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Re: [SCA-JML] what do u do when your freezing?

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  • sigrune@aol.com
    ... kisotos in fur. I do not know of a good site offhand for Japanese winter wear by period... However... First off it depends on the class you are protraying
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 5, 2010
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      >Pardon my interruption but dose anyone know of a sight I can go
      >and see what the Heian or Kamakura peirod people wore when
      >it was extreamly cold. I cant imagine them using a cloak. or fur.
      >tho at my last event I was seariously thinking of lining one of my
      kisotos in fur.

      I do not know of a good site offhand for Japanese winter wear by
      period... However...

      First off it depends on the class you are protraying at the time and
      what you are wearing as general clothing.

      If you were of the kuge, chances are you would be spending the majority
      of your time out of inclement weather,
      but in those rare times misfortune took you into it (or it was bitter
      enough to invade your space) Lined version of garments would be used
      first,
      Then quilted versions would be broken out... if it was still too cold,
      additional layers may be put on... In those instances though, the
      weather was clearly not auspicious and you would not be at any sort of
      social gathering... people would be tucked away in their homes and
      would pile on what they needed in privacy.

      If you were a member of the buke, again it would be a matter of
      layering up, men required to stand guard woudl simply layer up as well,
      However I suspect that in the capital sine even palace guards were of
      nobility, if the weather was bad enough they would go indoors and
      huddle up to a brazier.

      Commoners and non-courtiers would pretty much bundel up in as much
      quilted and lined version of normal garments as they could. These would
      be the only people outside in the cold doing work or needful tasks.
      They would limit their exposure as best as possible. If the weather
      was snowy/wet/rainy and cold a straw overcoat was worn... In the heavy
      snow areas of japan, straw boots, cloaks, and hats were heavily worn as
      the outer layer... Up in the north the form changed to an a-frame
      winter hat... these people looked like a thatched a-frame cottage on a
      haystack.

      With the winter weather we have been having here, I have been giving it
      much thought myself... And our views of weather are much different than
      historical views, worldwide. Because we have heated transport, good
      roads, telecommunications, electricity, and all the wonderful modern
      things.... We tend to go do "fun" things even when the weather is
      bad... historically people would stay home, even for general business
      stuff... while we go out in it, not just to work, but to socialize...
      This is not just true for ancient Japan but even in Europe... If it was
      too cold to wear normal attire, then it was too cold to do anything
      other than what was needful, and you did whatever it too to be needful.

      Comes down to, espcially for Heian and Kamakura, and very much for the
      aristocracy... If it is so cold you need to be wearing special clothes,
      you are most likely not participating in any social activity... The
      opposite side is your required to, and since your requierment is more
      important to how cold you are you do it however you can and don;t worry
      about what you look like... (IE wearing hakama stuffed with straw and
      wrapped with rags, and wearing 3 kosode and 3 hitatare)

      Myself, if it is so cold that an extra kosode and sweatpants under the
      hakama (not visable) are not gonna cut it, my Japanese clothing (and
      persona) tend to stay home and the European in me comes out to play.

      My intent is not to dissuade you from Japanese... quilted garments,
      linings and layers can go a long long way, but seriously if you are
      that cold that those period methods do not cut it, instead of doing
      someting anachronistic, try a different route for those instances (ie
      european with nice wool dresses and wool cloaks)

      -Takeda
    • Bryant Richards
      Well I just add layers underneath. Also you can remember that as far as the SCA is concerned you are a Japanese person in Europe, so you may have seen all the
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 5, 2010
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        Well I just add layers underneath. Also you can remember that as far as the SCA is concerned you are a Japanese person in Europe, so you may have seen all the Europeans wearing cloaks when it gets cold and bought one for yourself :)

        In Honor and Service,
        Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
        House Chiburi




        ________________________________
        From: Jeanel Walker <brytephyre@...>
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 12:14:49 PM
        Subject: [SCA-JML] what do u do when your freezing?


        parden my interruption but dose anyone know of a sight I can go and see what the Heian or Kamakura peirod people wore when it was extreamly cold. I cant imagine them using a cloak. or fur. tho at my last event I was seariously thinking of lining one of my kisotos in fur.

