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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: My latest faux surihaku project can be seen here

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  • sigrune@aol.com
    Ah, as I noted (or meant to) no reputable source. While Secrets of the Samurai is an enjoyable read, I (and many others) do not consider Oscar Ratti s book a
    Message 1 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
      Ah, as I noted (or meant to) no reputable source.

      While Secrets of the Samurai is an enjoyable read, I (and many others)
      do not consider Oscar Ratti's book a reliable source.

      -Takeda

      -----Original Message-----
      From: marteenvanrosenveldt <kenshifencer@...>

      Tessen and the Yoshitsune legend. Reference is here:

      http://books.google.com/books?id=ZFf9e0DmHZUC&pg=PA302&lpg=PA302&dq=yoshitsune+benkei+tessen&source=bl&ots=rYGdELqmVf&sig=T_BM7z_-IE4EKRsvgHwCPJ5HPF0&hl=en&ei=bWxLS6ffG4-isgO20rT1Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBQQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=yoshitsune%20benkei%20tessen&f=false

      Unsourced on the page and I don't have my copy of Secrets of the
      Samurai at work.

      Benkei did become his loyal side-kick so maybe it's true. Or maybe it's
      like the ending of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, "When the legend
      becomes fact, print the legend".

      Marten
    • Anthony Bryant
      ... I rank this right up there with all those other massively bogus claims of antiquity and connections to famous dead people that so many martial arts have.
      Message 2 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
        On Jan 11, 2010, at 11:06 AM, JL Badgley wrote:

        >
        > I'd never heard the tessen connected to the Yoshitsune legend.
        >
        > Most tessenjutsu I've seen utilizes a solid parrying device /in the
        > shape of/ a closed fan. Not an iron ribbed fan.
        >

        I rank this right up there with all those other massively bogus claims
        of antiquity and connections to famous dead people that so many
        martial arts have.


        Effingham
      • Anthony Bryant
        ... The book s most valuable aspect is its ability to prop up an uneven table leg.
        Message 3 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
          On Jan 11, 2010, at 1:38 PM, sigrune@... wrote:

          > Ah, as I noted (or meant to) no reputable source.
          >
          > While Secrets of the Samurai is an enjoyable read, I (and many others)
          > do not consider Oscar Ratti's book a reliable source.
          >
          The book's most valuable aspect is its ability to prop up an uneven
          table leg.
        • wodeford
          ... Well, mine isn t perfect either. It helps to have a big enough pot to allow you to put the fabric in more or less straight, and a drip bucket to transfer
          Message 4 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
            --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@... wrote:
            > I tried that with a hitatare kamishimo combo, but had little luck and
            > made a right awful mess...

            Well, mine isn't perfect either. It helps to have a big enough pot to allow you to put the fabric in more or less straight, and a drip bucket to transfer it to wherever you're going to take it to hang dry.

            Dark colors frequently require a higher ratio of dye to water. The type of dye and how it reacts to the type of fiber can also affect results as we discovered while playing around with silk dyes and trying them on both silk and linen. We got purple on both, but completely different shades and saturation.

            I like the Jacquard acid dyes for silk because the most exotic additive required for the process is white cider vinegar.

            Saionji no Hanae
            West Kingdom
          • sigrune@aol.com
            Yeah, I was using Ritt dye... (I know I know) Had it with salt and vinagar and hot hot hot... can;t remember how many packs I used, but it was about 4 times
            Message 5 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
              Yeah, I was using Ritt dye... (I know I know)

              Had it with salt and vinagar and hot hot hot... can;t remember how
              many packs I used, but it was about 4 times the dye to water that was
              listed (wanted a nice dark portion)

              The idea was to make it over strong and then weaken it as I dipped it
              deeper each time to get a nice "fade" to white... not so spiff in
              execution (especially when I wound up splashing.... :sigh: well at
              elast it is bale enough to try again some day.... If I can find the
              darn thing

              -Takeda


              -----Original Message-----
              From: wodeford <wodeford@...>
              To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 4:34 pm
              Subject: [SCA-JML] Re:My latest faux surihaku project can be seen here




              --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@... wrote:
              > I tried that with a hitatare kamishimo combo, but had little luck and
              > made a right awful mess...

              Well, mine isn't perfect either. It helps to have a big enough pot to
              allow you to put the fabric in more or less straight, and a drip bucket
              to transfer it to wherever you're going to take it to hang dry.

