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Documenting -E Suffix?

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  • Solveig Throndardottir
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Well, I wasn t able to find the -E suffix prior to 1600 during a quick run through of History of Japanese Feminine Names.
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig! Well, I wasn't able to find the -E suffix
      prior to 1600 during a quick run through of History of Japanese
      Feminine Names. What you need to do is obtain a copy of ISBN:
      4-336-04745-6 and find a type entry for -E prior to page 255. This
      book may be available in a local research library or through
      interlibrary loan. The book is in modern scholarly Japanese. As it
      stands, I can not currently recommend going with either Nori or Norie.

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar
    • booknerd9
      Hmn, I did find a Princess Oe (大江)on wikipedia.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_%C5%8Ce Also, as for the book, it is in a local
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
        Hmn, I did find a Princess Oe (大江)on wikipedia....
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_%C5%8Ce

        Also, as for the book, it is in a local university library but I don't think they let non-students/faculity use the library (i.e. look at a book)... I know some Japanese from college... how much does one need to know (i.e are the names listed or are they tucked into paragraphs?)

        --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
        >
        > Noble Cousin!
        >
        > Greetings from Solveig! Well, I wasn't able to find the -E suffix
        > prior to 1600 during a quick run through of History of Japanese
        > Feminine Names. What you need to do is obtain a copy of ISBN:
        > 4-336-04745-6 and find a type entry for -E prior to page 255. This
        > book may be available in a local research library or through
        > interlibrary loan. The book is in modern scholarly Japanese. As it
        > stands, I can not currently recommend going with either Nori or Norie.
        >
        > Your Humble Servant
        > Solveig Throndardottir
        > Amateur Scholar
        >
      • Solveig Throndardottir
        Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! There is a variety of documentable Japanese feminine names which do not require a suffix so you can avoid -ko, - hime,
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
          Noble Cousin!

          Greetings from Solveig! There is a variety of documentable Japanese
          feminine names which do not require a suffix so you can avoid -ko, -
          hime, -me entirely. For example, Midori (green) works all by itself
          if I recall correctly that is. There are also a bunch of animal names
          such as Inu (dog).

          Here are a bunch of farm girl names from the Momoyama period (late
          16th century) (ref. p. 243)
          Fuku, Osute, Sachi, Iwa, Otora, Okame, Omatsu, Oiwa.

          Note the O- prefix. This sort of thing really shows up during
          following Edo period.

          Here are some more names (ref. p. 233)
          Ai, Aya, Ia, Ishi, Ichi, Ito, Koito, Ima, Ima'aki, Iya, Uta, Kii,
          Kiku, Kita, Kiyaku, Kuri, Kou, Tau, Tama, Chiyo, Tomo, Natsu, Nishi,
          Nene, Haru, Higashi, Matsu, Muku, Mume (not a suffix), Riri.
          Akaka, Akoko, Agogo, Acha, Achacha, Ayamachi, Ayaya, Ichiya, Itoito,
          Inaka, Uba, kaka, Kurikaka, Koko, Koya, Sako, Sashi, Chii, Chibo,
          Chima Chiyaa, Chiyago, Chacha, Chiyobo, Yaya, Koyaya.

          Here are some more names (ref. p. 214)
          Ai, Aka, Akaka, Ako, Achachi, Achacha, Anene, Aya, Ayaya, Suzu,
          Chachi, Nyanya (yes your name can sound like a Japanese meow), Nene,
          Maa, Muma.

          Some more names (ref. p. 213)
          Ishi, Ichi, Inu, Inoko, Iha (Iwa), Uma, Kiku, Kuma, Koma, Saru, Sen,
          Tatsu, Toku, Tora, Nene, Hajime, Matsu, Muko.

          And some more names (ref. p. 186)
          Tora, Inu, Kuma, Matsu, Kiku, Chiyo, Sachi, Tsuru, Kame, Kusu, Oto,
          Waka, Chiyo, Kau, Iya.

          Historically, -me suffix names and -ko suffix names were not
          restricted to those with court rank above 5. Rather, there is plenty
          of evidence for their use by commoners during the Nanbokucho period
          if not earlier. I happen to be on a Nanbokucho period page at the
          moment. There are a whole bunch of -ko and -me names used by
          commoners during the Kamakura period listed on pages 166-167.

          I'm getting a bit pooped. I can come back with more names from the
          Heian period if you wish to be from the Heian period.

          If I recall correctly, NCMJ lists a number of feminine names which
          have been used since antiquity. These names were all taken from ISBN:
          4-336-04745-6.

          Your Humble Servant
          Solveig Throndardottir
          Amateur Scholar
        • booknerd9
          ... Ah, this is good information. Technically, if someone asks, I m Heian but considering I rarely dress up in the whole nine yards and run around in
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
            > Historically, -me suffix names and -ko suffix names were not
            > restricted to those with court rank above 5. Rather, there is plenty
            > of evidence for their use by commoners during the Nanbokucho period
            > if not earlier. I happen to be on a Nanbokucho period page at the
            > moment. There are a whole bunch of -ko and -me names used by
            > commoners during the Kamakura period listed on pages 166-167.

            Ah, this is good information. Technically, if someone asks, I'm "Heian" but considering I rarely dress up in the whole nine yards and run around in commoner garb...

            Thank you very much for your time and effort!
          • Solveig Throndardottir
            Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... It largely depends on how they control their stacks. Asking is the only way to find out. The names mostly appear in
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
              Noble Cousin!

              Greetings from Solveig!

              > Also, as for the book, it is in a local university library but I
              > don't think they let non-students/faculity use the library (i.e.
              > look at a book)... I know some Japanese from college... how much
              > does one need to know (i.e are the names listed or are they tucked
              > into paragraphs?)