        Im all the way in the south and most of the time its extremely hot, however there are events during the cold weather season and its blows right through you to the bone.
        any info would me humbly appreciated

        Domo Artigato Goisamasu =)

        May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
        Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takinaga" of Kisimull
        http://i249. photobucket. com/albums/ gg208/brytephyre /Takinagadevises m.jpg
        http://i249. photobucket. com/albums/ gg208/brytephyre /Eilionoriadevic esm.jpg

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • barontakeda@yahoo.com
        Long Johns!! you can hide them under ANT garb! : ) sayanora, Baron Takeda Yoshinaka Seneschal, Barony of Nottinghill Coill ________________________________
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 5, 2010
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          Long Johns!! you can hide them under ANT garb! : )


          sayanora,
          Baron Takeda Yoshinaka
          Seneschal, Barony of Nottinghill Coill





          ________________________________
          From: Bryant Richards <ninjalikereflex@...>
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 5:30:24 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] what do u do when your freezing?


          Well I just add layers underneath. Also you can remember that as far as the SCA is concerned you are a Japanese person in Europe, so you may have seen all the Europeans wearing cloaks when it gets cold and bought one for yourself :)

          In Honor and Service,
          Uesugi no Ryujuichiro Uchiyasu
          House Chiburi

          ____________ _________ _________ __
          From: Jeanel Walker <brytephyre@yahoo. com>
          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups .com
          Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 12:14:49 PM
          Subject: [SCA-JML] what do u do when your freezing?

          parden my interruption but dose anyone know of a sight I can go and see what the Heian or Kamakura peirod people wore when it was extreamly cold. I cant imagine them using a cloak. or fur. tho at my last event I was seariously thinking of lining one of my kisotos in fur.

          Im all the way in the south and most of the time its extremely hot, however there are events during the cold weather season and its blows right through you to the bone.
          any info would me humbly appreciated

          Domo Artigato Goisamasu =)

          May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
          Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takinaga" of Kisimull
          http://i249. photobucket. com/albums/ gg208/brytephyre /Takinagadevises m.jpg
          http://i249. photobucket. com/albums/ gg208/brytephyre /Eilionoriadevic esm.jpg

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • wodeford
          This subject comes up repeatededly over on the Tousando Board: http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=garb&thread=1619&page=1
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 5, 2010
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            This subject comes up repeatededly over on the Tousando Board:
            http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=garb&thread=1619&page=1

            http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=garb&action=display&thread=1455&page=1

            My "informal" winter court kasane consists of a minimum of 8 robes, six of which are lined. I don't think I could be cold in it if I tried at an indoor event.

            As a practical matter, I regularly get through very cold desert nights at Estrella War in multiple layers of a later period style, usually a linen under-kosode, one or two silk layers over that, and, if necessary, a dofuku made of inauthentic upholstery jacquard with a flannel lining. Now, a dofuku is specifically a man's garment, but we may assume a loyal retainer insisted upon my wearing his. ;-D

            I may supplement this with a pair of silk long underwear - the ladies' kind give you a choice of a v-neck, which hides easily under wafuku. I also have found an online purveyor of fleece "tabi." The ivory ones are unobtrusive enough not to stick out like a sore thumb, especially once one cuts off the lime green brand tags.
            http://www.solsocks.com/styles.htm

            Saionji no Hanae
            West Kingdom
          • wodeford
            ... If I may, quilted usually refers to something in which the filling is held in place with stitching. All the translations I keep hitting describe winter
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 5, 2010
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              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@... wrote:

              > Then quilted versions would be broken out...
              If I may, "quilted" usually refers to something in which the filling is held in place with stitching. All the translations I keep hitting describe winter robes as padded rather than quilted. As far as I know, the padded robes available in period used a batting made of sticky silk known as mawata, which would stay put because of it's gummy qualities instead of needing quilt stitches to hold it in place. The technique known as sachiko is a much later development and originated as a way to strengthen peasant garments as opposed to holding a quilting fill in place.