              Dark colors frequently require a higher ratio of dye to water. The type
              of dye and how it reacts to the type of fiber can also affect results
              as we discovered while playing around with silk dyes and trying them on
              both silk and linen. We got purple on both, but completely different
              shades and saturation.

              I like the Jacquard acid dyes for silk because the most exotic additive
              required for the process is white cider vinegar.

              Saionji no Hanae
              West Kingdom
            • wodeford
              ... Rit claims to dye everything. However, everything that the average consumer is likely to want to dye these days tends to be cotton. Some folks say
              Message 6 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
                --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@... wrote:
                >
                > Yeah, I was using Ritt dye... (I know I know)
                Rit claims to dye everything. However, "everything" that the average consumer is likely to want to dye these days tends to be cotton. Some folks say they've gotten good results with it, for what it's worth.

                > The idea was to make it over strong and then weaken it as I dipped it
                > deeper each time to get a nice "fade" to white...

                Actually, all you need to get the dip-dye effect on silk (which is very happy to take dye at any saturation) is to put the fabric in as far as you want before you get to the area you want to reserve as white and then start pulling it back out of the dye bath gradually.

                For other fibers, you might need to prepare multiple containers at different strengths and add them to the dyepot as you gradually raise the fabric, as described here.
                http://www.dharmatrading.com/info/ombre.html

                Rit, unsurprisingly, suggests you overdye using multiple colors.
                http://www.ritdye.com/Ombre_or_Shadow_Dyeing.37.lasso

                Saionji no Hanae
              • Solveig Throndardottir
                Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Secrets of the Samurai is the only source for documenting tessenjutsu of which I am aware. This book is not a
                Message 7 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
                  Noble Cousin!

                  Greetings from Solveig! "Secrets of the Samurai" is the only "source"
                  for documenting "tessenjutsu" of which I am aware. This book is not a
                  reliable source. "Tessenjutsu" does not appear as an entry in my
                  large economy size J-J dictionary. As for "Secrets of the Samurai",
                  it also claims that unarmed adepts can kill armed opponents simply by
                  yelling at them. Stuff and nonsense.

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar
                • Solveig Throndardottir
                  Baron Edward! Greetings from Solveig! ... I believe that it s also reasonably good for starting fires and as nesting material for mice. Your Humble Servant
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
                    Baron Edward!

                    Greetings from Solveig!
                    > The book's most valuable aspect is its ability to prop up an uneven
                    > table leg.
                    I believe that it's also reasonably good for starting fires and as
                    nesting material for mice.

                    Your Humble Servant
                    Solveig Throndardottir
                    Amateur Scholar
                  • Jeanel Walker
                    claims that unarmed adepts can kill armed opponents simply by yelling at them. Stuff and nonsense. I suppose that would depend on how bad there breath is
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
                      "claims that unarmed adepts can kill armed opponents simply by

                      yelling at them. Stuff and nonsense."

                      I suppose that would depend on how bad there breath is
                      mmmm. did i say that out loud?
                      sorry domo domo
                      I could not help myself
                      May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!
                      Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takinaga" of Kisimull
                      http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg
                      http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg


                      --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:

                      From: Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...>
                      Subject: [SCA-JML] Tessenjutsu BAH! HUMBUG!
                      To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:00 PM







                       









                      Noble Cousin!



                      Greetings from Solveig! "Secrets of the Samurai" is the only "source"

                      for documenting "tessenjutsu" of which I am aware. This book is not a

                      reliable source. "Tessenjutsu" does not appear as an entry in my

                      large economy size J-J dictionary. As for "Secrets of the Samurai",

                      it also claims that unarmed adepts can kill armed opponents simply by

                      yelling at them. Stuff and nonsense.



                      Your Humble Servant

                      Solveig Throndardottir

                      Amateur Scholar

























                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Anthony Bryant
                      ... It is, indeed. Also, if one has parrots.... Effingham
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
                        On Jan 11, 2010, at 11:08 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote:

                        > Baron Edward!
                        >
                        > Greetings from Solveig!
                        > > The book's most valuable aspect is its ability to prop up an uneven
                        > > table leg.
                        >
                        > I believe that it's also reasonably good for starting fires and as
                        > nesting material for mice.
                        >

                        It is, indeed. Also, if one has parrots....


