry.

                                                Yeah that's what we thought, but it was worth the shot, thanks to everyone!!

                                                In Honor and Service,
                                                Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
                                                House Chiburi




                                                ________________________________
                                                From: wodeford <wodeford@...>
                                                To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 9:02:06 PM
                                                Subject: [SCA-JML] Re: Did the Japanese knit?


                                                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups .com, Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@ ...> wrote:

                                                > yeah we know about that, I actually do Kumihimo, she doesn't like the braiding, after it just makes cords, she was hoping there was something closer to kniting or crochet

                                                Not to my knowledge, sorry.

                                                Saionji no Hanae
                                                West Kingdom







                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Solveig Throndardottir
                                                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... How about basket weaving? Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
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                                                  Noble Cousin!

                                                  Greetings from Solveig!
                                                  > yeah we know about that, I actually do Kumihimo, she doesn't like
                                                  > the braiding, after it just makes cords, she was hoping there was
                                                  > something closer to kniting or crochet
                                                  How about basket weaving?

                                                  Your Humble Servant
                                                  Solveig Throndardottir
                                                  Amateur Scholar
                                                • Solveig Throndardottir
                                                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Tabi are made from woven cloth. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
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                                                    Noble Cousin!

                                                    Greetings from Solveig!
                                                    > How did they make socks (tabi) if they didn't knit? There's no
                                                    > evidence of anyone crochet to my knowledge later than the 1800s.
                                                    Tabi are made from woven cloth.

                                                    Your Humble Servant
                                                    Solveig Throndardottir
                                                    Amateur Scholar
                                                  • carriepalmer.geo
                                                    Well I m sorry I didn t know.
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Mar 15, 2010
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                                                      Well I'm sorry I didn't know.

                                                      --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Noble Cousin!
                                                      >
                                                      > Greetings from Solveig!
                                                      > > How did they make socks (tabi) if they didn't knit? There's no
                                                      > > evidence of anyone crochet to my knowledge later than the 1800s.
                                                      > Tabi are made from woven cloth.
                                                      >
                                                      > Your Humble Servant
                                                      > Solveig Throndardottir
                                                      > Amateur Scholar
                                                      >
                                                    • JL Badgley
                                                      On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:34 AM, carriepalmer.geo ... No need to apologize. FYI, most period socks or stockings I ve seen are actually not knitted. I know
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Mar 15, 2010
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                                                        On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:34 AM, carriepalmer.geo
                                                        <carriepalmer.geo@...> wrote:
                                                        > Well I'm sorry I didn't know.
                                                        >
                                                        No need to apologize.

                                                        FYI, most period socks or stockings I've seen are actually not
                                                        knitted. I know that weaving may not be what you're looking for, but
                                                        hirao (especially the early ones) are woven by hand, and might be
                                                        interesting. If I have time, I'll find some examples for you. There
                                                        are even some pretty cools ones where you weave with beads embedded in
                                                        the weave.

                                                        -Ii
                                                      • Chibasama Ryuichiro
                                                        I made a hat using some basket weaving techniques. I m sure it s not period, but with a little research, it might be something she enjoys. Live, Love, Learn!
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Mar 15, 2010
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                                                          I made a hat using some basket weaving techniques. I'm sure it's not
                                                          period, but with a little research, it might be something she enjoys.

                                                          Live, Love, Learn!
                                                          -Chiba


                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                                          Solveig Throndardottir
                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:39 PM
                                                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Did the Japanese knit?

                                                          Noble Cousin!

                                                          Greetings from Solveig!
                                                          > yeah we know about that, I actually do Kumihimo, she doesn't like
                                                          > the braiding, after it just makes cords, she was hoping there was
                                                          > something closer to kniting or crochet
                                                          How about basket weaving?

                                                          Your Humble Servant
                                                          Solveig Throndardottir
                                                          Amateur Scholar






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                                                        • JL Badgley
                                                          Found this online about knitting in Asia (at least in China), which really kind of surprised me in that they specifically claim it didn t come in until the
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Mar 15, 2010
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                                                            Found this online about knitting in Asia (at least in China), which
                                                            really kind of surprised me in that they specifically claim it didn't
                                                            come in until the 19th or 20th century.

                                                            http://knittingkninja.com/category/knitting-history/

                                                            Kind of surprising; I would have thought at least some nalbinding,
                                                            etc. might have made its way into the trade routes.

                                                            -Ii
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