              > We tend to go do "fun" things even when the weather is
              > bad... historically people would stay home, even for general business
              > stuff... while we go out in it, not just to work, but to socialize...
              There's a film called "The Sea Is Watching," about the women in a small village brothel. Set during the Edo period, there's a scene where they're all sitting around on an absolutely dead night with no customers, huddled around the hibachi because the weather's bad. Their evening is brightened by the appearance of an old man who comes to visit and drink tea, bearing treats, basically because he has no family and it's likely to be warmer at the pleasure house than at home.

              FWIW,
              Saionji no Hanae,
              West Kingdom
            • sigrune@aol.com
              Quote Takeda ... Quote Saionji ... small village brothel. ... around on an absolutely ... weather s bad. ... to visit and drink ... likely to be warmer at the
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 5, 2010
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                Quote Takeda
                >>We tend to go do "fun" things even when the weather is
                >>bad... historically people would stay home, even for general business
                >>stuff... while we go out in it, not just to work, but to socialize...

                Quote Saionji
                >There's a film called "The Sea Is Watching," about the women in a
                small village brothel.
                >Set during the Edo period, there's a scene where they're all sitting
                around on an absolutely
                >dead night with no customers, huddled around the hibachi because the
                weather's bad.
                >Their evening is brightened by the appearance of an old man who comes
                to visit and drink
                >tea, bearing treats, basically because he has no family and it's
                likely to be warmer at the
                >pleasure house than at home.

                That is a wonderful movie, I have it on DVD
                And while yes, we can read of people staying in residence with friends
                when weather is bad (or other excuses)
                in Heian era and doing fun activities to pass the time, These are
                exceptions to normal practice... There is always exceptions... But this
                was not the usual practice of the day... As I sit here now in my
                modern world, the Captial is shutting down since we are getting sacked
                with a blizzard. I feel a bout of poetry comming on...

                -Takeda
              • Tim McShane
                I seem to recall in one book I ve read, perhaps it was Japanese Inn, that the Japanese attitude was along the lines of in winter, one is supposed to be
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 6, 2010
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                  I seem to recall in one book I've read, perhaps it was "Japanese Inn," that
                  the Japanese attitude was along the lines of "in winter, one is supposed to
                  be cold."

                  - Shiro

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <sigrune@...>
                  To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 4:39 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: what do u do when your freezing?


                  Quote Takeda
                  >>We tend to go do "fun" things even when the weather is
                  >>bad... historically people would stay home, even for general business
                  >>stuff... while we go out in it, not just to work, but to socialize...

                  Quote Saionji
                  >There's a film called "The Sea Is Watching," about the women in a
                  small village brothel.
                  >Set during the Edo period, there's a scene where they're all sitting
                  around on an absolutely
                  >dead night with no customers, huddled around the hibachi because the
                  weather's bad.
                  >Their evening is brightened by the appearance of an old man who comes
                  to visit and drink
                  >tea, bearing treats, basically because he has no family and it's
                  likely to be warmer at the
                  >pleasure house than at home.

                  That is a wonderful movie, I have it on DVD
                  And while yes, we can read of people staying in residence with friends
                  when weather is bad (or other excuses)
                  in Heian era and doing fun activities to pass the time, These are
                  exceptions to normal practice... There is always exceptions... But this
                  was not the usual practice of the day... As I sit here now in my
                  modern world, the Captial is shutting down since we are getting sacked
                  with a blizzard. I feel a bout of poetry comming on...

                  -Takeda




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                  ----


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                  Checked by AVG.
                  Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1494 - Release Date: 10/06/2008
                  7:22 AM
                • Tim McShane
                  There is also a Zen story of a monk asking a master how to be unaffected by the temperature. The reply was to change your mind about how you regard the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 6, 2010
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                    There is also a Zen story of a monk asking a master how to be unaffected by
                    the temperature. The reply was to change your mind about how you regard the
                    temperature. "It's not too hot until it's so hot it kills you. It's not
                    too cold until it's so cold it kills you."