                        Effingham
                      • Brian Dean
                        I have that book, and while some info is reliable in there,, some is total hogwash... some sections gave me a good laugh. Hirotora To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jan 11, 2010
                          I have that book, and while some info is reliable in there,, some is total hogwash... some sections gave me a good laugh.

                          Hirotora




                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                          From: brytephyre@...
                          Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:13:08 -0800
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Tessenjutsu BAH! HUMBUG!




























                          "claims that unarmed adepts can kill armed opponents simply by



                          yelling at them. Stuff and nonsense."



                          I suppose that would depend on how bad there breath is

                          mmmm. did i say that out loud?

                          sorry domo domo

                          I could not help myself

                          May the joy of your past be the worst of your tomorrows!!!

                          Jeanel Walker aka Eilionora "Takinaga" of Kisimull

                          http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Takinagadevisesm.jpg

                          http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg208/brytephyre/Eilionoriadevicesm.jpg



                          --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:



                          From: Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...>

                          Subject: [SCA-JML] Tessenjutsu BAH! HUMBUG!

                          To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com

                          Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:00 PM







                          Noble Cousin!



                          Greetings from Solveig! "Secrets of the Samurai" is the only "source"



                          for documenting "tessenjutsu" of which I am aware. This book is not a



                          reliable source. "Tessenjutsu" does not appear as an entry in my



                          large economy size J-J dictionary. As for "Secrets of the Samurai",



                          it also claims that unarmed adepts can kill armed opponents simply by



                          yelling at them. Stuff and nonsense.



                          Your Humble Servant



                          Solveig Throndardottir



                          Amateur Scholar



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
                          http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • William Giltner
                          Oh My    I suppose next you ll claim Tengu dont exist....   Or teach swordsmanship....
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jan 12, 2010
                            Oh My
                               I suppose next you'll claim Tengu dont exist....
                              Or teach swordsmanship....

                                                                                                                   ;o)

                            William S. Giltner

                            Lrd Tatsuo Okami

                            Iron River Armoury

                            www.iron-river-armoury.com

                            --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:

                            From: Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...>
                            Subject: [SCA-JML] Tessenjutsu BAH! HUMBUG!
                            To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:00 PM







                             









                            Noble Cousin!



                            Greetings from Solveig! "Secrets of the Samurai" is the only "source"

                            for documenting "tessenjutsu" of which I am aware. This book is not a

                            reliable source. "Tessenjutsu" does not appear as an entry in my

                            large economy size J-J dictionary. As for "Secrets of the Samurai",

                            it also claims that unarmed adepts can kill armed opponents simply by

                            yelling at them. Stuff and nonsense.



                            Your Humble Servant

                            Solveig Throndardottir

                            Amateur Scholar

























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • sekinakagawa@aol.com
                            That s nice! To ask a question, may be a moments shame, but not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame. In a message dated 1/10/2010 10:12:58 A.M.
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jan 15, 2010
                              That's nice!

                              To ask a question, may be a moments shame,
                              but not to ask and remain ignorant, is a life long shame.


                              In a message dated 1/10/2010 10:12:58 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                              wodeford@... writes:




                              The green silk is courtesy of the generosity of Ii Saburou Katsumori and
                              Abe Akirakeiko. The motif was inspired by a tsuba by Hayashi Matashichi that
                              was part of the Lords of the Samurai exhibit at San Francisco's Asian Art
                              Museum this summer.
                              _http://www.miho.http://www.mhttp://www.mhttp://wwwhtt_
                              (http://www.miho.or.jp/booth/html/artcon/00003274e.htm)

                              The white sayagata silk was purchased on eBay some time back and hand dyed
                              at home with Jacquard Acid Dye #606 Deep Orange. The dye wicked somewhat
                              unevenly during the drying process, so it's not perfect, but I'm still
                              fairly pleased with the result.

                              _http://www.flickr.http://www.http://wwhttp://www.flic_
                              (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70104978@N00/4262000508/)

                              _http://www.flickr.http://www.http://wwhttp://www.flic_
                              (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70104978@N00/4261247335/)

                              _http://www.flickr.http://www.http://wwhttp://www.flic_
                              (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70104978@N00/4236311898/)

                              _http://www.flickr.http://www.http://wwhttp://www.flic_
                              (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70104978@N00/4204315971/)

                              Please ignore the immodest lack of under kosode that was the result of a
                              shiftless retainer having forgotten to pack it. Fortunately, these odd
                              barbarians among whom I must travel did not know the difference.

                              Saionji no Hanae
                              West Kingdom






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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