              It largely depends on how they control their stacks. Asking is the
              only way to find out. The names mostly appear in lists with section
              headers which are sort of embedded in the text. So, it's kind of
              halfway in between. They are not necessarily in well organized tables
              and only some of them are provided with both kanji and furigana. Some
              are kana only and others are kanji only. It's still the best book on
              the subject of which I am aware. It was originally published in three
              volumes and later republished as a single volume. At its best, the
              book is broken into historical sections which are subdivided into
              type of name (posthumous, religious, arts, &c) which are subdivided
              by pattern (names of living things, -me names, -ko names, names from
              Buddhism, &c.)

              If you find something in this book (History of Japanese Feminine
              Names), you need to copy the copyright page and the page you are
              using for documentation purposes and provide some sort of translation/
              transliteration indicating where you got the information. That is a
              CoA requirement for using sources which aren't on the "no photocopy
              list".

              I really wasn't able to find a -e pattern in the thing during the
              last hour or so, but you may be more fortunate.

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar
            • Solveig Throndardottir
              Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Well, the book in question divides the Heian period up over chapters 5-8. Chapter 5 (early Heian), Chapter 6 (middle
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
                Noble Cousin!

                Greetings from Solveig! Well, the book in question divides the Heian
                period up over chapters 5-8. Chapter 5 (early Heian), Chapter 6
                (middle Heian part 1), Chapter 7 (middle Heian part 2), chapter 8
                (late Heian). Any particular preference?

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar
              • booknerd9
                Smack dab in the middle, I m afraid. But considering how attached I ve become to Nori-somethingsomething[1], if -ko is my only option, I can live with it. I
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
                  Smack dab in the middle, I'm afraid. But considering how attached I've become to Nori-somethingsomething[1], if -ko is my only option, I can live with it. I was using it for a while so if I switch back, no big deal.
                  The funny thing is, I switched to -e because Noriko sounded so modern (;


                  [1]It's the 典 kanji- how can I resist a name with the character for textbook?

                  --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Noble Cousin!
                  >
                  > Greetings from Solveig! Well, the book in question divides the Heian
                  > period up over chapters 5-8. Chapter 5 (early Heian), Chapter 6
                  > (middle Heian part 1), Chapter 7 (middle Heian part 2), chapter 8
                  > (late Heian). Any particular preference?
                  >
                  > Your Humble Servant
                  > Solveig Throndardottir
                  > Amateur Scholar
                  >
                • Solveig Throndardottir
                  Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! There was a big -ko revival sometime during the Meiji period or thereabouts. -子 names actually date to the Heian
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
                    Noble Cousin!

                    Greetings from Solveig! There was a big -ko revival sometime during
                    the Meiji period or thereabouts. -子 names actually date to the Heian
                    period. The only question is whether they take on'yomi or kun'yomi
                    readings for particular names. If on'yomi -SHI then you should expect
                    the root to also take on'yomi. -me names appear to be older than -ko
                    names. Anyway, -子 names seem modern mainly because there was a big
                    revival in their use about a hundred years or so ago. In the middle
                    Heian period there were these interesting -子賣 form names. On page
                    102, 角田 claims that 「×子」型 names should be read using
                    kun'yomi readings. At least that is what I think he is claiming. My
                    Japanese could be a lot lot better. Regardless, 「×子」names
                    appear to date from at least the mid-Heian period. Anyway, these
                    names show up among imperial princesses by the middle Heian period. I
                    suppose that they may have diffused downward from there. Regardless,
                    Tsunoda documents 「×子」names being used by commoners during the
                    middle Heian period as well as being used by imperial princesses
                    during the same period. See page 109 for use by commoners. Thanks to
                    poking through this section I ran into furigana for 「刀自」
                    Tsudoda believes that is should be read as "toji". That's a note to
                    myself.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar
                  • booknerd9
                    Thank you very much. Hopefully this information can help other people on the forum!
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
                      Thank you very much. Hopefully this information can help other people on the forum!
                    • James Eckman
                      ... Also check if they have a website, you can often find out this and other information there. It s also possible that they may sell library cards, if it s
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 20, 2010
                        > Posted by: "Solveig Throndardottir"
                        >
                        > Noble Cousin!
                        >
                        > Greetings from Solveig!
                        >
                        >
                        >> Also, as for the book, it is in a local university library but I
                        >> don't think they let non-students/faculity use the library (i.e.
                        >> look at a book)... I know some Japanese from college... how much
                        >> does one need to know (i.e are the names listed or are they tucked
                        >> into paragraphs?)
                        >>
                        >
                        > It largely depends on how they control their stacks. Asking is the
                        > only way to find out.
                        Also check if they have a website, you can often find out this and other
                        information there. It's also possible that they may sell library cards,
                        if it's local enough for you to visit often, this may be an option.

                        Jim
                      • Solveig Throndardottir
                        Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... These are excellent points. I have gotten access to the Harvard Yen- Ching Library by filling out a form at
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 20, 2010
                          Noble Cousins!

                          Greetings from Solveig!
                          > Also check if they have a website, you can often find out this and
                          > other
                          > information there. It's also possible that they may sell library
                          > cards,
                          > if it's local enough for you to visit often, this may be an option.
                          These are excellent points. I have gotten access to the Harvard Yen-
                          Ching Library by filling out a form at circulation. This allows me to
                          freely roam their stacks and read books inside the library. Cornell
                          University's library sells library privileges for $20.00 a month
                          which allows you to check books out of the library. I currently have
                          20 of their books sitting in a box near me.

                          Your Humble Servant
                          Solveig Throndardottir
                          Amateur Scholar
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