                    - Shiro

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <sigrune@...>
                    To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 4:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: what do u do when your freezing?


                    Quote Takeda
                    >>We tend to go do "fun" things even when the weather is
                    >>bad... historically people would stay home, even for general business
                    >>stuff... while we go out in it, not just to work, but to socialize...

                    Quote Saionji
                    >There's a film called "The Sea Is Watching," about the women in a
                    small village brothel.
                    >Set during the Edo period, there's a scene where they're all sitting
                    around on an absolutely
                    >dead night with no customers, huddled around the hibachi because the
                    weather's bad.
                    >Their evening is brightened by the appearance of an old man who comes
                    to visit and drink
                    >tea, bearing treats, basically because he has no family and it's
                    likely to be warmer at the
                    >pleasure house than at home.

                    That is a wonderful movie, I have it on DVD
                    And while yes, we can read of people staying in residence with friends
                    when weather is bad (or other excuses)
                    in Heian era and doing fun activities to pass the time, These are
                    exceptions to normal practice... There is always exceptions... But this
                    was not the usual practice of the day... As I sit here now in my
                    modern world, the Captial is shutting down since we are getting sacked
                    with a blizzard. I feel a bout of poetry comming on...

                    -Takeda




                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ----


                    Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
                    Checked by AVG.
                    Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1494 - Release Date: 10/06/2008
                    7:22 AM
                  • Deb Strub
                    As many have already replied if it s cold I put on more layers. Here in An Tir the weather can often surprise you regardless of the season so I prepare for all
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 6, 2010
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                      As many have already replied if it's cold I put on more layers.



                      Here in An Tir the weather can often surprise you regardless of the season
                      so I prepare for all eventualities. I was at a May Crown a number of years
                      ago when we got sun, wind, rain, sleet and snow all in one day.



                      I sometimes field herald and am sometimes EMIC which means I'm out in the
                      weather all day. For hot weather I wear minimum layers with a hat and
                      plenty of sunscreen. If I'm marshalling on the equestrian field I wear my
                      black low riding boots for safety reasons.



                      For cold weather I add layers and wear silk undies. If it's also raining I
                      wear my plain black clogs to keep my feet dry. They resemble the black
                      shoes worn with men's court wear so the look isn't too mundane.



                      YIS,



                      Tsuruko



                      _____

                      From: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sca-jml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      Jeanel Walker
                      Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 10:15 AM
                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [SCA-JML] what do u do when your freezing?





                      parden my interruption but dose anyone know of a sight I can go and see what
                      the Heian or Kamakura peirod people wore when it was extreamly cold. I cant
                      imagine them using a cloak. or fur. tho at my last event I was seariously
                      thinking of lining one of my kisotos in fur.

                      Im all the way in the south and most of the time its extremely hot, however
                      there are events during the cold weather season and its blows right through
                      you to the bone.
                      any info would me humbly appreciated

                      Domo Artigato Goisamasu =)

                      May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                      Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takinaga" of Kisimull
                      http://i249.
                      <http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg>
                      photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                      http://i249.
                      <http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg>
                      photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • wodeford
                      ... It is, after all, winter. ;-D I was inspired to pop The Sea Is Watching into the DVD player last night. (Lovely little movie, BTW.) Anyway, the girls of
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 6, 2010
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                        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Tim McShane" <mcshanet@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I seem to recall in one book I've read, perhaps it was "Japanese Inn," that
                        > the Japanese attitude was along the lines of "in winter, one is supposed to
                        > be cold."

                        It is, after all, winter. ;-D

                        I was inspired to pop "The Sea Is Watching" into the DVD player last night. (Lovely little movie, BTW.) Anyway, the girls of the house are sitting around the hibachi with a big futon quilt over their laps. Many of them have scarves around their necks, given the penchant for Edo-period prostitutes to show a lot of neck both front and back. The older client's excuse when he shows up is that his house is right on the river and very cold.

                        Then again, on a nice winter day, one might certainly go out and play in the snow. One of the Heian diaries (I can't recall at the moment if it's Sei Shonagon or Murasaki) describes the courtiers building a mountain of snow for fun in the palace garden. And one of my favorite screen paintings shows a group of people rolling large balls of snow in winter and throwing snowballs. A couple of the snowball warriors even use bucket covers as shields.

                        http://www.tnm.go.jp/gallery/search/images/max/C0022491.jpg

                        Brr, all those bare feet and legs are making me cold though!

                        Saionji no Hanae
                        West Kingdom
                      • Jeanel Walker
                        well I know I was fine in my 7 layered court dress one day in April till everyone keep saying man you got to be hot in that   I lasted almost all day then
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 6, 2010
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                          well I know I was fine in my 7 layered court dress one day in April till everyone keep saying "man you got to be hot in that"  I lasted almost all day then got too hot. I still think it was cause everyone keep saying it...but its a different matter when you are cold. Its harder to ignore.

                          May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                          Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takinaga" of Kisimull
                          http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                          http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


                          --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Tim McShane <mcshanet@...> wrote:

                          From: Tim McShane <mcshanet@...>
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: what do u do when your freezing?
                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 3:19 PM







                           









                          There is also a Zen story of a monk asking a master how to be unaffected by

                          the temperature. The reply was to change your mind about how you regard the

                          temperature. "It's not too hot until it's so hot it kills you. It's not

                          too cold until it's so cold it kills you."



                          - Shiro



                          ----- Original Message -----

                          From: <sigrune@aol. com>

                          To: <sca-jml@yahoogroups .com>

                          Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 4:39 PM

                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: what do u do when your freezing?



                          Quote Takeda

                          >>We tend to go do "fun" things even when the weather is

                          >>bad... historically people would stay home, even for general business

                          >>stuff... while we go out in it, not just to work, but to socialize...



                          Quote Saionji

                          >There's a film called "The Sea Is Watching," about the women in a

                          small village brothel.

                          >Set during the Edo period, there's a scene where they're all sitting

                          around on an absolutely

                          >dead night with no customers, huddled around the hibachi because the

                          weather's bad.

                          >Their evening is brightened by the appearance of an old man who comes

                          to visit and drink

                          >tea, bearing treats, basically because he has no family and it's

                          likely to be warmer at the

                          >pleasure house than at home.



                          That is a wonderful movie, I have it on DVD

                          And while yes, we can read of people staying in residence with friends

                          when weather is bad (or other excuses)

                          in Heian era and doing fun activities to pass the time, These are

                          exceptions to normal practice... There is always exceptions.. . But this

                          was not the usual practice of the day... As I sit here now in my

                          modern world, the Captial is shutting down since we are getting sacked

                          with a blizzard. I feel a bout of poetry comming on...



                          -Takeda



                          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                          ----



                          Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

                          Checked by AVG.

                          Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1494 - Release Date: 10/06/2008

                          7:22 AM

























                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ErinK
                          Multiple layers of silk can be great insulation, hot or cold! Fleece has been on sale recently and I m trying to go all Japanese at Gulf Wars, so I m thinking
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 7, 2010
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                            Multiple layers of silk can be great insulation, hot or cold!

                            Fleece has been on sale recently and I'm trying to go all Japanese at Gulf Wars, so I'm thinking of making a polarfleece layer for the chilly nights. Maybe a mid-thigh kosode that won't necessarily show but will add a little easy insulation.

                            I've also seen head scarves about the size of a modern tenugui, but not in any period sources so far. (It was the anime Mushi-shi, which is not even a historical drama but uses a lot of "old-timey" set dressing. It's at least a sense of what modern Japan thinks is traditional, but I certainly can't defend it beyond that!)

                            ERIN
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